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Message no. 1
From: W.Blount@*******.anu.edu.au (Warwick)
Subject: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:29:49 +1000
I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
everyone else think?
Message no. 2
From: Charles McKenzie <kilroy@**.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 01:52:16 -0600 (CST)
On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Warwick wrote:

> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
> everyone else think?

No, the point is it's a combat spell. Combat spells target auras.
Manipulation spells do physical things. (see FlameBomb)
Although I think that the spell should be a manipulation spell, because
it says that things it the way can burn...

Chuck McKenzie . kilroy@***.cs.wisc.edu
Finger me for my PGP key http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~kilroy/
Fight Evil: alt.religion.kibology
Message no. 3
From: W.Blount@*******.anu.edu.au (Warwick)
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:26:43 +1000
>On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Warwick wrote:
>
>> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
>> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
>> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
>> everyone else think?
>
>No, the point is it's a combat spell. Combat spells target auras.
>Manipulation spells do physical things. (see FlameBomb)
>Although I think that the spell should be a manipulation spell, because
>it says that things it the way can burn...
>

That's sorta what I meant. And if it were Manipulation, it would then be
able to blow up a astral traveling mages body and his chummers around it.
Right??
Message no. 4
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:23:26 +1100 (EST)
> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
>a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
>goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
>everyone else think?

I think you should use Flame Bomb spells if you want that affect.
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:23:11 +1100 (EST)
>That's sorta what I meant. And if it were Manipulation, it would then be
>able to blow up a astral traveling mages body and his chummers around it.
>Right??

No. Manipulation spells become Physical the instant they are cast. Unlike
Combat Spells, and all other spells, there is no "travelling time" for the
spell to be able to affect Astral Targets. As a result, you can not cast a
Manipulation spell of any kind against an Astral target.

The best bet for this tactic, if you can't see the mage's physical body, is
to cast a Combat Spell with an Elemental Effect, eg: Fire Ball. The chummers
are spared the Powerball component, but still have a ball of fire doing
significant damage to them.

By the same token, you can not ground Manipulation spells through foci. As a
matter of fact, you can't even CAST them on the Astral plane.
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:57:29 +0100
Warwick said on 18 Dec 95...

> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
> everyone else think?

LIMITED FIREBALL (Manipulation)
This spell causes a small ball of flame to shoot forth from the caster's
hand toward the intended target. Once there, the ball explodes to full
area-effect.
While flying toward the target, anyone standing between the caster and
target is subject to (Force)L damage, against which one-half Impact armor
defends, but the caster's successes do not increase the Damage Level.
Upon reaching the target, the small ball of fire rapidly expands into an
area-effect spell centered on the intended target (the target may simply
be a point in space), doin (Force)S damage in the entire area of effect.
This damage _is_ staged up according to the successes rolled on the Spell
Success Test.
Limited Fireball uses the elemental effect of fire.

Type: Physical Range: Limited Target: 4
Damage Level: S Duration: Instant Drain: [(F/2)+1]D

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Just think that everything you touch can turn to gold.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:14:35 +0000 (GMT)
>
> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
> everyone else think?
>

I think the spell you're looking for is FIRE BOMB in the manipulations.
After all, what's in a name?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:16:50 +0000 (GMT)
>
> On Mon, 18 Dec 1995, Warwick wrote:
>
> > I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
> > a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
> > goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
> > everyone else think?
>
> No, the point is it's a combat spell. Combat spells target auras.
> Manipulation spells do physical things. (see FlameBomb)
> Although I think that the spell should be a manipulation spell, because
> it says that things it the way can burn...

Tes, but only if it beats the materials target number. After all, the spell
targets the aura, so platic would only start to burn on a #10 or so.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:37:04 GMT
Robert Watkins writes

> The best bet for this tactic, if you can't see the mage's physical body, is
> to cast a Combat Spell with an Elemental Effect, eg: Fire Ball. The chummers
> are spared the Powerball component, but still have a ball of fire doing
> significant damage to them.
>
questionable, but even if it works the chances of making the
elemental effect roll with that +4 for combat spell is remote at best

> By the same token, you can not ground Manipulation spells through foci. As a
> matter of fact, you can't even CAST them on the Astral plane.
>
Someone that agrees with me!
FASA never really stated this one but if you look at how they work in
the main (SR2) rulebook this makes perfect sense. Also it gets rid of
the nastiest astral mage killer of the lot, else it force 6
flamethrower, so your Harlequin you don't have armour on the astral!
oops [actually the immortal elves might well have solutions to that
one, but Dragons are about the only thing that there are stats for
that get such goodies].

Mark
Message no. 10
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:03:59 +0000 (GMT)
>
> Robert Watkins writes
>
> > The best bet for this tactic, if you can't see the mage's physical body, is
> > to cast a Combat Spell with an Elemental Effect, eg: Fire Ball. The chummers
> > are spared the Powerball component, but still have a ball of fire doing
> > significant damage to them.
> >
> questionable, but even if it works the chances of making the
> elemental effect roll with that +4 for combat spell is remote at best
>
> > By the same token, you can not ground Manipulation spells through foci. As a
> > matter of fact, you can't even CAST them on the Astral plane.
> >

I think you should clarify it a bit. You can't cast PHYSICAL manipulations
in astral space. What about Anti-spell barrier?????
It's a mana spell that exists only in astral space, so why NOT cast it in
astral space? Very useful protection spell if you ask me!

> Someone that agrees with me!
> FASA never really stated this one but if you look at how they work in
> the main (SR2) rulebook this makes perfect sense. Also it gets rid of
> the nastiest astral mage killer of the lot, else it force 6
> flamethrower, so your Harlequin you don't have armour on the astral!
> oops [actually the immortal elves might well have solutions to that
> one, but Dragons are about the only thing that there are stats for
> that get such goodies].

I think they probably do at that. After all, people came up with weapon
focusses pretty quickly. How about an ARMOUR FOCUS? I can't see any reason
why not, it'd just take one hell of a lot of research (or help from ol' Har
'n' friends)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 13:46 EST
> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
>a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
>goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
>everyone else think?

"Fireball: an area effect spell that causes Physical damage using the
elemental effect of fire." (pg 126 Grim2)

>From the above description I would say yes, this "ball" of fire would have
the possibility of ingniting flamable objects in it's area of effect. After
all that is what Elemental Effect means.
---Sedah Drol
--
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Message no. 12
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 13:51 EST
>No, the point is it's a combat spell. Combat spells target auras.
>Manipulation spells do physical things. (see FlameBomb)
>Although I think that the spell should be a manipulation spell, because
>it says that things it the way can burn...
Read the spell description fireball has the Elemental Effect of fire. It
does primary damge, plus it has the chance of doing secondary damage (the
rules say, since it is a combat spell increase the objects resistance number
+4) pages 112-113 Grim2.:)
---Sedah Drol


--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 13
From: seb@***.ripco.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:44:20 -0600 (CST)
>
> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
> everyone else think?
>
>
The spell you are suggesting is flamebomb, I think. To create a ball of
actual, physical flame, you need a manipulation spell (specifically, a
damaging manipulation area effect elemental flame spell).
Fireball is a combat spell, and chanells flame energy into the targets aura.
There are mana repercusions, effects wise, to these two different mechanichs.
Message no. 14
From: Justin Thomas <Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 17:15:07 -0600
At 03:53 PM 12/19/95 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> I think that this spell has been dealt with entirely wrongly. I feel that
>> a fireball spell should be similar to the D&D one, where the spell, when it
>> goes off, actually *creates* an intensly hot ball of fire. What does
>> everyone else think?
>>
>>
>The spell you are suggesting is flamebomb, I think. To create a ball of
>actual, physical flame, you need a manipulation spell (specifically, a
>damaging manipulation area effect elemental flame spell).
>Fireball is a combat spell, and chanells flame energy into the targets aura.
>There are mana repercusions, effects wise, to these two different mechanichs.
>

I know this is a very obvious question, but it the answer had eluded me...
when you cast a physical combat spell, fireball for example, when it strikes
does it create a large colorfull explosion on the other end that can be
seen? or does the explosion happen in astral space on on the heat and the
pain can be felt in physical space... please help...
******************************
Justin Thomas
"Farr"
Email:
thom0767@****.tc.umn.edu
or if that doesn't work
Justin.C.Thomas-1@**.umn.edu
or
justin.thomas@*********.mn.org
Message no. 15
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Fireball Argument
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 22:42 EST
>I know this is a very obvious question, but it the answer had eluded me...
>when you cast a physical combat spell, fireball for example, when it strikes
>does it create a large colorfull explosion on the other end that can be
>seen? or does the explosion happen in astral space on on the heat and the
>pain can be felt in physical space... please help...
Since fireball has the Elemental Effect of fire, it is seen in the physical.
In other words, yes there is a ball of fire that is seen.
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
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PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++

Further Reading

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