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Message no. 1
From: Autumn / Shatterglass <laughingcrow@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Food
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:40:02 PST
It would be my guess that the pre-packaged foods would continue to be
popular... I think someone dubbed 'em Nuke-n-Eat... But like a lot of
low-end productions they'll have soy. I'd say... lot's of it.

As for "real" food, my guess is that location would have a lot to do with
availability and cost. Milk and eggs that actually came from cows and
chickens would be more accessable if you lived in a rural area. If
you're in a Sprawl, they would have to be imported, and that would make
them expensive. I'd say, well out of reach of a lot of folks.

[looks at her cookies] If I were to make these sixty years from now, my
guess is that the flour would be real... But unless I still lived out
here in the boonies, the eggs and milk would be engineered substitutes.
The chocolate would certainly be faked (hard to export the cocoa from
Amazonia etc....), and the vanilla as well. ('Already is in a lot of
things... I'm just a culinary anachronist for using the real stuff...)

It's an interesting question... Our idea of food has certainly changed in
the LAST 60 years... No doubt it'll change some more in the next 60. Some
people, though... The lucky or the wealthy... will always be purists,
though. Like me and my vanilla, they'll know what to do when somebody
actually hands over a real steak and an ear of corn....

--Autumn
Message no. 2
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: food
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:49:23 -0400
At 01.02 08-25-99 -0400, you wrote:
>Do you have any idea how hard it is to find red meat in the world of
>Shadowrun?! With everyone living on soy and krill, red meat's


Everyone who has Shadowtech understands about cloned parts- how about
vat-grown beef?
For simple structures that only have one kind of cell (ie, skin) we can
already clone tissue in the lab. Why not do the same with muscle tissue on
a nutrient frame. May not be real steak, but it wouldn't be too far from
veal.

Also, how many folks have a deli, butcher or chef on thier list of
contacts? You sell the good parts (the cyber, any organs that aren't too
badly shot up) to your doc, and the rest.... <g>



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 3
From: 00DNA mcmanus@******.albany.edu
Subject: food
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:02:55 -0400
At 04:49 PM 8/25/99 -0400, IronRaven wrote:
> Everyone who has Shadowtech understands about cloned parts- how about
>vat-grown beef?

The cost. I'd imagine that's its cheaper to just raise and butcher the
cow. And since soy is even cheaper than that...well that's why there's soy
everywhere.
But I do like the idea. Like Mammoth meat. There's only a little bit of
Mammoth meat that people have found on frozen Mammoths...pick it off and
then clone it. I'd imagine it'd taste like **** but I'm sure they could
sucker someone into buying it. (:

> Also, how many folks have a deli, butcher or chef on thier list of
>contacts? You sell the good parts (the cyber, any organs that aren't too
>badly shot up) to your doc, and the rest.... <g>

*blah* There goes my appetite for dinner...thanks!
(:


--00DNA
"...user connection terminated."
Message no. 4
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: food
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:45 -0400
At 17.02 08-25-99 -0400, you wrote:
>The cost. I'd imagine that's its cheaper to just raise and butcher the

Figure in the savings in land, feed and vet visits. It would be higher
than beef is today, but no where as much as real cow would cost in 2050+
America. Think of the difference between vat-beef and cow-beef, circa
2050+, as the difference between regular ground chuck and tenderlion of
those Japanese beer-feed things.
And not just meat, but also vat-leather. Being able to buy a single,
8m-long piece of leather on a 1.5m meter bolt. Soft, suple, buttery
corinthian......

>cow. And since soy is even cheaper than that...well that's why there's soy
>everywhere.

Soy for the peasents, with vat-meat for very special occasions (like
weddings for those on a Medium lifestyle), say maybe a tenth as often as
fresh fruit and veggies at thier level. But they might only have real meat
maybe once in thier life.
For high lifestyle, it is something of a luxury, kinda like being able to
get fresh fruit in the middle of winter (might need to ask your parents and
grandparents- this generation hasa been spoiled by refrigerated freight) or
getting a really nice steak, but it sin't an occasion you would talk about
for the next year.
For the low-end of the Luxury scale, it would be a pretty common item.

>*blah* There goes my appetite for dinner...thanks!
>(:

In my group at college, last year we had someone take a meat-legger for a
contact. Everyone guessed the guy's name right away- he was named for the
head of our food services staff.
(Actually, he his cover was as a delicicean who sold some vat-meat and
aquaculture, with a very little bit of real meat under the table. His real
job was as a street doc. And we NEVER bought groceries from him, no way,
no how, especially not after Milhouse, a 200kilo+ troll, died on the table.
Lotta pork-loin and other pig-parts sold after that. <bleech>
"Patients are patients, parts are parts. Dead guys are parts" and
occasionally lunch. <g>)



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 5
From: Aewyn labsyn@*********.com
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:09:08 -0500
>The cost. I'd imagine that's its cheaper to just raise and butcher the
>cow. And since soy is even cheaper than that...well that's why there's soy
>everywhere.
[snip]
What is soy, exactly?
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:52:20 +0200
According to Aewyn, at 0:09 on 26 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> What is soy, exactly?

A bean. It can be processed to resemble many other kinds of food, and
that's exactly what happens a lot even today. In SR, going by the
sourcebooks, soy forms the basis of the majority of the foodstuffs
consumed by th majority of the population. (What that would cause in the
way of health problems due to a one-sided diet, I don't know...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:15:21 -0400
At 00.09 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
>What is soy, exactly?

Soy bean protine (sp, I just woke up), either clonal or from hydroponic
banks. Basically, the food component to tofu



Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 8
From: Lars Ericson lericson@****.edu
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:09:26 -0500
IronRaven wrote:
>
> At 00.09 08-26-99 -0500, you wrote:
> >What is soy, exactly?
>
> Soy bean protine (sp, I just woke up), either clonal or from hydroponic
> banks. Basically, the food component to tofu

I'm not a nutritionist, but I'm pretty sure that another unique feature
of soy beans is that it contains all the essential proteins that a
person needs. There are something like 8 proteins that the body cannot
manufacture. Rice and beans each give only half, but soy beans provide
all eight, making it a stand-alone meat substitute. There are already
vegetarian soy products in RL and soy fields are rapidly becoming a
replacement crop for many others because it can grow in more harsh
climates.


--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Lars Ericson: Professional Vagabond
Smalley Research Group, Rice University
E-Mail: lericson@****.edu
WWW: http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~lericson/

Life is like a Wankel Engine. In between the emptiness of boredom and
despair, and the compression of stress in one's life, there's that one
spark of enjoyment that keeps you going.
Message no. 9
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:07:18 +700
>> What is soy, exactly?
>
>A bean. It can be processed to resemble many other kinds of food, and
>that's exactly what happens a lot even today. In SR, going by the
>sourcebooks, soy forms the basis of the majority of the foodstuffs
>consumed by th majority of the population. (What that would cause in the
>way of health problems due to a one-sided diet, I don't know...)

Probably not much. Soy is already the staple of most vegetarians and is a very
heavy part of the diets of East Asians and of anyone who eats lots of processed
foods.

However it's not entirely true that it is the only thing consumed byu most people
in 2060. (I know that's not what you said, but it's what many people think...)
You can find in the lifestyles sections that middle and up have real food as
part of their diet. From some for middle to a large portion for the higher ratings.


Also, in addition to soy a lot of 2060's processed foods are algae and bacterial
cultures. These three items would form a near complete diet.
However there are other staples that would last as cheap to produce. Most vegetables
and grains would still exist. It's the meats and dairy that things like soy
and bacteria replace. Meats and Dairy require much larger resources to grow
and maintain than does rice, wheat, corn, fungi (mushrooms) or beans (soy and
others).

A lot of these crops would grow fine in green houses. Some of them even in urban
underground greenhouses. You could stack your crops in shelves with artificial
light and get just as good of results as we do with outdoor planting today.

As a tropical fish hobbyist I can state that the proper forms of artificial
light are already available today to give the full nutritician to the plants.


For uses of soy today just look on the ingrediants list of about half the stuff
available in the supermarket. Another common name for it is Tofu (bean curd).


Unlike wheat and rice, soy ends up as the one in processed foods because of
it's versatility and high nutritian. It's also higher in protien than many meats.
Complimented with corn or rice you can build a complete protien and not have
to use any meat products.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 10
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:50:07 -0400
>>> What is soy, exactly?
>>
>>A bean. It can be processed to resemble many other kinds of food,
and
>>that's exactly what happens a lot even today. In SR, going by the
>>sourcebooks, soy forms the basis of the majority of the foodstuffs
>>consumed by th majority of the population. (What that would cause in
the
>>way of health problems due to a one-sided diet, I don't know...)
>
>Probably not much. Soy is already the staple of most vegetarians and
is a very
>heavy part of the diets of East Asians and of anyone who eats lots of
processed
>foods.
>
>However it's not entirely true that it is the only thing consumed byu
most people
>in 2060. (I know that's not what you said, but it's what many people
think...)
>You can find in the lifestyles sections that middle and up have real
food as
>part of their diet. From some for middle to a large portion for the
higher ratings.
>
>A lot of these crops would grow fine in green houses. Some of them
even in urban
>underground greenhouses. You could stack your crops in shelves with
artificial
>light and get just as good of results as we do with outdoor planting
today.
>
>As a tropical fish hobbyist I can state that the proper forms of
artificial
>light are already available today to give the full nutritician to the
plants.


Mushrooms. In underground areas, you can grow mushrooms. Some fruits
are easier to grow than others, which brings up an interesting
question: Have any of your characters actually raised their own food
(vegetable)?

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"You fool, pain is my friend! Allow me to introduce you to him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Message no. 11
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:12:09 +700
>>A lot of these crops would grow fine in green houses. Some of
>>them even in urban
>>underground greenhouses. You could stack your crops in shelves
>>with artificial
>>light and get just as good of results as we do with outdoor
>>planting today.
>>
>>As a tropical fish hobbyist I can state that the proper forms
>>of artificial light are already available today to give the
>>full nutritician to the plants.
>
>
>Mushrooms. In underground areas, you can grow mushrooms.

With the proper lighting you can grow anything. Today in 1999 many of the needed
lights are available at your local tropical fish store. I've got some of these
plant lights on my fancier tanks (I have 5 tanks. My brother keeps 11).

> Some fruits
>are easier to grow than others, which brings up an interesting
>question: Have any of your characters actually raised their own food
>(vegetable)?

A pregen character in a one shot I played in was a farmer with fresh vegitables
grown in 'greenhouse-pods'.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 12
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:14:43 EDT
In a message dated 8/26/99 7:10:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lericson@****.edu writes:

> . There are already
> vegetarian soy products in RL and soy fields are rapidly becoming a
> replacement crop for many others because it can grow in more harsh
> climates.

Heh. Yup, its what 7-11 calls "Hamburgers"
Message no. 13
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:05:02 -0400
I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
Message no. 14
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:26:17 -0700
> I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.

Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in Japan,
China, and Korea will agree with me.

Soy has been in use for centuries in a variety of foods. As a vegetarian
myself I am quite well informed of some very tasty ways to prepare a variety
of soy products. From the well known Tofu to the less known use as a milk
replacement in Ice Cream. The best dishes in Asian cuisine are made with
soy. Soy Sauce is soy. The soy chocolate milk in my fridge is better than
the real thing (since I am not a vegan and therefore do drink milk I am able
to compare these).

Soy products are already today in 1999 in almost every food item that you
buy that isn't a pure unprocessed item.

Many of these products are very tasty.

Soy by itself is in fact rather tasty. Miso sauces are soy sauces for
instance. Take the beans, soak them, then grind them in a blender. You can
add a few spices to this if you want. In Korea you add a bit of Kim Chee to
it and get 'Twen-Jang' sauce which we in the USA would recognize as a form
of miso.

It's by no means a terrible disgusting product. In fact it happens to be a
favorite food of many people today all over the world.

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 15
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:58 +0200
According to Angelkiller 404, at 16:50 on 26 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> Mushrooms. In underground areas, you can grow mushrooms. Some fruits
> are easier to grow than others, which brings up an interesting
> question: Have any of your characters actually raised their own food
> (vegetable)?

I don't think they have, but we did have a character who held three
chickens (and ate real eggs every day), and one who was a small-time
farmer with a bunch of cows (which fitted with him being a Cow shaman --
although I still have trouble picturing such a character as a
shadowrunner).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:59 +0200
According to abortion_engine, at 1:05 on 27 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.

What are you talking about? Is it, in your opinion, terrible and
disgusting to look at (it's just a small bean, though), or do you mean it
tastes horrible and disgusting?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:21:22 +0300
Arcady wrote:
>
> > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>
> Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in Japan,
> China, and Korea will agree with me.
>
> Soy has been in use for centuries in a variety of foods. As a vegetarian
> myself I am quite well informed of some very tasty ways to prepare a variety

---Very Big Snip ---

> It's by no means a terrible disgusting product. In fact it happens to be a
> favorite food of many people today all over the world.
>

Em well yes... Can I have some pork please? :-)

Cybertroll

--

E-Mail : cybertroll@********.gr
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 18
From: David Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:16:11 -0400
abortion_engine wrote:
| I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
| terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
|

I have to disagree. I was raised on soy products for most of my life, and
while I really don't like the stuff, I have to say that there is a lot that
can me done with it to make it more flavorful and interesting to eat. If you
want terrible disgusting stuff, my father used to eat tofu by the slice.
Straight, raw tofu. *Shudder*.

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 19
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:56:56 +700
>| I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
>| terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>
>I have to disagree. I was raised on soy products for most of my life, and
>while I really don't like the stuff, I have to say that there is a lot that

>can me done with it to make it more flavorful and interesting to eat. If you

>want terrible disgusting stuff, my father used to eat tofu by the slice.
>Straight, raw tofu. *Shudder*.

This is a common dish in Japanese restaurants. I don't recall the Japanese name
but if you ask for cold Tofu and they know the english equivs of their menu
you'll get it.

It's a block of raw silky tofu. they pour a little soy sauce over it, then sprinkle
some ground ginger and green onions over it and serve up some wasabi on the
side. Suprisingly delicious and at $3.50 USA it's the cheapest thing I've ever
found in a Japanese restaurant.

Arcady the Soy-lover
Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 20
From: David Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:23:54 -0400
I mentioned:
| >want terrible disgusting stuff, my father used to eat tofu by the slice.
| >Straight, raw tofu. *Shudder*.

Then Arcady replied:
| It's a block of raw silky tofu. they pour a little soy sauce over it, then
sprinkle
| some ground ginger and green onions over it and serve up some wasabi on
the
| side. Suprisingly delicious and at $3.50 USA it's the cheapest thing I've
ever
| found in a Japanese restaurant.

Doesn't actually sound that bad, but Dad never bothered with soy sauce or
spices or anything. Tofu au natural. (ick) >8-P

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 21
From: GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:04:47 -0700
> I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.

Not only that..it causes gas...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
==============================================Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The
Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
==============================================Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Who Do You Trust? And, Who Do You Serve? - Galen
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 22
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:50:16 -0700
>I don't think they have, but we did have a character who held three
>chickens (and ate real eggs every day), and one who was a small-time
>farmer with a bunch of cows (which fitted with him being a Cow shaman --
>although I still have trouble picturing such a character as a
>shadowrunner).

Does he have a milkbolt spell? I can see it now..he moo's as a geasa to cast
spells..heh



--lomion
Message no. 23
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:58:14 -0400
> > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>
> Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in Japan,
> China, and Korea will agree with me.

98% of the British would like me to think things like "Bubble and Squeek"
are good to eat, too. And I just can't eat it. I've still never gotten used
to pig snout. And Peanut Butter and Jelly pizza still makes me want to
vomit.

Just because other people like it doesn't mean it's not awful. They're just
crazy.

Oh, I am joking. Mostly.

Too many of my vegan friends make me eat things like tofu and soy burgers.
And I just don't think I'll ever get used to it. Remember all the SR
references to how blown away runners are to eat "real" meat or fruit, as
opposed to the vastly more common myco-protein? Science can do many
impressive things, but making a steak out of a plant just doesn't seem to be
one of them.

Just my two cents. My vegan friends think I'm an idiot, too.
Message no. 24
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: food
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:05:08 -0400
> > abortion engine :
> > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>
> Gurth :
> What are you talking about? Is it, in your opinion, terrible and
> disgusting to look at (it's just a small bean, though), or do you mean it
> tastes horrible and disgusting?

Yes.

:)
Message no. 25
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: food
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:40:29 +0200
> > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that it's
> > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>
> Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in Japan,
> China, and Korea will agree with me.

My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet in poor
times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat over
soy.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 26
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: food
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 05:02:00 -0400
> > > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that
it's
> > > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
> >
> > Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in
Japan,
> > China, and Korea will agree with me.
>
> My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
> prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet in
poor
> times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat over
> soy.
>
> Dennis

God bless your god-mother.
Message no. 27
From: Angelkiller 404 angelkiller404@**********.com
Subject: food
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 05:21:55 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Steinmeijer <dv8@********.nl>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Saturday, August 28, 1999 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: food


>> > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is
that it's
>> > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
>>
>> Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in
Japan,
>> China, and Korea will agree with me.
>
>My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
>prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet
in poor
>times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat
over
>soy.


I dunno. I kinda like soy sauce.

-----
AK404

http://freespeech.org/ak404/
http://gibbed.com/parasiteve/
ICQ: 2157053

"You fool, pain is my friend! Allow me to introduce you to him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!"
Message no. 28
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:48:16 -0700
> > > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that
it's
> > > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
> >
> > Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in
Japan,
> > China, and Korea will agree with me.
>
>
> Just because other people like it doesn't mean it's not awful.
> They're just crazy.
>
> Oh, I am joking. Mostly.
>
> Too many of my vegan friends make me eat things like tofu and soy burgers.
> And I just don't think I'll ever get used to it. Remember all the SR

Well yes. You may find soy distasteful. But don't suppose that means
everyone or even the majority will as well.

I would bet that there are several foods you enjoy that have a large amount
of soy in them without even you knowing it. Read the ingredients labels of
any foods you buy. Soy is in a large percentage of what's out there.


Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 29
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:56:22 -0700
> > > I think one thing everyone needs to keep in mind about soy is that
it's
> > > terrible, disgusting stuff. Let's not forget that.
> >
> > Here I have to strongly disagree. And I think 99% of the people in
Japan,
> > China, and Korea will agree with me.
>
> My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
> prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet in
poor
> times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat over
soy.

I am from a Chinese family and live in one of San Francisco's Chinatowns and
I can say that that is just your god-mother's opinion. I have also spent
several years living in Asia and am very familiar with what people eat
there, and what those of them who live here (USA) eat.

It's a main item in many Chinese, Korean and Japanese foods. For reasons of
taste not poverty. There are large parts of China where it is a preferred
ingredient. The same holds true for many parts of Korean and Japanese
cuisine as well.

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 30
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: food
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:43:13 +0200
> >My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
> >prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet
> in poor
> >times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat
> over
> >soy.
>
>
> I dunno. I kinda like soy sauce.

Soy sauce is predominantly a Indonesian ingredient.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 31
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: food
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:53:17 +0200
> > My god-mother is Chinese,...and she says that most chinese dishes are
> > prepared for meat, and that soy was only used to augment their diet in
> poor
> > times. They don't find it all that tasty, and will choose real meat over
> soy.
>
> I am from a Chinese family and live in one of San Francisco's Chinatowns
and
> I can say that that is just your god-mother's opinion. I have also spent
> several years living in Asia and am very familiar with what people eat
> there, and what those of them who live here (USA) eat.
>
> It's a main item in many Chinese, Korean and Japanese foods. For reasons
of
> taste not poverty. There are large parts of China where it is a preferred
> ingredient. The same holds true for many parts of Korean and Japanese
> cuisine as well.

I guess chinese differ from country to country then. But I must add that
when I was in Hong Kong with my friends I didn't see a whole lot of soy, the
meat replacing stuff, not the milk and other products. But I guess I stand
corrected then, seeing as how you are chinese yourself, therefor a bit
closer to the source than I am.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 32
From: Thomas thomas041179@***.de
Subject: food
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:19:23 +0200
I don't know much about the soy of today, but I can imagine what they will be able to do
with it in 60 years.
Have a look at your chips: Most of the ingredient list is chemicals...
In 60 years they will be able to alter the taste of soya to anything they like...
Message no. 33
From: Arclight arclight@*********.de
Subject: food
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:38:00 +0200
And finally, Thomas expressed himself by writing:

> I don't know much about the soy of today, but I can imagine what
> they will be able to do with it in 60 years.
> Have a look at your chips: Most of the ingredient list is chemicals...
> In 60 years they will be able to alter the taste of soya to
> anything they like...

IMO they can do these things now. Ever wondered what "natural flavours"
(hope you the translation of "natürliche Aromen" is ok) are?
Strawberry flavours are extracted from trees... ugh!

--
[arclight@*********.de]<><><><><><>[ICQ14322211]
All suspects are guilty, serious. Otherwise they
wouldn't be suspects, would they?
<><><><[http://www.datahaven.de/arclight]><><><>;
Message no. 34
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: food
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:23:09 -0700
> > I dunno. I kinda like soy sauce.
>
> Soy sauce is predominantly a Indonesian ingredient.

Well, actually it's HEAVILY used throughout Asia. Much of Chinese and
Japanese food wouldn't work without it. Especially Japanese though.

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 35
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: food
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:47:31 +0100
>>98% of the British would like me to think things like "Bubble and
Squeek"
>>are good to eat, too.

Well, it *is* only fried cabbage and potato!

obSR: I always figured food in 2060's Seattle was like in Bladerunner - lots of
krill/soy/noodle bars, with old-fashioned 'posh' restaurants tucked away, pretty
much as they are now...

J.
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Go Fische)
Subject: Food
Date: Sun Jun 17 20:40:00 2001
What is the mark up on real food compared to todays
prices in 20 57-61 in all the books real food is a
status symbol of being rather affluent. Also who would
be the major suppliers of real food (both countries
and corporations?).



Gwylly, Hungry Elven Speed Adept

A healthy dose of paranoia is necessary for living
your favorite life.

__________________________________________________
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Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
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Message no. 37
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Food
Date: Mon Jun 18 05:35:13 2001
According to Go Fische, on Mon, 18 Jun 2001 the word on the street was...

> What is the mark up on real food compared to todays
> prices in 20 57-61 in all the books real food is a
> status symbol of being rather affluent.

FASA mentioned in several books that any item not specifically given a
price should use modern prices in US dollars. For things like food, though,
I'd add the condition that that price is for the 2060s _equivalent_ -- for
most people, that'd mean they pay as much for some kind of soy or algae
junk that we pay for real food these days.

> Also who would be the major suppliers of real food (both countries
> and corporations?).

Major corporations, I would suspect, because they own just about everything
anyway :) Look through Corporate Download, it has lists of some of the
subsidiaries of the major megacorps; some of these will be food producers
(the name often tells you the corp's area of business) so you can use those
as the names on labels. Falling back on RL businesses also helps; if you
want to make them sound somewhat unfamiliar to your players, you can use
some names from another country, if you can find some.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Conformity is our tragedy
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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