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Message no. 1
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Fencing and melee combat
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:00:30 -0500
Woo Hoo something that I know a whole lot about;

First in foil and Sabre by definition an attack is a forward moving
action "by the arm" no neccessarily by the feet. I saw some very pretty
foil at the last Nat'l championships I attended where both fencers were
moving down the strip at a dead run and the retreating fencer got an
attack in while moving backwards. For you foilists it was a pickup flick
to the back going backwards (It was Micheal Marx BTW).

In epee there is no right of way and the double touch kind of implies that
both are dead.

Now to start the furious debate;

IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
charger also.

Now if dueling were to happen IRL I think that you would see a mix of
styles. It would be very epee like in the blade control and timing,
both opponents would spend much more time defending, going in for the
kill only after the opponent has made a mistake. But, the defensive
moves would be much more foil oriented, much more tempo oriented.


well that's my $0.02.

I suppose we might want to go private if this gets way out of hand.


Regards

-Bill
Message no. 2
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fencing and melee combat
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:38:50 -0400
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 14:00, William Monroe
Ashe[SMTP:wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU] wrote:

> IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
> allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
> tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
> hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
> big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
> his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
> favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
> charger also.

Well, you have to remember the periods that the various weapons are trying
to simulate. Foil simulates a period wher duels were fought to the death.
Thus, the target area consists of areas where a single strike would be
crippling. Saber simulates a period where duels were fought on horseback to
the point where a combatant could no longer fight. Hence, the target are
adds the arms. Epee simulates a period where duels were fought to first
blood, thus a touch anywhere counts.


--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 3
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fencing and melee combat
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:32:17 -0600
> IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
> allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
> tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
> hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
> big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
> his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
> favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
> charger also.
>
> Now if dueling were to happen IRL I think that you would see a mix of
> styles. It would be very epee like in the blade control and timing,
> both opponents would spend much more time defending, going in for the
> kill only after the opponent has made a mistake. But, the defensive
> moves would be much more foil oriented, much more tempo oriented.
>
Agree hole haretedly, I'v alays thought eppe as more realistic that the
other to, thought they're all fun!


> I suppose we might want to go private if this gets way out of hand.
>
>
> Regards
>
> -Bill
>
don't you dare, unless you let me in on it! ;Þ

Caun :}

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