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Message no. 1
From: stevenhad@*****.co.uk (Steve)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:13:56 +0000 (GMT)
This is bit the players love, where they get to
profit out of all those nice guns you shot at them
with on the run!
The rules cover the amount you get pretty well, but
they don't make something clear - do you include
street index in the total amount they get a percentage
of?
There is a compelling argument for this, but it can
make a BIG difference with some things, especially
magical kit like weapon foci.

Steve

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Message no. 2
From: Number_10_Ox@**********.com (Number Ten)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:32:21 -0800 (PST)
--- Steve <stevenhad@*****.co.uk> wrote:
> This is bit the players love, where they get to
> profit out of all those nice guns you shot at them
> with on the run!
> The rules cover the amount you get pretty well, but
> they don't make something clear - do you include
> street index in the total amount they get a percentage
> of?

Yes, you do. I don't remember where it says that, but it does. The fence
will go by what a bang-bang will fetch on the street, not what it goes for
in the latest Ares catalog.

> There is a compelling argument for this, but it can
> make a BIG difference with some things, especially
> magical kit like weapon foci.

Yes it can. Which is why you should make them sweat and bleed for things
like weapon foci as loot.

> Steve

--Elliot

====number_10_ox@**********.com
"I'm out of my mind... but feel free to leave me a message!"

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Message no. 3
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:17:13 +0100
According to Steve, on Tue, 21 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> This is bit the players love, where they get to
> profit out of all those nice guns you shot at them
> with on the run!

For a moment, I thought you were going to ask about the fencing you do with
rapiers :)

> The rules cover the amount you get pretty well, but
> they don't make something clear - do you include
> street index in the total amount they get a percentage
> of?

I've always included street index, for the simple reason that the fixer
will sell on the street, so if you don't include it the fixer could be
making a loss for items with a very low SI.

OTOH, this way does allow characters to make a decent amount of money the
moment start the game: at character generation, buy nothing but gear that
has a Street Index higher than 3.3, and sell it once you're in the game :)
Trauma patches are a good investment: their Availability is less than 8, so
for the investment of a mere million, you'll get 1.2 million in return.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: paul@*********.demon.co.uk (Paul Squires)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:39:35 +0000
In message <03012119171300.00922@***************>, Gurth
<Gurth@******.nl> writes
>OTOH, this way does allow characters to make a decent amount of money the
>moment start the game: at character generation, buy nothing but gear that
>has a Street Index higher than 3.3, and sell it once you're in the game :)
>Trauma patches are a good investment: their Availability is less than 8, so
>for the investment of a mere million, you'll get 1.2 million in return.
>
Assuming decent negotiation skills and the right contacts. Even then a
20% increase isn't brilliant and I'd expect greater ROI by shadowrunning
(although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced skills
and attributes by taking Y1m resources...
--
Paul Squires
paul@*********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: gte138j@****.gatech.edu (Jeff Stewart)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:37:06 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Paul Squires wrote:

> Assuming decent negotiation skills and the right contacts. Even then a
> 20% increase isn't brilliant and I'd expect greater ROI by shadowrunning
> (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced skills
> and attributes by taking Y1m resources...

Not to mention that you'd be paying street prices for all the gear you
DO want to buy, which means your 1.2 mil is now only worth like
500k.

Jeff Stewart |
Email: gte138j@****.gatech.edu | Post no bills
Message no. 6
From: stevenhad@*****.co.uk (Steve)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:18:48 +0000 (GMT)
--- Paul Squires <paul@*********.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <03012119171300.00922@***************>,
> Gurth
> <Gurth@******.nl> writes
> >OTOH, this way does allow characters to make a
> decent amount of money the
> >moment start the game: at character generation, buy
> nothing but gear that
> >has a Street Index higher than 3.3, and sell it
> once you're in the game :)
> >Trauma patches are a good investment: their
> Availability is less than 8, so
> >for the investment of a mere million, you'll get
> 1.2 million in return.
> >
> Assuming decent negotiation skills and the right
> contacts. Even then a
> 20% increase isn't brilliant and I'd expect greater
> ROI by shadowrunning
> (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also
> have reduced skills
> and attributes by taking Y1m resources...
> --
> Paul Squires
> paul@*********.demon.co.uk
>

But when a PC dies leaving all his kit to his PC
brother...
Especially when a part of that kit is a rating 6
Weapon Focus! (Dead brother: Phys Ad, Live brother
Street Sam - what does he need a weapon focus for?)
Arrgghhh!
Knew it was a mistake to let a family in...
But this kind of thing is a problem in any party where
a PC dies and the of the party is unwilling to ~Y1m
lying rotting in the street.

Steve

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:49:58 +0100
According to Paul Squires, on Tue, 21 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> > Trauma patches are a good investment: their Availability
> > is less than 8, so for the investment of a mere million, you'll get 1.2
> > million in return.
>
> Assuming decent negotiation skills and the right contacts.

Neither should be a problem.

> Even then a 20% increase isn't brilliant

Maybe not in normal business, but it seems to me that a 20% increase is
still better than a 0% increase in most businessmen's eyes.

> and I'd expect greater ROI by shadowrunning
> (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced skills
> and attributes by taking Y1m resources...

That is very true, and the real snag is that you probably will end up
paying more money -- many characters taking a million nuyen starting cash
do so because they can buy lots of cyberware with it. They still can with
this approach, but will have to pay surgery costs as well...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:50:50 +0100
According to Jeff Stewart, on Wed, 22 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> Not to mention that you'd be paying street prices for all the gear you
> DO want to buy, which means your 1.2 mil is now only worth like
> 500k.

That is not entirely true. If you buy lots of stuff with Street Index <= 1,
you can end up with even more starting money's worth of gear.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:33:59 +0000
At 08:18 AM 22/1/2003, Steve wrote:
>But when a PC dies leaving all his kit to his PC
>brother...

That's know around here as Inneago Montoya Syndrome, (as in "The Princess
Bride") it's banned in every group I know of and I certainly come down very
hard on it.


--
Lone Eagle
"My name is Inneago Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 10
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:41:06 +0000
At 09:49 AM 22/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
> > (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced skills
> > and attributes by taking Y1m resources...
>
>That is very true, and the real snag is that you probably will end up
>paying more money -- many characters taking a million nuyen starting cash
>do so because they can buy lots of cyberware with it. They still can with
>this approach, but will have to pay surgery costs as well...

But it does give them potential access to Betaware (IIRC not available at
Character creation, certainly not in my games).
Of course if it's profit you're after you're better off buying high
electronics skills and some heavy electronics tools then spend your time
making maglock passkeys and such :-)


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 11
From: paul@*********.demon.co.uk (Paul Squires)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:31:12 +0000
In message <5.1.1.6.0.20030122183529.0283c690@www.wyrmtalk.co.uk>;, Lone
Eagle <loneeagle@********.co.uk> writes
>At 09:49 AM 22/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
>> > (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced skills
>> > and attributes by taking Y1m resources...
>>
>>That is very true, and the real snag is that you probably will end up
>>paying more money -- many characters taking a million nuyen starting cash
>>do so because they can buy lots of cyberware with it. They still can with
>>this approach, but will have to pay surgery costs as well...
>
>But it does give them potential access to Betaware (IIRC not available
>at Character creation, certainly not in my games).
>Of course if it's profit you're after you're better off buying high
>electronics skills and some heavy electronics tools then spend your
>time making maglock passkeys and such :-)

It's amazing quite how many Y1m characters die in the first session,
followed closely by salvage ops by the team-mates then the sudden
appearance of a new colleague :)
--
Paul Squires
paul@*********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 12
From: SteveG@***********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:24:29 +0200
> Lone Eagle wrote:
> >At 09:49 AM 22/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
> >> > (although it is a lower risk strategy!), you'd also have reduced
> >> > skills and attributes by taking Y1m resources...
> >>
> >>That is very true, and the real snag is that you probably
> will end up
> >>paying more money -- many characters taking a million nuyen
> starting
> >>cash do so because they can buy lots of cyberware with it.
> They still
> >>can with this approach, but will have to pay surgery costs
> as well...
> >
> >But it does give them potential access to Betaware (IIRC not
> available
> >at Character creation, certainly not in my games).
> >Of course if it's profit you're after you're better off buying high
> >electronics skills and some heavy electronics tools then spend your
> >time making maglock passkeys and such :-)

What about the fact that most GMs probably wouldn't allow you to engineer
something like this? I certainly wouldn't, since starting gear/cash is
supposed to represent what you've acquired throughout the years prior to the
beginning of the campaign. I would definitely categorize this sort of
behavior as disturbingly munchkin-like.


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon


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Message no. 13
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:43:53 +0100
According to Lone Eagle, on Wed, 22 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> That's know around here as Inneago Montoya Syndrome, (as in "The Princess
> Bride") it's banned in every group I know of and I certainly come down
> very hard on it.

One of my players stated a couple of times that he wanted to do that, once.
It never came to it, but I did make it clear I was firmly against it, too.

That said, I did once allow a PC to take over another dead PC's car --
luckily, the next adventure I had planned was Counterstroke, from the
original Harlequin, and the PC decided to drive his "new" car to it...
*EGMG*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:45:47 +0100
According to Lone Eagle, on Wed, 22 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> But it does give them potential access to Betaware (IIRC not available at
> Character creation, certainly not in my games).
> Of course if it's profit you're after you're better off buying high
> electronics skills and some heavy electronics tools then spend your time
> making maglock passkeys and such :-)

Nah. If you really want to make a profit, what you need is enchanting gear
and raw materials to make orichalcum. This is better than printing your own
money, because it's legal :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrun@********.net (Augustus)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:45:17 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <stevenhad@*****.co.uk>
>
> But when a PC dies leaving all his kit to his PC
> brother...
> Especially when a part of that kit is a rating 6
> Weapon Focus!

In Shadowrun, I only had this come up once where the PC who died was a
decker... and the replacement PC, also a decker, hired on shows up to join
the team without a cyberdeck or any programs...

One of the PCs was abit greedy and made sure to grab the old deck and
software of the dead PC and sell it off before the new guy joined in... the
new character, who took practically no resources off the start (presuming he
would get all the dead PCs gear and thusly allocating all points to
attributes and skills) started a long argument (lasting many game sessions)
about how impractical it would be to hire on a decker and yet sell off all
the old PCs loot, instead of saving it for the new guy.

But in fantasy gaming (D&D or otherwise) alot of players seem to presume
that the new character taking the other ones place is entitled to the now
dead PCs stuff... even if its nothing related to his current class
(remembering an incident where a druid died... the new guy was a
fighter/thief who after the party wouldn't fork over the dead guy's druid
stuff decided to attack them)

For the most part, I let players know that their new characters are
independant of other characters... with real trouble players I even tell
them that they can't even pick the same race/class/skillset of the previous
character (some are ok, but I've had players who just took an eraser to
their Shadowrun character sheet and remove all the stat and skill
increases... coming back with a photocopy of the original guy).

The only time I every really pulled the "Evil GM" thing was when I was
running WHFRP and one PC died... the rest of the players, upon hiring a new
guy, gave him everything the old guy had... even a couple of really good
magic items. During the new guys watch that night I told the party that
when they wake up in the morning they find the new guy took off with all the
stuff they gave him and the groups horses... The player asked "Why would I
do that?" and I just said "You? No, your character is off in the next city
still, looking over the "help wanted" posters and trying to find a group to
hire on with... this was somebody else"
Message no. 16
From: paul@*********.demon.co.uk (Paul Squires)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:41:12 +0000
In message <003b01c2c320$59511110$3a8457d1@****>, Augustus
<shadowrun@********.net> writes
<snip>
>But in fantasy gaming (D&D or otherwise) alot of players seem to presume
>that the new character taking the other ones place is entitled to the now
>dead PCs stuff... even if its nothing related to his current class
>(remembering an incident where a druid died... the new guy was a
>fighter/thief who after the party wouldn't fork over the dead guy's druid
>stuff decided to attack them)

I think in fantasy games there is much more of a notion of "party
treasure". Magical items will be found and "assigned" to the person with
most need, or greatest benefit and they're quite happy sharing the gold.
I don't see this in SR - characters hoard their own money and equipment
a lot more. It's possibly a style issue, but I think SR (and all
future/modern games) are a lot more equipment led than fantasy games.
There's also much more of a team spirit in traditional fantasy - SR can
be very individual sometimes - contacts, astral planes, matrix all
separate the characters.

>The only time I every really pulled the "Evil GM" thing was when I was
>running WHFRP and one PC died... the rest of the players, upon hiring a new
>guy, gave him everything the old guy had... even a couple of really good
>magic items. During the new guys watch that night I told the party that
>when they wake up in the morning they find the new guy took off with all the
>stuff they gave him and the groups horses... The player asked "Why would I
>do that?" and I just said "You? No, your character is off in the next city
>still, looking over the "help wanted" posters and trying to find a group to
>hire on with... this was somebody else"

WHFRP is still my favourite game to run - I think the key with that game
is that magic items are *very* rare. I don't recall any of the PCs ever
having more than one magic item - I'd probably persuade the existing
characters to split anything like that (no guarantees that they'd know
about the items though) rather than give it the new guy.

--
Paul Squires
paul@*********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 17
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:28:19 +0000
At 10:41 PM 23/1/2003, Paul wrote:
>I think in fantasy games there is much more of a notion of "party
>treasure". Magical items will be found and "assigned" to the person
with
>most need, or greatest benefit and they're quite happy sharing the gold. I
>don't see this in SR - characters hoard their own money and equipment a
>lot more. It's possibly a style issue, but I think SR (and all
>future/modern games) are a lot more equipment led than fantasy games.
>There's also much more of a team spirit in traditional fantasy - SR can be
>very individual sometimes - contacts, astral planes, matrix all separate
>the characters.

I love that about SR though, the planning phase (especially if the Johnson
is willing to allow the 'runners to "requisition" equipment.
I can leave the group pondering what they're going to want to do the job,
how to get around this security measure or that security measure. Which or
those pieces of equipment they have, which they have handy and what they're
going to try to requisition... And then I can totally deflate them by
making one simple piece of kit that they "knew" they'd get unavailable,
(not totally unavailable just that whoever's providing the equipment hasn't
got one (until he digs around a bit.))

>WHFRP is still my favourite game to run - I think the key with that game
>is that magic items are *very* rare. I don't recall any of the PCs ever
>having more than one magic item - I'd probably persuade the existing
>characters to split anything like that (no guarantees that they'd know
>about the items though) rather than give it the new guy.

I love the game, where else is there a fantasy game where if you walk
between town A and town B you arrive wet and covered in mud, where you get
ill (in the basic rules), where wounds get infected and insanity is
something you have to deal with.
And if you do go mad, they don't cast Cure Disease on you... No, leeches
and hot pokers are the order of the day.
Most fantasy settings are modern settings where magic replaces technology,
WFRP isn't.

I have to say that I've allowed a magic item hand out like that, and
existing character was thrown together with a bunch of new ones (new group
IRL) and gave his "Simple Sword" to the ex-marine character, he was what
you'd call a front rank fighter and made it clear that it was just a loan so...


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 18
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:48:48 +0100
According to Augustus, on Thu, 23 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> One of the PCs was abit greedy and made sure to grab the old deck and
> software of the dead PC and sell it off before the new guy joined in...

That, I have no real problem with. The surviving PC can do pretty much
anything they want with the gear they have of the dead PC; it's wholesale
"inheriting" of "everything my last character owned" that I don't
agree
with, though.

> But in fantasy gaming (D&D or otherwise) alot of players seem to presume
> that the new character taking the other ones place is entitled to the now
> dead PCs stuff...

Maybe I've taught mine the "SR way" a bit too well, because they never seem
to do this in fantasy games, either. Of course, that could be because
characters usually die with all their equipment on them, in the middle of a
horde of enemies... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: moe@*******.com (Allen Versfeld)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:02:05 +0200
Lone Eagle wrote:

> I love the game, where else is there a fantasy game where if you walk
> between town A and town B you arrive wet and covered in mud, where you
> get ill (in the basic rules), where wounds get infected and insanity is
> something you have to deal with.
> And if you do go mad, they don't cast Cure Disease on you... No, leeches
> and hot pokers are the order of the day.
> Most fantasy settings are modern settings where magic replaces
> technology, WFRP isn't.
>

This sounds great... but what is it? What does WFRP stand for?
Message no. 20
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:39:17 -0800
> Lone Eagle wrote:
>
> > I love the game, where else is there a fantasy game where if you walk
> > between town A and town B you arrive wet and covered in mud, where you
> > get ill (in the basic rules), where wounds get infected and insanity is
> > something you have to deal with.
> > And if you do go mad, they don't cast Cure Disease on you... No, leeches
>
> > and hot pokers are the order of the day.
> > Most fantasy settings are modern settings where magic replaces
> > technology, WFRP isn't.
> >
>
> This sounds great... but what is it? What does WFRP stand for?
[Valeu John EMFA]

Warhammer Fantasy Role-Playing.
Message no. 21
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:23:21 +0100
According to Allen Versfeld, on Fri, 24 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> > Most fantasy settings are modern settings where magic replaces
> > technology, WFRP isn't.
>
> This sounds great... but what is it? What does WFRP stand for?

Like John said, it stands for Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play. It's the RPG set
in the Warhammer fantasy world (not 40K), and used to be published by Games
Workshop. The current publisher is Hogshead; http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk
it says in my copy of Violence.

Though I don't own a copy (it's on my "things to buy when I have enough money
I don't know what else to do with" list ;) the mechanics are rather clunky
and old-fashioned, but apparently the setting is very good. Many British
roleplayers seem to think a certain set of adventures (I wish I could
remember the name) published for it is the best ever written, for example.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:50:03 +0000
At 06:23 PM 24/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
>Like John said, it stands for Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play. It's the RPG set
>in the Warhammer fantasy world (not 40K), and used to be published by Games
>Workshop. The current publisher is Hogshead; http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk
>it says in my copy of Violence.
>
>Though I don't own a copy (it's on my "things to buy when I have enough money
>I don't know what else to do with" list ;) the mechanics are rather clunky
>and old-fashioned, but apparently the setting is very good. Many British
>roleplayers seem to think a certain set of adventures (I wish I could
>remember the name) published for it is the best ever written, for example.

Either "The Enemy Within" campaign or the Doomstones campaign, I'd guess
the former but I've not run the Doomstones so I couldn't tell you for sure.

The whole world setting is great IMO
I especially like the way the PCs, the party ride through a razed village,
as PCs often do they stop to check it out. What's responsible, Orcs? Nasty
evil things? In fact it's more likely to have been a Witch Hunter, a good guy.
The whole game is based in the shades of grey. Somewhat like Shadowrun
really :D


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 23
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:10:47 +0100
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>

> According to Allen Versfeld, on Fri, 24 Jan 2003 the word on
the street was...
>
> > This sounds great... but what is it? What does WFRP stand
for?
>
> Like John said, it stands for Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play. It's
the RPG set
> in the Warhammer fantasy world (not 40K), and used to be
published by Games
> Workshop. The current publisher is Hogshead;
http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk
> it says in my copy of Violence.

Not any more, GW has taken back the license to WFRP. According to
Hogsheads homepage they have lost a lot of their licenses.

Lars
Message no. 24
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:07:13 +0100
According to Lone Eagle, on Fri, 24 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> Either "The Enemy Within" campaign or the Doomstones campaign, I'd guess
> the former but I've not run the Doomstones so I couldn't tell you for
> sure.

That's the one, yes (Enemy Within, I mean).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 25
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:59:23 +0000
At 10:07 AM 25/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
> > Either "The Enemy Within" campaign or the Doomstones campaign, I'd
guess
> > the former but I've not run the Doomstones so I couldn't tell you for
> > sure.
>
>That's the one, yes (Enemy Within, I mean).

Yes, it is rather good.

Plus because a lot of the names have a German flavour there are NPCs in
there along the same lines as the Baron's Intelligence Officer in Harlequin.

If I'm the only one who only scanned her name in the prep and then cracked
up trying to tell the players then ignore me :D


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 26
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 19:11:09 +0100
According to Lone Eagle, on Sat, 25 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> Yes, it is rather good.

I'll take your word for it, then :)

> Plus because a lot of the names have a German flavour there are NPCs in
> there along the same lines as the Baron's Intelligence Officer in
> Harlequin.

Goldi Schonbosom?

> If I'm the only one who only scanned her name in the prep and then
> cracked up trying to tell the players then ignore me :D

I think my players found it funny, but not because any of them caught the
alledged reference to a WFRP adventure...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 27
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:04:00 +0000
At 06:11 PM 25/1/2003, Gurth wrote:
> > Plus because a lot of the names have a German flavour there are NPCs in
> > there along the same lines as the Baron's Intelligence Officer in
> > Harlequin.
>
>Goldi Schonbosom?

That's the one.

> > If I'm the only one who only scanned her name in the prep and then
> > cracked up trying to tell the players then ignore me :D
>
>I think my players found it funny, but not because any of them caught the
>alledged reference to a WFRP adventure...

It's not a reference, it's a similarity.
Everyone round the table had a smattering of German so we all made the
translation fairly quickly.
But there are names in WFRP adventures which have the same sort of humour
behind them. I can't think of any quite as blatant off the top of my head
but for example a nobleman's wife staying in a hotel with her lover might
be checked in to a hotel room under the names Mr & Mrs Johann Shmidt. A mad
scientist is named Kugelschriber...

For those on the list who speak no German I'll list something like a
translation:
Goldie Schonbosom - Goldi Great-T*ts
Kugelschriber - Ballscrew, Screwball

* blanked to keep it vaguely PG-13


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 28
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 11:02:54 +0100
According to Lone Eagle, on Sat, 25 Jan 2003 the word on the street was...

> >I think my players found it funny, but not because any of them caught
> > the alledged reference to a WFRP adventure...
>
> It's not a reference, it's a similarity.

Ah, I see -- I thought you meant the name had been lifted straight from a
WFRP adventure.

> Everyone round the table had a smattering of German so we all made the
> translation fairly quickly.

I wonder what she's called in the German translation of Harlequin. Or, for
that matter, whether any changes were made to that chapter. After all, it's
a fairly tongue-in-cheek type of run, which I suppose isn't quite as funny
if you're German :)

> Kugelschriber - Ballscrew, Screwball

"Kugelschrieber" means "ball-point pen", though...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wat wil die man in hemelsnaam?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 29
From: mike_buckalew@*********.com (Mike Buckalew)
Subject: Fencing
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:53:02 -0800
On 1/25/03 2:07 AM, "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl> wrote:

> That's the one, yes (Enemy Within, I mean).

To tie this all back in to SR, a lot of the WFRP material, including several
Enemy Within modules, were written (or co-written) by Carl Sargent. Some of
you may remember that Carl Sargent had been pegged to replace Tom Dowd as
the DLOH when he stepped down. There was some period of six months or so
where Carl was supposed to relocate to the US and take over. Eventually,
when this didn't happen, Mike Mulvihil, who had been covering things while
waiting for Carl, stepped up and took the position. At least, that's how my
brain remembers it.

You may also notice that Carl wrote some SR supplements, including Tir Na
Nog. I belive that many hold him responsible for the expansion of the
secret immortal elves storyline elements.

--
Buck (Mike Buckalew)
SCM Manager, FileMaker Inc.
mike_buckalew@*********.com

Further Reading

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