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Message no. 1
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:57:14 -0400
Lehlan Decker wrote:
>> > ease of use. And it was free. I'm sure there were attempts to
>> > develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
>> > of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
>> > you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
>>
>> I think this statement needs an analogy.
>>
>> Compare Windows 95 to Linux with X-Windows. =)
>>
>Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
>same investments behind it, because there's little to no money

I dunno about that - there are several companies making plenty of
money off of Linux. Caldera and Red Hat to name two obvious ones.

>being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
>but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.

You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)

Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)

>Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
>work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
>market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides

Well, apart from Doom, Quake, Quake II, Abuse and Golgotha. Yeah,
it's pretty much all id guys, but the situation's improving.

>a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
>in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
>OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
>want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
>down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
>by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.

No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
on schedule.

James Ojaste
Message no. 2
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:24 -0500
>
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >>
> >Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> >same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
>
> I dunno about that - there are several companies making plenty of
> money off of Linux. Caldera and Red Hat to name two obvious ones.
>
True. But look at the problems Microsoft caused Caldera.
And when you compare volume of sales? Linux has come a long way, but
its fighting an uphill battle. Besides have you seen a linux commercial
on TV yet. :)

> >being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
> >but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
>
> You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
> a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
> spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
> package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)
>
> Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
> forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
> the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)
>
StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
(I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
with in my free time :)).
Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)

> >Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
> >work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> >market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
>
> Well, apart from Doom, Quake, Quake II, Abuse and Golgotha. Yeah,
> it's pretty much all id guys, but the situation's improving.
>
True. Id is ahead of their time. But once again, look at the sheer
number of companies. Do you think Id makes more money off their DOS
based version or their linux versions?


> >a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> >in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
> >OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> >want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> >down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> >by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
>
> No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
> when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
> on schedule.
>

Same difference. Besides why else do people actually buy software vs
"stealing" it? So they can call the company complain, and ask questions.

I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as FASA's
way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
Message no. 3
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:10:50 -0500
Lehlan Decker wrote:

> > You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
> > a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
> > spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
> > package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)

Not bad but it's not office97 I don't know for sure as I've heard they
plan to make StarOffice able to read and write into Office97 formated
files? Which is "The standard" weather anyone likes it or not. Many
people take it for granted that people can read MSWord formated
documents and other office generated data files...


> >
> StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
> (I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
> with in my free time :)).
> Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)

JOVE is better yet :)
Message no. 4
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:42:39 -0400
Lehlan Decker wrote:
[linux stuff snipped to GridSec's eternal delight... :-) ]
>> >but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
>>
>> You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
>[snip]
>> Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
>> forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
>> the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)
>>
>StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
>(I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
>with in my free time :)).

Don't use O97. Or O95, for that matter. Well, apart from MS-Access,
but that's not what we're talking about...

>Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)

Not that it matters that much anymore - have you ever seen Emacs
running nvi in a window, running emacs in a window? :-)

[more linux stuff snipped]
>> >The masses
>> >want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
>> >down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
>> >by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
>>
>> No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
>> when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
>> on schedule.
>
>Same difference. Besides why else do people actually buy software vs
>"stealing" it? So they can call the company complain, and ask questions.

I buy software because I can. When I had no source of income, sure
I copied games - $80 CDN is pretty hefty for a game (WCII, IIRC).
Now that I have money, I buy them (when I think I have time to spend
playing them, which isn't often).

>I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
>to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
>forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as FASA's
>way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
>It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.

Yeah - FASA just wiped out computer tech because they couldn't
predict where it would go.

James Ojaste
Message no. 5
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:08:18 -0500
>
> Lehlan Decker wrote:

> >Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)
>
> Not that it matters that much anymore - have you ever seen Emacs
> running nvi in a window, running emacs in a window? :-)
>
Yep, you can do almost anything with emacs, isn't it scary. The only
reason I know vi at all, is so I can edit files, so I can install
emacs on whatever I'm on. :)
<SNIP>

> >I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
> >to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
> >forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as
FASA's
> >way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
> >It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.
>
> Yeah - FASA just wiped out computer tech because they couldn't
> predict where it would go.
>
You got it. And honestly I can't blame them. I work in the industry (as
it seems alot of us do), and keeping up with the day to day stuff is
tough, must less planning a year or five ahead.
Heh..that is why I've kinda been laughing at the latest computer threads.
I don't think FASA meant for there to be a straight correlation between
decks and modern day hardware. Sometimes things are just plot hooks,
and abstraction. :) STill it makes the day go faster.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.

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