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Message no. 1
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:59:37 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>
Date : lundi 28 septembre 1998 19:23
Objet : Re: Lightbringers

> Actually, one of the ED lighbearers primary purposes is the creation
>of sources of magical knowledge (including legends) that can survive the
>"downcycle" and be used to get a jump on the horrors when they start to
>show thier ugly mugs in the sixth word. This goal is specifically stated
>as the founder of the lightbearers aim, in their ED history; "The
>Lightbearers ultimate goal was to help reclaim the world from the scourge
>and leave a legacy to aid the world thousands of years in the future, the
>next time the Horrors came." (p. 108, ED companion)
> If they succeeded or not is, of course, questionable, and not directly
>pertinent to SR as such. I would say thet the "Dragonheart" trilogy has
>some direct indications about those matters; what they are, I'm not sure,
>it could be taken as proof in either direction.
>
>Mongoose

That would prove interesting. I had considered after buying the SrComp
building a campaign around the AF's mystical crusaders but I didn't like
the idea of my players being the employees of someone whose agenda
is a mystery to me. Then I considered making them employees of
the Draco Foundation, but since it dropped out of public view after
the big D's demise I hesitated. Lightbearers might be a good idea.
Who out there has come up with interesting ideas for creating a mystical
campaign with players battling the forces of evil?
The best I came up with would be an order of guardians right out of
Buffy with adepts as Slayers and mages as Watchers.
Another idea had been in a cheesy article published in a french
RPG magazine. They were fighting the bad monsters with manga-esque
high tech weaponry and nanotechnological enhancements.
Ideas anyone?

Anjo Verde
Message no. 2
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:42:38 -0700
Twilight Brigade players, delete this message now. We're talking
*major* spoilers here. Better not follow the thread.



















At 19:59 9/28/98 +0200, Anjo Verde wrote:
>De : Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>

>> Actually, one of the ED lighbearers primary purposes is the creation
>>of sources of magical knowledge (including legends) that can survive the
>>"downcycle" and be used to get a jump on the horrors when they start to
>>show thier ugly mugs in the sixth word. This goal is specifically stated
>>as the founder of the lightbearers aim, in their ED history; "The
>>Lightbearers ultimate goal was to help reclaim the world from the scourge
>>and leave a legacy to aid the world thousands of years in the future, the
>>next time the Horrors came." (p. 108, ED companion)

> That would prove interesting. I had considered after buying the SrComp
>building a campaign around the AF's mystical crusaders but I didn't like
>the idea of my players being the employees of someone whose agenda
>is a mystery to me. Then I considered making them employees of
>the Draco Foundation, but since it dropped out of public view after
>the big D's demise I hesitated. Lightbearers might be a good idea.

> Who out there has come up with interesting ideas for creating a mystical
>campaign with players battling the forces of evil?

> The best I came up with would be an order of guardians right out of
>Buffy with adepts as Slayers and mages as Watchers.

What I'm doing is gradually walking my players through Harlequin
and Harlequin's Back, throwing in Bottled Demon and involvement
in the discovery of Nomads for flavor. (I also hijacked Imago
to introduce the notion of reincarnation, and implied that the PC's
are a runner team in the 2050's because they have various karmic links
from previous lives, thanks to a peculiar astral quest.) In my campaign,
Harlequin and Ehran are the last of the Lightbearers (which is where they
get that teleport power used at the end of Harlequin). At some point,
the PC's should get a chance to learn about the Lightbearers, especially
if Harlequin's conscience starts bugging him and pointing out that
this group of unusually moral, highly magical shadowrunners are good
candidates. They may become the first Lightbearers in the Sixth
World and acquire a few of the ghost teachers from the Fourth World.
Then they'd get to start their *own* secret cult dedicated
to battling evil. :-) And Ehran's expression should be priceless
when he finds that the folks that Harlequin is nominating to join
the Lightbearers are the ones that Harley hired to ruin his life...

--
%% Max Rible % slothman@*********.org % http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%
%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%
Message no. 3
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:01:49 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Date : lundi 28 septembre 1998 20:47
Objet : Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)


Your idea sounds good but for what I remember of the Lightbearers, they had
weird and powerful abilities due to their Lightbearer talent. How do you
plan to emulate these abilities while avoiding the munchkinization which is
characteristic of ED to Sr conversions?
However I must say you made me curious. I think I'll try to get my hands
on this Imago adventure you mentioned.

Anjo Verde
Message no. 4
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:33:34 -0700
At 22:01 9/28/98 +0200, Anjo Verde wrote:
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
>Date : lundi 28 septembre 1998 20:47
>Objet : Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
>
>
>Your idea sounds good but for what I remember of the Lightbearers, they had
>weird and powerful abilities due to their Lightbearer talent. How do you
>plan to emulate these abilities while avoiding the munchkinization which is
>characteristic of ED to Sr conversions?

Well, I'm going to be relating SR Initiate Grade to ED Circle rank,
and the cost of buying up such talents won't be cheap. Also, the
Lightbearer talents are fairly distinctive. The team are unlikely
to use them too often where they might be noticed-- they work hard
to avoid using a consistent modus operandi, lest they be tracked
down for it.

> However I must say you made me curious. I think I'll try to get my hands
>on this Imago adventure you mentioned.

It's pretty cheesy, but after sufficient time in the blender can be
made into something fun.

--
%% Max Rible %%% max@********.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
Message no. 5
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:34:02 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Date : lundi 28 septembre 1998 22:36
Objet : Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)

>Well, I'm going to be relating SR Initiate Grade to ED Circle rank,
>and the cost of buying up such talents won't be cheap. Also, the
>Lightbearer talents are fairly distinctive. The team are unlikely
>to use them too often where they might be noticed-- they work hard
>to avoid using a consistent modus operandi, lest they be tracked
>down for it.

I remember reading in the Tir n'a Nog sourcebook that bards could aquire
creature powers (I think it was compulsion and influence) provided they
paid a variable amount of karma and reached the third initiate grade.
I guess you mean something like this. Or do you think the gradual initiation
system in Shadowland would be more appropriate in this case?
Will you make the cost increase between grades linear?
It is mentioned in ED that some monsters (like vampires) were created
by the horrors. Will you allow those powers to affect horror-created
monsters? That would make them fearful vampire hunters. Just curious :-)

Anjo Verde
Message no. 6
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:36:16 -0700
At 00:34 9/29/98 +0200, you wrote:
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
>Date : lundi 28 septembre 1998 22:36
>Objet : Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
>
>>Well, I'm going to be relating SR Initiate Grade to ED Circle rank,
>>and the cost of buying up such talents won't be cheap. Also, the
>>Lightbearer talents are fairly distinctive. The team are unlikely
>>to use them too often where they might be noticed-- they work hard
>>to avoid using a consistent modus operandi, lest they be tracked
>>down for it.

>I remember reading in the Tir n'a Nog sourcebook that bards could aquire
>creature powers (I think it was compulsion and influence) provided they
>paid a variable amount of karma and reached the third initiate grade.
>I guess you mean something like this. Or do you think the gradual initiation
>system in Shadowland would be more appropriate in this case?
>Will you make the cost increase between grades linear?
>It is mentioned in ED that some monsters (like vampires) were created
>by the horrors. Will you allow those powers to affect horror-created
>monsters? That would make them fearful vampire hunters. Just curious :-)

Actually, I was planning to make them buy it using the ED stats, at
200 legend points per SR karma. This means that the cost of the next
power will go up as the Fibonacci number. The campaign isn't near there
yet, so I haven't nailed down the details yet-- I want the powers to
be moderately pricey, but not ridiculous. If the Lightbearer stuff
works on horror-created monsters in ED, I'll probably allow it in SR...

--
%% Max Rible %%% max@********.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
Message no. 7
From: Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:02:01 +0200
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Date : mardi 29 septembre 1998 00:41
Objet : Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)


>Actually, I was planning to make them buy it using the ED stats, at
>200 legend points per SR karma. This means that the cost of the next
>power will go up as the Fibonacci number. The campaign isn't near there
>yet, so I haven't nailed down the details yet-- I want the powers to
>be moderately pricey, but not ridiculous. If the Lightbearer stuff
>works on horror-created monsters in ED, I'll probably allow it in SR...

Isn't there a predefinite Legend Points to Karma ratio in ED.
I don't know if in ED these powers affected horror-spawned monsters,
but if you try to imagine how much the fun powers (6+) cost,
your players will sure as hell want them to. All in all, that idea of yours
sounds fun. I think I might follow up on your idea and make up
a Lightbearer campaign. Or perhaps I'll mix with it a dose of high tech.
I'd expect Lightbearers of the XXIst century to adapt.
After all those evil techs (cyberzombies, FAB-III, HMHVV mutant strains)
I feel like anti-evil tech is long overdue. :-)

Thanks for all your suggestions. If you come up with other stuff or feel
like discussing some ideas, by all means do so. :-)

Anjo Verde
Message no. 8
From: Rick J Federle <griffinhq@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:39:33 -0400
On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:02:01 +0200 Anjo Verde <Chant_Obscur@*******.FR>
writes:
[snippity, snippity, snip]

>
>Thanks for all your suggestions. If you come up with other stuff or
>feel
>like discussing some ideas, by all means do so. :-)
>
(don't know if this helps, but . . . ) When I had to convert the
horrors (and horror constructs) over from ED to SR, as a general rule of
thumb, I made the SR stats 2/3 of the ED stats and located equivalent
powers.
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Message no. 9
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fighting Evil (was Re: Lightbringers)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:46:48 -0700
Twilight Brigade players, skip this message...

At 13:02 9/29/98 +0200, Anjo Verde wrote:
>>Actually, I was planning to make them buy it using the ED stats, at
>>200 legend points per SR karma. This means that the cost of the next
>>power will go up as the Fibonacci number. The campaign isn't near there
>>yet, so I haven't nailed down the details yet-- I want the powers to
>>be moderately pricey, but not ridiculous. If the Lightbearer stuff
>>works on horror-created monsters in ED, I'll probably allow it in SR...

>Isn't there a predefinite Legend Points to Karma ratio in ED.

Yes, but ED karma is quite different from SR karma. ED karma is
used as a fuel for magical talents; SR karma is for all the same
purposes as Legend Points are in ED. You can spend Legend Points
to buy ED karma using the Karma Ritual talent.

>I don't know if in ED these powers affected horror-spawned monsters,
>but if you try to imagine how much the fun powers (6+) cost,
>your players will sure as hell want them to. All in all, that idea of yours
>sounds fun. I think I might follow up on your idea and make up
>a Lightbearer campaign. Or perhaps I'll mix with it a dose of high tech.
>I'd expect Lightbearers of the XXIst century to adapt.
>After all those evil techs (cyberzombies, FAB-III, HMHVV mutant strains)
>I feel like anti-evil tech is long overdue. :-)

It's hard to make tech "good". Dehumanizing is easy; humanizing is hard.
Anything effective can usually be turned around and used as a weapon.

In my campaign, I intend for the far future (2080 at the earliest,
probably the early 2100s) to include a rather impressive battle against
the Horrors, the upshot of which is that the Horrors get their asses
handed to them on an orichalcum platter and sent packing by highly
trained forces that integrate technology and magic and cut their teeth
kicking insect spirits out of our universe. No Scourge this time, and
a lot of really sheepish Great Dragons watching as Verjigorm signs the
articles of surrender with a gun to its head.

The major key to this incredible victory is the Matrix. It turns the
vast population of the planet from a liability, far too enormous to be
packed into kaers, to an asset: it can link researchers together from
across the planet, permitting new stragies and technologies to be
developed far faster than in any think tank. The Horrors, lacking such
organization, will be unable to adapt as fast as the (meta)humans.
The otaku will become important figures in maintaining the security of
the Matrix, and Horror-corrupted otaku will be a rather nasty threat.

Of course, this whole thing is just a backdrop to the *really* interesting
story, which is that of the Deep Resonance attempting to make contact
with the True Pattern of Gaia, which manifests through the Lightbearers...
and then they have to deal with the migration fleet of a bunch of space
aliens moving on to this solar system as the currents of magic move
through the galaxy and the property values change in a five thousand
year cycle...

--
%% Max Rible %%% max@********.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%

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