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Message no. 1
From: soulmama soulmama@*****.net
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:49:49 -0600
Hello,
I was curious to know, do creatures that fly simply have a Movement Modifier
like walking/running characters? If it is just a MM, how fast would a dragon
accelerate? Compared to a Rapier or Americar? Or do/should they have
Acceleration, Handling, etc. like vehicles. What about hang-gliders and
such?

danzig138
"Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished.
Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this"
-Rorschach (The Watchmen)
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:11:28 +0100
According to soulmama, on Thu, 02 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> I was curious to know, do creatures that fly simply have a Movement Modifier
> like walking/running characters?

AFAIK, they do have a movement multiplier, which is used to determine their
flying speed (so that flying is basically always the same as running). For
example, if you look at the last page of Critters, the entry for the wyvern
says its Quickness is 3 x2, and a note at the bottom indicates the movement
multiplier is 6 when flying. So, a wyvern can walk 3 meters a turn, run 6,
or fly 12.

> If it is just a MM, how fast would a dragon accelerate? Compared to a
> Rapier or Americar? Or do/should they have Acceleration, Handling, etc.
> like vehicles. What about hang-gliders and such?

Characters can basically accelerate up to their full speed in a single
action, so it wouldn't be different for critters. The above-mentioned
wyvern would not have a vehicle's movement stats, but could go from
standing still to 12 m/turn in a single action, and stop in that same
action.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The less of a life, the more mail you read.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 08:59:18 -0500
From: "soulmama" <soulmama@*****.net>
Subject: Flying and Gliding?


> Hello,
> I was curious to know, do creatures that fly simply have a Movement
Modifier
> like walking/running characters? If it is just a MM, how fast would a
dragon
> accelerate? Compared to a Rapier or Americar? Or do/should they have
> Acceleration, Handling, etc. like vehicles. What about hang-gliders and
> such?

I believe they have all the normal rules for "movement" as per standard
rules for Quickness, Athletics, etc... according to the various methods of
propulsion afforded to them. I can't seem to recall if there is a switch
between the "ground movement" and the "flying movement" stuff however.

Me personally I assign a "handling value" to a lot of other stuff, mostly
based on similar size objects or "whatever sounds good". Usually its just
something like a "3" or "4"... and then apply similar modifiers that
riggers/pilots use for similar actions. It isn't perfect, but it does seem
to normally work.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Message no. 4
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 20:36:08 -0800 (PST)
> > I was curious to know, do creatures that fly
simply have a Movement Modifier like walking/running
characters?
>
> AFAIK, they do have a movement multiplier, which is
used to determine their flying speed (so that flying
is basically always the same as running). For example,
if you look at the last page of Critters, the entry
for the wyvern says its Quickness is 3 x2, and a note
at the bottom indicates the movement multiplier is 6
when flying. So, a wyvern can walk 3 meters a turn,
run 6, or fly 12.
> Gurth@******.nl -

Apart from dodgy maths (3*6 is 18, not 12), Gurth is
completely correct.

Hey, Gurth! Now I see why you hate me!

;)

*Doc' points. "Hey, look, is that a full moon?"

Gurth looks. "No, it isn't."

Doc' drops his pants. "But this is!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Message no. 5
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:04:44 +0100
According to Rand Ratinac, on Mon, 06 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> Apart from dodgy maths (3*6 is 18, not 12), Gurth is
> completely correct.

I had noticed that slip-up too, but was hoping nobody else would...

> Hey, Gurth! Now I see why you hate me!
>
> ;)

Nah... this stretches back much further :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The less of a life, the more mail you read.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: danzig138 d138@*****.net
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 08:48:14 -0600
> -----Original Message-----
> Apart from dodgy maths (3*6 is 18, not 12), Gurth is
> completely correct.
>

So creatures just have a MM, cool. I can handle that. What about rules for
hang gliding and such? Thanks.

danzig138
"Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished.
Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this"
-Rorschach (The Watchmen)
Message no. 7
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:14:59 +0100
According to danzig138, on Mon, 06 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> So creatures just have a MM, cool. I can handle that.

Yep. Just look at the stats and you'll find the multiplier.

> What about rules for hang gliding and such? Thanks.

I don't think there are any in SR, certainly none aimed specifically at
critters. I looked over the rules for parachuting in M&M just now, but they
don't seem to include guidelines for really steering a parachute to get it
where you want it to.

The easiest way to do this is probably to assign each critter a glide
ratio -- that is, how far it can move horizontally for every meter fallen.
How high you should set these values, though, I don't know.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The less of a life, the more mail you read.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: danzig138 d138@*****.net
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:52:32 -0600
> -----Original Message-----
> The easiest way to do this is probably to assign each critter a glide
> ratio -- that is, how far it can move horizontally for every meter fallen.
> How high you should set these values, though, I don't know.
>

I don't have any idea how much to set the numbers either. I don't really
know
much about gliding. One of my players was interested in getting his
character a
glider, and I was like...ummm...we'll see. :) I think he wants to glide from
a
building. Stumped me. Thanks for the advice,

danzig138
"Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished.
Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this"
-Rorschach (The Watchmen)
Message no. 9
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 20:55:21 -0800 (PST)
> So creatures just have a MM, cool. I can handle
that. What about rules for hang gliding and such?
Thanks.
> danzig138

There aren't any.

CC introduced parachuting rules, but that's the
closest they've come to having SR rules for such
things.

You might want to just make an athletics test (with a
complementary Hang Gliding knowledge skill) or
something like that for it. Or you could make it a
vehicle skill, esp. for motorised gliders...

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Message no. 10
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 02:30:59 -0500
From: "Rand Ratinac" <docwagon101@*****.com>
Subject: RE: Flying and Gliding?


> > So creatures just have a MM, cool. I can handle
> that. What about rules for hang gliding and such?
> Thanks.
> > danzig138
>
> There aren't any.

Actually, there *were* some rules regarding such under the Ultralights in
the Rigger Black Book IIRC. I keep remembering something under the Raven
for some reason.

> CC introduced parachuting rules, but that's the
> closest they've come to having SR rules for such
> things.
>
> You might want to just make an athletics test (with a
> complementary Hang Gliding knowledge skill) or
> something like that for it. Or you could make it a
> vehicle skill, esp. for motorised gliders...

Gliders are part of Winged Planes actually the last I recalled under the SR3
rules.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 23:46:41 -0800 (PST)
> > > So creatures just have a MM, cool. I can handle
that. What about rules for hang gliding and such?
Thanks.
> > > danzig138
> >
> > There aren't any.
>
> Actually, there *were* some rules regarding such
under the Ultralights in the Rigger Black Book IIRC.
I keep remembering something under the Raven for some
reason.

Really? Well, you certainly could be right.

> > CC introduced parachuting rules, but that's the
closest they've come to having SR rules for such
things.
> >
> > You might want to just make an athletics test
(with a complementary Hang Gliding knowledge skill) or
something like that for it. Or you could make it a
vehicle skill, esp. for motorised gliders...
>
> Gliders are part of Winged Planes actually the last
I recalled under the SR3 rules.
> J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")

Well, by gliders I meant "hang" gliders - y'know, like
that one that first(?) appeared in Fields of Fire,
whose name I can't recall - a hang glider with a
motor. Gliders themselves (as in the plane-type things
:) ) would certainly fall under Winged Planes. I'd say
the same goes for ultralights if it isn't already
explicitly noted, just to keep things simple. And if
you really wanted, using the SR rules the closest
SINGLE skill to hang gliding curently available in
Winged Plane - or possibly Athletics, as I said above.
That one's really a bit of a catch-all for athletic
endeavours, or at least, that's how I use it.

Here's something you might want to do. Make a whole
list of "daredevil" skills - hang gliding,
parachuting, skiing, snowboarding, skating,
skateboarding. Make them each skills, but have
athletics as the default for all of them.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:23:33 +0100
According to danzig138, on Mon, 06 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> I don't have any idea how much to set the numbers either. I don't really
> know much about gliding. One of my players was interested in getting his
> character a glider, and I was like...ummm...we'll see. :) I think he
> wants to glide from a building. Stumped me. Thanks for the advice,

I would guess that this is easy enough to solve by some research -- find
data on a few RL gliders and you're most of the way there. If all he wants
to do is glide to the ground from a high building, this should work well
enough. If he wants to do actual flights, it gets a lot more complicated
because of the winds, thermals, and all sorts of other stuff you have to
keep in mind.

Still, if it's only for getting off a high building, how about base jumping?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"20% of all Americans are going to vote; the remaining 80% can't
fit into the polling booths." --Have I Got News For You
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:41:05 +0100
According to NeoJudas, on Tue, 07 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> Actually, there *were* some rules regarding such under the Ultralights in
> the Rigger Black Book IIRC. I keep remembering something under the Raven
> for some reason.

I couldn't find any rules for gliding in the RBB on a quick browse-through,
and neither in FoF under the Nightglider (it's treated as a conventional
aircraft).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"20% of all Americans are going to vote; the remaining 80% can't
fit into the polling booths." --Have I Got News For You
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: Martin Steffens marste@*********.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 04:08:33 -0800
From: NeoJudas

> Actually, there *were* some rules regarding such under the Ultralights in
> the Rigger Black Book IIRC. I keep remembering something under the Raven
> for some reason.

The original RBB has a glide ratio for gliders (as K mentioned under the
description of the Raven). In the Raven's case it's 1:3 ; for every three
meters forward movement it drops one. You can increase your altitude by
making a handling test, each success will give you +100 meters altitude.

Hope this helps,

Martin
- Who can finally managed to sort his mail bounce problems, yay! -
Message no. 15
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:18:50 -0500
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Flying and Gliding?


> > Actually, there *were* some rules regarding such under the Ultralights
in
> > the Rigger Black Book IIRC. I keep remembering something under the
Raven
> > for some reason.
>
> I couldn't find any rules for gliding in the RBB on a quick
browse-through,
> and neither in FoF under the Nightglider (it's treated as a conventional
> aircraft).

There were some rules and were I feeling better (and we not tearing through
the computers in the basement) I'd go looking more. It was something like
"plane looses 'x' elevation per 'y' meters, with every handling success
allowing to gain 'z' lift back" or somesuch...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
J. Keith Henry ("K" "NeoJudas")
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
THREEH.COM (www.threeh.com)
Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Flying and Gliding?
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 19:11:34 +0100
According to NeoJudas, on Tue, 07 Nov 2000 the word on the street was...

> > I couldn't find any rules for gliding in the RBB on a quick browse-through,
>
> There were some rules and were I feeling better (and we not tearing through
> the computers in the basement) I'd go looking more. It was something like
> "plane looses 'x' elevation per 'y' meters, with every handling success
> allowing to gain 'z' lift back" or somesuch...

You are right; page 72 of the RBB includes a line about a gliding mode for
the CASA J-239 Raven, though with a glide ratio of 1:3 it doesn't seem to be
very good at that job...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"20% of all Americans are going to vote; the remaining 80% can't
fit into the polling booths." --Have I Got News For You
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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