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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:37:47 -0500
A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is going
to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
decides to put on some armor, what happens?

IMO, the extra (worn) armor helps more than if it was being layered over
normal armor and thus you'd add both together at full value. However, I
can see how an argument could be made for even saying use the higher of
the two only ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:49:46 +1000
D. Ghost writes:
> A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is going
> to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
> decides to put on some armor, what happens?

In my opinion, this would work like Dermal Armour, and so the Immunity gets
added to the normal armour. So, with an armour jacket of 5/3, you now have
9/7 vs Normal Weapons (Ranged).

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 3
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:41:43 -0400
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, D. Ghost wrote:

->A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is going
->to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
->decides to put on some armor, what happens?
->
->IMO, the extra (worn) armor helps more than if it was being layered over
->normal armor and thus you'd add both together at full value. However, I
->can see how an argument could be made for even saying use the higher of
->the two only ...

The incoming fire would be reduced in power by the armor first.
If the remaining power of the weapon was enough to get through the
immunity to normal weapons, it would need to be resisted in a damage
resistance test, if not, it'd do no damage period. Nice idea, I might use
it. Thanks!

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:17:38 EDT
In a message dated 9/10/98 7:33:27 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

> ->A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is going
> ->to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
> ->decides to put on some armor, what happens?
> ->
> ->IMO, the extra (worn) armor helps more than if it was being layered over
> ->normal armor and thus you'd add both together at full value. However, I
> ->can see how an argument could be made for even saying use the higher of
> ->the two only ...
>
> The incoming fire would be reduced in power by the armor first.
> If the remaining power of the weapon was enough to get through the
> immunity to normal weapons, it would need to be resisted in a damage
> resistance test, if not, it'd do no damage period. Nice idea, I might use
> it. Thanks!

I'd use the layering of armor rules in the SR3 though. Just consider the
spirit's immunity as nothing more than additional armor.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 5
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:28:41 -0500
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:41:43 -0400 David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
writes:
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, D. Ghost wrote:
>->A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is
going
>->to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
>->decides to put on some armor, what happens?
>->
>->IMO, the extra (worn) armor helps more than if it was being layered
over
>->normal armor and thus you'd add both together at full value. However,
I
>->can see how an argument could be made for even saying use the higher
of
>->the two only ...

> The incoming fire would be reduced in power by the armor first.
>If the remaining power of the weapon was enough to get through the
>immunity to normal weapons, it would need to be resisted in a damage
>resistance test, if not, it'd do no damage period. Nice idea, I might
use
>it. Thanks!
>
>Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
<SNIP>

No ... thank YOU ... That's MUCH more evil than what I had in mind ...
(basicly the immunity first, then if it got through, the armor ...)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:00:28 -0400
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, D. Ghost wrote:

<snip question>
->> The incoming fire would be reduced in power by the armor first.
->>If the remaining power of the weapon was enough to get through the
->>immunity to normal weapons, it would need to be resisted in a damage
->>resistance test, if not, it'd do no damage period. Nice idea, I might
->>use it. Thanks!
->>
->No ... thank YOU ... That's MUCH more evil than what I had in mind ...
->(basicly the immunity first, then if it got through, the armor ...)

Well, spirits get their immunity from normal weapons not from some
armor that's surrounding them but from what they actually are: pieces of
astral space made physcial. Also, spirits recover one box on their
condition monitor for every minute they spend outside of combat (Grimoire,
I forget the page, maybe it was only free spirits but it could apply to
all of them). This regeneration is due to the fact that they're made out
of the fabric of reality itself, so how are a few bullet holes going to
affect it for long?
Spirits, free spirits in particular, in human form and wearing
armor are VERY dangerous adversaries... especially since they can run,
rest for less than 10 minutes, and come back fully healed. Some more
EvilGM (tm) candy for everyone!

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 7
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:09:14 -0700
:A free spirit with the human form power and and spirit energy 2 is going
:to get 4 points of immunity to normal weapons. If that free spirit
:decides to put on some armor, what happens?
:
:IMO, the extra (worn) armor helps more than if it was being layered over
:normal armor and thus you'd add both together at full value. However, I
:can see how an argument could be made for even saying use the higher of
:the two only ...


Vampiric Pawns are in the same boat; metahumans with immunity to
natural weapons. We just added the immunity on; it's NOT armor, it just
reduces the power of the attack. If that attack is already weakened by
armor, well, lucky for the "monster", ain't it?
If the critter had the "armor" or "hardened armor" power, the
situation would be different, I suppose.


Mongoose
Message no. 8
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:02:27 -0400
Mike Bobroff wrote:
<snip>

> I'd use the layering of armor rules in the SR3 though. Just consider the
> spirit's immunity as nothing more than additional armor.
>
> -Herc


That's the way I do it. Free spirits in human form with immunity to
normal weapons (including Jett) get composite armor equal to whatever
the rating is. I treat it as a bonus to regular armor, much like
orthoskin. But that's just me.


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 9
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Free Spirits in Human form and layered armor
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:10:05 -0500
On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:02:27 -0400 Jett <zmjett@*********.COM> writes:
>Mike Bobroff wrote:
><snip>
>> I'd use the layering of armor rules in the SR3 though. Just consider
the
>> spirit's immunity as nothing more than additional armor.
>>
>> -Herc

>That's the way I do it. Free spirits in human form with immunity to
>normal weapons (including Jett) get composite armor equal to whatever
>the rating is. I treat it as a bonus to regular armor, much like
>orthoskin. But that's just me.
>
>
>--Jett
<SNIP Sig>

The snag is whether it applies before or after the armor reduction from
normal armor. (At least in SR3 ... SR2 didn't have this problem ...)

If a Free Spirit in human form with a Spirit Energy of 2 (thus giving it
4 points of armor from Weapon Immunity) gets shot by a Hold-Out (damage
4L), then the spirit ignores the attack.

If the same spirit is shot by a light pistol (damage 6L), then the spirit
has to resist 2L damage.

If the same spirit is wearing a lined coat (armor of 4/2 for a total of
8/6 armor) when shot by a light pistol (damage still 6L), does the spirit
ignore the damage or resist -2L (effectively 2L) damage?

If the weapon power is reduced by the immunity first then the armor, the
spirit still has to roll to resist damage.

If the weapon power is reduced by the armor first then the immunity, the
spirit ignores the damage.

IMO, the last case (originally proposed by David Foster, IRC) makes the
most sense. :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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