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Message no. 1
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:00:17 -0700
That newbie would be me.

I've been a long time AD&Der and i've put away my Dungeon Master
Guide and I'm thinking of replacing it's spot on the game table with
Shadowrun.

Maybe possibly running the Shadowrun setting with the Alternity
rules or something in between. But...that's a whole nother topic.

What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?

I can get a used 2nd edition for $15 but I don't want to get it if
I'm just going to end up buying the 3rd anyway.

If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
normal?

===
Advice wanted, frags taken.






==
AdamL

"The good die first."
"But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."

_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 2
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:15:34 -0400
Once upon a time, Adam Lewis wrote;

> If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
>normal?

Odd question. What do you mean by it?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Words. Words, they're all we have to go on."
-Guildenstern, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead

I am MC23
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:19:05 -0600
Adam Lewis wrote:
/
/ That newbie would be me.

Please do us a favor, read the FAQ. The URL is in my .sig. It will reduce
the ammount of flames that are sent your way significantly :)

/ What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?

My advice would be to wait a couple weeks until SR3 comes out.

/ I can get a used 2nd edition for $15 but I don't want to get it if
/ I'm just going to end up buying the 3rd anyway.

Or, you could wait a month and I'm sure you could find a copy of SR2 for
5-10 bucks.

/ If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
/ normal?

More or less. The biggest re-write in SR3 concerns magic. But SR2's
magic rules are pretty good. You might run into problems with SR3
adventures that are magic intense.

-David, your friendly neighborhood GridSec Assistant :)
--
dbuehrer@******.carl.org, ShadowRN GridSec: Nice Guy Division
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
Other GridSec members: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Dvixen <dvixen@********.com>
Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.net>
List Administrator: Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca>
Message no. 4
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:17:56 -0400
> That newbie would be me.
>
Hola! Welcome to the list!

> I've been a long time AD&Der and i've put away my Dungeon Master
> Guide and I'm thinking of replacing it's spot on the game table with
> Shadowrun.
>
Good man!

> Maybe possibly running the Shadowrun setting with the Alternity
> rules or something in between. But...that's a whole nother topic.
>
Um...you might want to duck now.

> What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?
>
> I can get a used 2nd edition for $15 but I don't want to get it if
> I'm just going to end up buying the 3rd anyway.
>
> If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
> normal?
>
It was just released. You can buy it NOW! No waiting! If you're
gonna buy a book anyway, spring for the newest rules. They'll have more
staying power if you end up getting involved in SR long term.

> Advice wanted, frags taken.
>
I know nothing about Alternity other than that is has
nifty cover art, but if you just want to run Cyber genre games you can
run anything you want. SR is designed to pick up non gamers as new
converts so its designed to be simple (sometimes it is sometimes it
ain't but they try). It also has lots of nifty stuff that you can add in
as you see fit. I tend to run light on magic in my games, I know people
who run nothing but magic. Its a neat setting and functional rules.

> "The good die first."
> "But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
> patterns."
>
Nice sig.
Message no. 5
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:22:26 -0700
---bryan.covington@****.COM wrote:

> It was just released. You can buy it NOW! No waiting! If
you're
> gonna buy a book anyway, spring for the newest rules. They'll have
more
> staying power if you end up getting involved in SR long term.


I perused the 3rd edition a little bit at GenCon last weekend. But
wasn't convinced to buy it.

Strangely enough though, he talked me into playing a demo of the SR
CCG and i was impressed. It was the first card game I ever played and
I liked the characters/gear/etc, all which come from the rpg, so I'm
going to give it a try.

If I wait for the 3rd it'll be a couple weeks before it gets to
Misery (missouri).



==
AdamL

"If A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is
play. Z is keep your mouth shut."



_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:35:44 -0700
---David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> wrote:

> More or less. The biggest re-write in SR3 concerns magic. But SR2's
> magic rules are pretty good. You might run into problems with SR3
> adventures that are magic intense.


Are you saying that SR3 will have MORE magic, or just a revamp of
some rules?

I don't really want to use magic, or at least very little.



==
AdamL

"If A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is
play. Z is keep your mouth shut."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 7
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:41:36 +0100
And verily, did Adam Lewis hastily scribble thusly...
|What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?

You might as well now.
All furure books will most likely be SR3 based.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 8
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:41:38 -0400
Once upon a time, Bryan Covington wrote;

> I know nothing about Alternity other than that is has
>nifty cover art, but if you just want to run Cyber genre games you can
>run anything you want. SR is designed to pick up non gamers as new
>converts so its designed to be simple (sometimes it is sometimes it
>ain't but they try). It also has lots of nifty stuff that you can add in
>as you see fit. I tend to run light on magic in my games, I know people
>who run nothing but magic. Its a neat setting and functional rules.

Well....
Shadowrun 1 was originally written for advanced players, FASA discovered
afterwards that they had attracted a following for in the younger crowd.
FASA has definitely taken this into account when writing SR3.

-Magical Campaigner 23-
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:43:26 +0100
And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Once upon a time, Adam Lewis wrote;
|
|> If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
|>normal?
|
|Odd question. What do you mean by it?

He probably means "If I get SR2, will it affect any books I might get in the
future?"

Otherwise, I'm stumped.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:49:44 +0100
And verily, did Adam Lewis hastily scribble thusly...
| Are you saying that SR3 will have MORE magic, or just a revamp of
|some rules?

Revamp. Major revamp from what I've heard so far.
There were a few... anomalies and inconsistensies in the 2nd Ed rules
concerning magic, hopefully ironed out in this edition.

| I don't really want to use magic, or at least very little.

Use it. Believe me, the Magic in Shadowrun is what gives the game it's
individuality and extra depth of plot. It's well worth considering.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 11
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:51:01 -0400
On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Adam Lewis wrote:

> Are you saying that SR3 will have MORE magic, or just a revamp of
> some rules?
>
No more no less, it's just a bit different. A revamp of some rules. It's
neither more nor less pervasive.

Drew Curtis, President, Digital Crescent, Incorporated
http://www.dcr.net (502) 226 3376 Internet and Software Design services.
Offering dial-up Access from Frankfort to Louisville and all points between.
Message no. 12
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:27:25 -0400
At 02:00 PM 8/11/98 -0700, you wrote:

> I've been a long time AD&Der and i've put away my Dungeon Master
>Guide and I'm thinking of replacing it's spot on the game table with
>Shadowrun.

Excellent choice my man.

>What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?

Wait a week or two and get SR3. Even if you decide to drop magic (as you
seemed to allude to in another post), it's generally a smoother, cleaner
and easier to understand version. SR2 wouldn't be a bad buy, if you can
get it cheap, but SR3 is a better version.

> If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
>normal?

I assume you are asking if SR2 will be compatible with new SR3 materials
and adventures.

For the most part, yes, they should be largely compatible. There will be
clear and obvious differences however, which could alter things a bit.

Go for SR3. You'll be happier in the long run.

Erik the Impatient


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 13
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:22:33 -0700
---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Adam Lewis wrote;
>
> > If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
> >normal?
>
> Odd question. What do you mean by it?


I see your point. Let me rephrase.

When they come out, will I be able to run the new 3rd edition
adventures and use 3rd edition supplements with the 2nd Edition rules
or will there be a lot of converting to do?



==
AdamL

"If A equals success, then the formula is A equals X plus Y plus Z. X is work. Y is
play. Z is keep your mouth shut."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 14
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:39:31 -0400
Once upon a time, Adam Lewis wrote;

> When they come out, will I be able to run the new 3rd edition
>adventures and use 3rd edition supplements with the 2nd Edition rules
>or will there be a lot of converting to do?

From what I've seen, 2nd to 3rd works far better than 1st to 2nd did.
Major changes are Magic and Chargen/Characters. 3rd edition suppliments
should carryover well. Anything dealing with the Astral will cause
friction and some other magic use.
P.S. Bonus, all Aspected Magicians have Astral Perception now. B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

CRY HAVOC! And let slip the flames of SR3

I am MC23
Message no. 15
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:56:32 EDT
In a message dated 8/11/98 2:12:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
adamswork@*****.COM writes:

> What I need to know is, should I wait to buy the 3rd edition?
>
> I can get a used 2nd edition for $15 but I don't want to get it if
> I'm just going to end up buying the 3rd anyway.
>
> If I get the 2nd edition book, will i be able to play just like
> normal?
>

My personal advice would be to get the the SR2 book and see if you like
Shadowrun. If you do then watch the discussion about the SR3 rules.

I would not go out and buy a lot of supplements till you know if you are going
to like the game.

Then watch the list for discussions on SR3. That way you will have an idea if
you want to change to the new rules.

Just my opinion.

Otter
Message no. 16
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:03:25 EDT
In a message dated 8/11/98 2:19:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bryan.covington@****.COM writes:

> It was just released. You can buy it NOW! No waiting! If you're
> gonna buy a book anyway, spring for the newest rules. They'll have more
> staying power if you end up getting involved in SR long term.
>

To me it would be easier for a new person to get the SR2 rules and go from
there. Especially since there are lot of modules already made for SR2 and some
of them are good starting adventures.

> > "The good die first."
> > "But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
> > patterns."
> >
> Nice sig.

I agree with Bryan. :)

Otter
Message no. 17
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:11:07 EDT
In a message dated 8/11/98 2:50:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> | I don't really want to use magic, or at least very little.
>
> Use it. Believe me, the Magic in Shadowrun is what gives the game it's
> individuality and extra depth of plot. It's well worth considering.
>

Some of my friends refuse to play SR because of the magic. They tend to stick
to Cyberpunk and CyberGen.

On the other hand, I like SR because of the magic. I usually tend to run a
very magic orientated game where cyberware is bad.

IMHO.

Otter
Message no. 18
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 01:43:24 EDT
In a message dated 8/11/1998 4:50:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> | I don't really want to use magic, or at least very little.
>
> Use it. Believe me, the Magic in Shadowrun is what gives the game it's
> individuality and extra depth of plot. It's well worth considering.
>
Ah now come on, if he doesn't want to use Magic very much (as he does say very
little), then he should feel free to do so. His game wouldn't be the first to
go with this option, nor will it be the last.

But I would suggest, like Spike has, to utilize the magic in SR for many
different reasons.

-K
Message no. 19
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:06:23 +1200
Quoth MC23 (1640 12-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
> From what I've seen, 2nd to 3rd works far better than 1st to 2nd
did.
>Major changes are Magic and Chargen/Characters. 3rd edition suppliments
>should carryover well. Anything dealing with the Astral will cause
>friction and some other magic use.

Ah, man, and I'd just gotten used to SR2 magic. SR3 magic rules with
SR2 initiation (until MitS comes out) could prove interesting...

> P.S. Bonus, all Aspected Magicians have Astral Perception now.
B>]#

HALLELUJAH!!!! That'd been bugging me for months. Now ol' shamanic
sorcerer Skywalker can actually do everything he could in the movies:
see/talk to (but not summon) spirits, fight in melee while blindfolded,
cast spells...

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
Sorry, folks, but I've been on a Star Wars high ever since the
Special Edition came out on tape...
Message no. 20
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 02:42:00 -0500
> If I wait for the 3rd it'll be a couple weeks before it gets to
> Misery (missouri).

Oh no... It'll be here quicker than that if I have anything to do with it.
What part of the state are you in?

If you're near KC, I'll point you to the used store that has my old SR2
hardback. (I think a paperback too). But $15 (or half of whatever the cover
price is) is about what you're going to pay for used just about no matter
how long you wait (at a store, that is). If you had talked to me a week or
two ago, you coulda beat what Monty's bought mine for (20% of cover!).

Besides...amazon.com is good and quick. And FASA will mail it to ya...

-Dave-
Message no. 21
From: Shadowrunner <nocturnal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:38:37 +0000
David Goth wrote:
>
> > If I wait for the 3rd it'll be a couple weeks before it gets to
> > Misery (missouri).
>
> Oh no... It'll be here quicker than that if I have anything to do with it.
> What part of the state are you in?
>
> If you're near KC, I'll point you to the used store that has my old SR2
> hardback. (I think a paperback too). But $15 (or half of whatever the cover
> price is) is about what you're going to pay for used just about no matter
> how long you wait (at a store, that is). If you had talked to me a week or
> two ago, you coulda beat what Monty's bought mine for (20% of cover!).
>
> Besides...amazon.com is good and quick. And FASA will mail it to ya...
>
> -Dave-

Woohooo! Others from Missouri! If you're in the St. Louis Area, check with the Fantasy
Shop... they usually have lots of goodies.

Nocturnal
Message no. 22
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Frag the Newbie
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:56:22 -0700
>> Are you saying that SR3 will have MORE magic, or just a revamp of
>> some rules?
>I don't really want to use magic, or at least very little.
>>
>No more no less, it's just a bit different. A revamp of some rules. It's
>neither more nor less pervasive.

I would agree. Magic is no more or less crucial than before; althogh
there will be magic focused products, there will also be tech focused ones
(MaM, and RAS).
Mages in SR3 are still a big "threat" to mundanes. However, they do not
start at quite the (relatively) high power level they did in the past, or
climb as quickly. Also, counter measures to magic are more effective. Two
mages can cooperate to erect a barrier that NO astral mage will likely get
through, given time. Spell defense counters a casters spellcasting
successes, blocking area effect spells as easily as targeted ones. Other
features bring magic activities more in line with mundane, both mechanics and
power wise, so you could run a no-magic campaign, conceivably, and not have it
disrupted by magic's occasional appearance.

Mongoose

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