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Message no. 1
From: Razors Edge. razrzedge@*****.com
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
--- Marc Renouf <renouf@********.com> wrote:
> Important! Note that the savings is applied to the
> *multiplier*
> not the total. So if you have a Rating 2 Reusable
> Anchoring Focus (First
> Bonding multiplier of x5) was created with the
> prerequisite number of
> units of radical iron (i.e. it has one type of
> alchemical radical), the
> first bonding cost is 2*(5-1) = 8 Karma. Keep in
> mind, though, that
> higher ratings of foci require more units of
> alchemical radicals in order
> to get this bonus, meaning more time/money spent in
> alchemy.
> The multiplier can never be reduced below 1 in this
> fashion.

In the Grimoire 2nd edition, the first bonding table
(p. 26) says that the modifiers that an enchanter
includes in making a foci, subtract karma from the
cost of bonding equal to the modifier times the rating
(or force) of the foci. Example: a focre 4 power focus
(base 7 * force 4 = 28) made from Virgin telesma
(- modifier 2 * force 4 = 8) would have a first
bonding cost of (28 base - 8 modifier =) 20 karma
points before further reduction via an enchanting
test.

In Magic in the Shadows, the first bonding cost table
(p. 45) the modifiers are not multiplied by force of
the foci. Example: a focre 4 power focus (base 7 *
force 4 = 28) made from Virgin telesma
(- modifier 2) would have a first bonding cost of (28
base -2 modifier =) 26 karma points before further
reduction via an enchanting test.

Two very different situations. This seems to be an
intentional change to the first bonding table. So the
cost for that first bonding is quite high indeed.

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Message no. 2
From: Razors Edge. razrzedge@*****.com
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
--- Marc Renouf <renouf@********.com> wrote:
> Important! Note that the savings is applied to the
> *multiplier*
> not the total. So if you have a Rating 2 Reusable
> Anchoring Focus (First
> Bonding multiplier of x5) was created with the
> prerequisite number of
> units of radical iron (i.e. it has one type of
> alchemical radical), the
> first bonding cost is 2*(5-1) = 8 Karma. Keep in
> mind, though, that
> higher ratings of foci require more units of
> alchemical radicals in order
> to get this bonus, meaning more time/money spent in
> alchemy.
> The multiplier can never be reduced below 1 in this
> fashion.

In the Grimoire 2nd edition, the first bonding table
(p. 26) says that the modifiers that an enchanter
includes in making a foci, subtract karma from the
cost of bonding equal to the modifier times the rating
(or force) of the foci. Example: a focre 4 power focus
(base 7 * force 4 = 28) made from Virgin telesma
(- modifier 2 * force 4 = 8) would have a first
bonding cost of (28 base - 8 modifier =) 20 karma
points before further reduction via an enchanting
test.

In Magic in the Shadows, the first bonding cost table
(p. 45) the modifiers are not multiplied by force of
the foci. Example: a focre 4 power focus (base 7 *
force 4 = 28) made from Virgin telesma
(- modifier 2) would have a first bonding cost of (28
base -2 modifier =) 26 karma points before further
reduction via an enchanting test.

Two very different situations. This seems to be an
intentional change to the first bonding table. So the
cost for that first bonding is quite high indeed.

_____________________________________________________________
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Message no. 3
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 17 May 1999, Razors Edge. wrote:

> Two very different situations. This seems to be an
> intentional change to the first bonding table. So the
> cost for that first bonding is quite high indeed.

Really? I read through the section on enchanting and first
bonding and didn't see it specifically mentioned. As such, I assumed that
they had effectively kept the old system where the modifiers applied to
the multiplier, not the total. Did I miss an example?
And if so, what's the deal? Why make first bonding *more*
expensive than just bonding a focus you've picked up off the streets? Why
would you ever go through the time and effort to make one?

Marc
Message no. 4
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:16:41 +0200
Marc Renouf wrote:
>

> And if so, what's the deal? Why make first bonding *more*
> expensive than just bonding a focus you've picked up off the streets? Why
> would you ever go through the time and effort to make one?

The first bonding cost basicaly more because the object is NOT magical at
that point, the first bonding activates the magic in the item, infuses it
with magic, that part is not need later, only a change of the bond is needed
later on, and that is simpler and not as karma intensive as creating a
actual magic infusion.

--
Barbie

SR4 - A power on the raise ...
Another assimilated each week ...
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:34:02 EDT
In a message dated 5/17/1999 2:43:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
renouf@********.com writes:

> Really? I read through the section on enchanting and first
> bonding and didn't see it specifically mentioned. As such, I assumed that
> they had effectively kept the old system where the modifiers applied to
> the multiplier, not the total. Did I miss an example?
> And if so, what's the deal? Why make first bonding *more*
> expensive than just bonding a focus you've picked up off the streets? Why
> would you ever go through the time and effort to make one?
>
> Marc

I'm gonna answer this in a strange way here Marc. This kinda' might be what
is called "Priming", and is something that Steve may have gotten as
inspiration from other sources (considering everything else he's dug through,
it wouldn't surprise me). It's a necessary step when establishing a "core
power" to a given thing, which is where I got some of my terminology for my
expanded rules to Enchanting up on HHH (which btw, are still more
detail-driven/flexible IMO than MitS).

-K (and NO, that is NOT in a rough draft or anything else that we possess
here)
Message no. 6
From: Jamz Jamz@*********.Net
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:03:36 -0500
> > Really? I read through the section on enchanting and first
> > bonding and didn't see it specifically mentioned. As such, I assumed
that
> > they had effectively kept the old system where the modifiers applied to
> > the multiplier, not the total. Did I miss an example?
> > And if so, what's the deal? Why make first bonding *more*
> > expensive than just bonding a focus you've picked up off the streets?
Why
> > would you ever go through the time and effort to make one?
> >
> > Marc
>
> I'm gonna answer this in a strange way here Marc. This kinda' might be
what
> is called "Priming", and is something that Steve may have gotten as
> inspiration from other sources (considering everything else he's dug
through,
> it wouldn't surprise me). It's a necessary step when establishing a "core
> power" to a given thing, which is where I got some of my terminology for
my
> expanded rules to Enchanting up on HHH (which btw, are still more
> detail-driven/flexible IMO than MitS).
>
> -K (and NO, that is NOT in a rough draft or anything else that we possess
> here)
>

First bonding is more expensive because you're combining two processes,
Infusing the item with magical energy And then bonding it to the user.
Why would someone make their own? Have you seen how much some of those foci
go for? If you have the extra karma, say 40-45, you might be able to save
yourself 1,480,000 nuyen which is the street cost of a rating 6 weapon focus
(Katana). If I had 1.4 million nuyen, I'd buy myself a permanent High
lifestyle and retire...

Peace,
Jamz@*********.net
http://www.comnetcom.net/~jamz
Message no. 7
From: JThor27860@***.com JThor27860@***.com
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 02:20:55 EDT
In a message dated 5/18/99 1:01:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
Jamz@*********.Net writes:

<< > > Really? I read through the section on enchanting and first
> > bonding and didn't see it specifically mentioned. As such, I assumed
that
> > they had effectively kept the old system where the modifiers applied to
> > the multiplier, not the total. Did I miss an example?
> > And if so, what's the deal? Why make first bonding *more*
> > expensive than just bonding a focus you've picked up off the streets?
Why
> > would you ever go through the time and effort to make one?
> >
> > Marc
>
> I'm gonna answer this in a strange way here Marc. This kinda' might be
what
> is called "Priming", and is something that Steve may have gotten as
> inspiration from other sources (considering everything else he's dug
through,
> it wouldn't surprise me). It's a necessary step when establishing a "core
> power" to a given thing, which is where I got some of my terminology for
my
> expanded rules to Enchanting up on HHH (which btw, are still more
> detail-driven/flexible IMO than MitS).
>
> -K (and NO, that is NOT in a rough draft or anything else that we possess
> here)
>

First bonding is more expensive because you're combining two processes,
Infusing the item with magical energy And then bonding it to the user.
Why would someone make their own? Have you seen how much some of those foci
go for? If you have the extra karma, say 40-45, you might be able to save
yourself 1,480,000 nuyen which is the street cost of a rating 6 weapon focus
(Katana). If I had 1.4 million nuyen, I'd buy myself a permanent High
lifestyle and retire...

Peace,
Jamz@*********.net
http://www.comnetcom.net/~jamz >>

Besides, when you design your own foci, you know how it was made and it also
allows you time as you design it to tweak the spell effect to exactly how you
want them to work instead of getting some generic foci some talismongerer
made.

-John, The Treehugger, leaf eating, Elf Poser
Message no. 8
From: Sven De Herdt Sven.DeHerdt@***********.be
Subject: First Bonding Costs MitS
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 17:45:20 +0200
On Tuesday, May 18, 1999 8:04 AM, Jamz [SMTP:Jamz@*********.net] wrote:
>
> First bonding is more expensive because you're combining two
> processes,
> Infusing the item with magical energy And then bonding it to the user.
>
> Why would someone make their own? Have you seen how much some of those
> foci
> go for? If you have the extra karma, say 40-45, you might be able to
> save
> yourself 1,480,000 nuyen which is the street cost of a rating 6 weapon
> focus
> (Katana). If I had 1.4 million nuyen, I'd buy myself a permanent High
> lifestyle and retire...
>
> Peace,
> Jamz@*********.net
> http://www.comnetcom.net/~jamz
>
Were is your spirit for adventure? Do you think it is that easy to
leave running through the shadows behind you? It is more than a job, it
is a lifestyle. I think you would get tired pretty fast of the easy
life, missing all the adrenaline and not to live on the edge anymore,
just being regular. Nah, this won't do, I would go for the rating 6
weapon focus and go out in the shadows again (improved in such a way
that it could give you the necessary edge to turn luck into your
direction)

Sven :)
*sorry, but I'm in a kinda rambling mood, making no sense, just spilling
out some thoughts and feelings*

SRCG v0.2 SR1! SR2++ SR3++ h b++>+++ B>+ UB->++ IE+(-) RN+(-) dk++>+++
sa- ma++ sh++ ad+ ri+ mc- m+ gm+>++(+++) M-(+)

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