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From:	scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:59:05 +0100

Message no. 1 Hello,

I was wondering if I would be able to get the French SR products in
PDF format as well. German, etc.

--
Â·ð‘•ð‘’ð‘ªð‘‘
Â·ð‘£ð‘ºð‘¦ð‘•ð‘©ð‘¯ Scott
Harrison

From:	Arkane@********.de (Arkane)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:11:35 +0100

Message no. 2 Scott Harrison schrieb:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering if I would be able to get the French SR products
> in PDF format as well. German, etc.
>
> --Â·ð��ð��ð��ªð��
Â·ð��£ð��ºð��Šð��ð��©ð��¯
Scott Harrison
>
>
>
>
I donÂ�t know about the possibility of french SR products, but there will
be NO german products in PDF format (FanPro fears the possibility of
illegal sharing).

Arkane

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:33:36 +0100

Message no. 3 According to Arkane, on 13-2-06 12:11 the word on the street was...

> I donÂ�t know about the possibility of french SR products, but there will
> be NO german products in PDF format (FanPro fears the possibility of
> illegal sharing).

Right, as if not releasing PDFs is going to prevent that. All it takes
is one person with a scanner, a p2p program, too much free time, and a
resistance to the boredom resulting from scanning a 200-page book ...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In een nieuw seizoen gaan we alles anders doen.
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:29:59 -0500

Message no. 4 At 10:33 AM 2/13/2006, Gurth wrote:
>According to Arkane, on 13-2-06 12:11 the word on the street was...
>
>>I donÂ´t know about the possibility of french SR products, but there
will
>>be NO german products in PDF format (FanPro fears the possibility of
>>illegal sharing).
>
>Right, as if not releasing PDFs is going to prevent that. All it takes is
>one person with a scanner, a p2p program, too much free time, and a
>resistance to the boredom resulting from scanning a 200-page book ...

Or a scanner with an automatic document feeder.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman

From:	bulletraven@***********.com (Peter Mellett)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:52:18 +0000

Message no. 5 Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
> At 10:33 AM 2/13/2006, Gurth wrote:
>> According to Arkane, on 13-2-06 12:11 the word on the street was...
>>
>>> I donÂ�t know about the possibility of french SR products, but there
>>> will be NO german products in PDF format (FanPro fears the
>>> possibility of illegal sharing).
>>
>> Right, as if not releasing PDFs is going to prevent that. All it
>> takes is one person with a scanner, a p2p program, too much free
>> time, and a resistance to the boredom resulting from scanning a
>> 200-page book ...
>
> Or a scanner with an automatic document feeder.
>
> --
> Timothy J. Lanza
> "When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
>
>
>
>
The thought of somebody ripping the spine off a Shadowrun book makes me
sad inside. :(

I really don't see the problem here, Why wouldn't FanPro want to release
it's different language versions of the game? It means that the
Hardcopy-to-pass-around and PDF-on-laptop for GM model of gaming doesn't
work.

And, like has been said, one person with the persistence to scan it,
will. They might as well make money off the people who want a PDF form
than lose out completely.

Pete,
"That Shadowrun Guy"

From:	tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:27:08 -0500

Message no. 6 At 01:52 PM 2/13/2006, Peter Mellett wrote:
>The thought of somebody ripping the spine off a Shadowrun book makes me
>sad inside. :(

It makes me laugh. I mean, the FASA books did it by themselves... and /now/
it takes /effort/? :)

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman

From:	snicker@*********.net (Snicker)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:19:32 -0600

Message no. 7 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Mellett [mailto:bulletraven@***********.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 06:52 PM
>
> The thought of somebody ripping the spine off a Shadowrun book makes me
> sad inside. :(
>
> I really don't see the problem here, Why wouldn't FanPro want to release
> it's different language versions of the game? It means that the
> Hardcopy-to-pass-around and PDF-on-laptop for GM model of gaming doesn't
> work.
>
> And, like has been said, one person with the persistence to scan it,
> will. They might as well make money off the people who want a PDF form
> than lose out completely.
>
> Pete,
> "That Shadowrun Guy"

Pete, I cry everytime I see the results, m'self. The short answer is
"profit." FanPro (quite rightly, I might add) sees PDFs as cutting into
potential hardcopy profits. They can already see the results of amatuer
copying and distribution of their work - why speed it up, invest the 100
hours of work to "do it right" and not only NOT recover the production and
distribution cost of the PDF, but actually cut into their own hard-copy
profits as well!!

That being said - poke your nose around the 'net enough, and you'll find
what you're looking for. (C'mon - yer shadowrun fans, put those skillz to
work!) I have seen the presence of certain products in German and
Spanish. Can't recall seeing French, however. The main rulebook I have
not see outside of English-language - and that was the retail distro.

Me, personally? I prefer the hardback. Even if I don't play SR4, it's
still one of my favourite books, just for style and presentation (although
I like the first-ed art better).

Snicker

From:	adamj@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:20:33 -0700

Message no. 8 On 13-Feb-06, at 5:19 PM, Snicker wrote:

> Pete, I cry everytime I see the results, m'self. The short answer
> is "profit." FanPro (quite rightly, I might add) sees PDFs as
> cutting into potential hardcopy profits. They can already see the
> results of amatuer copying and distribution of their work - why
> speed it up, invest the 100 hours of work to "do it right" and not
> only NOT recover the production and distribution cost of the PDF,
> but actually cut into their own hard-copy profits as well!!

I have not seen or heard any evidence from anyone or any game company
in the industry that companies selling PDFs cut into hard-copy sales.
Furthermore, I've never done work for a company who wasn't *making*
money on PDF sales, above and beyond the additional production costs
they incur.

It would be wise, in this discussion, to distinguish between FanPro
LLC, who does sell PDFs, and FanPro GmbH, who does not.

cheers,
Adam

From:	scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:23:18 +0100

Message no. 9 On Feb 14, 2006, at 4:20 , Adam Jury wrote:

>
> On 13-Feb-06, at 5:19 PM, Snicker wrote:
>
>> Pete, I cry everytime I see the results, m'self. The short answer
>> is "profit." FanPro (quite rightly, I might add) sees PDFs as
>> cutting into potential hardcopy profits. They can already see the
>> results of amatuer copying and distribution of their work - why
>> speed it up, invest the 100 hours of work to "do it right" and not
>> only NOT recover the production and distribution cost of the PDF,
>> but actually cut into their own hard-copy profits as well!!
>
> I have not seen or heard any evidence from anyone or any game
> company in the industry that companies selling PDFs cut into hard-
> copy sales. Furthermore, I've never done work for a company who
> wasn't *making* money on PDF sales, above and beyond the additional
> production costs they incur.
>
> It would be wise, in this discussion, to distinguish between FanPro
> LLC, who does sell PDFs, and FanPro GmbH, who does not.
>

This was my point of confusion. I did not understand why "FanPro"
delivers English PDFs but would refuse to do German. But since they
are two different "FanPro" entities that explains it. Personally I
would think the PDF version would have a greater profit margin and in
the long run would generate more revenue. Too bad the German company
sees PDF as a loss.

--
Â·ð‘•ð‘’ð‘ªð‘‘
Â·ð‘£ð‘ºð‘¦ð‘•ð‘©ð‘¯ Scott
Harrison

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:09:49 +0100

Message no. 10 According to Peter Mellett, on 13-2-06 19:52 the word on the street was...

> Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
>>
>> Or a scanner with an automatic document feeder.

Yep, if you don't care about destroying your book that's also a definite
option.

> The thought of somebody ripping the spine off a Shadowrun book makes me
> sad inside. :(

Oh, I don't know -- say everyone in your group wants the book but nobody
wants to pay the full price for it ... so you all chip in, buy the book,
rip it apart, and hand everyone a CD-ROM with the scans.

> They might as well make money off the people who want a PDF form
> than lose out completely.

That was my thought, too, and I for one would much prefer a PDF made
from the original DTP-program files, from which I can copy-and-paste
text and that's fairly small in size, over a poorly-scanned PDF full of
JPEGs that I can't select anything in.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In een nieuw seizoen gaan we alles anders doen.
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:10:44 +0100

Message no. 11 According to Timothy J. Lanza, on 13-2-06 23:27 the word on the street
was...

> It makes me laugh. I mean, the FASA books did it by themselves... and
> /now/ it takes /effort/? :)

I've never really had that problem, except for the covers coming off one
or two books I used very heavily. Now Paranoia books by West End Games,
on the other hand ...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
In een nieuw seizoen gaan we alles anders doen.
-> Former NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	scott@**********.com (Scott Harrison)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:18:50 +0100

Message no. 12 On Feb 14, 2006, at 11:09 , Gurth wrote:

>
>> They might as well make money off the people who want a PDF form
>> than lose out completely.
>
> That was my thought, too, and I for one would much prefer a PDF
> made from the original DTP-program files, from which I can copy-and-
> paste text and that's fairly small in size, over a poorly-scanned
> PDF full of JPEGs that I can't select anything in.
>

Exactly. This is why I am purchasing the PDF versions of the
books. I have stopped purchasing the books themselves because of my
travels and because I enjoy playing SR with my laptop. I may as well
have an indexed searchable set of books on the machine. I love being
able to use Spotlight and type in "Cat Troll" and have Universal
Brotherhood pop up! Since I do have a copy of all the books except
for the last 3, as well as all the Earthdawn books I might just get
them all for the collection's sake, but at the present the PDFs are
the way to go! I just cannot wait to get them all. I know there is
a lot of work to get them out properly, but I am impatient. :-)

--
Â·ð‘•ð‘’ð‘ªð‘‘
Â·ð‘£ð‘ºð‘¦ð‘•ð‘©ð‘¯ Scott
Harrison

From:	mattness@.pl (mattness@.pl)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:23:04 +0100

Message no. 13 Adam wrote:

> I have not seen or heard any evidence from anyone or any game company in
> theindustry that companies selling PDFs cut into hard-copy sales.
> Furthermore,I've never done work for a company who wasn't *making* money
> on PDF sales,above and beyond the additional production costs they incur.
>
> It would be wise, in this discussion, to distinguish between FanPro LLC,
> whodoes sell PDFs, and FanPro GmbH, who does not.
>
> Adam

So, if I and my polish friends will do polish version of some SR book (e
books from 2nd or 3th edition) whom we should contact?

Since 7 years nothing, except our one e book - adventure, was released in
polish :( (PUBLISHED: srII, src, gm, mis, ssc - not to much, isn't?)...

pls, help me guys with that one.

--
MATT
nr gadugadu - 4976496
mattness@**.pl
http://shadowrun-polska.prv.pl

From:	jeremie.bouillon@****.fr (Jeremie Bouillon)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:51:12 +0100

Message no. 14 Scott Harrison wrote:
> I was wondering if I would be able to get the French SR products in
> PDF format as well. German, etc.

The French SR4 should be out â�� printed â�� for the GenCon in Paris, late
April.

To this date, there was no announcements about a PDF line of products,
or PDF version of the printed line. It's the publisher's decision (Black
Book Editions).

However, we (I'm one of the 4 translators commissioned to do it) will
lobby them to do a PDF line, mostly along the same line as FanPro does
(that mean, *no* DRM). But I can't garantee anything.

I don't have any dates on that, but it's quite possible BBE won't talk
about it until our SR4 is out first.

--
http://shadowrun.fr

From:	info@************.com (Shadowrun Info)
Subject:	French SR4 PDF?
Date:	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:35:28 -0600

Message no. 15 >So, if I and my polish friends will do polish version of some SR book (e
>books from 2nd or 3th edition) whom we should contact?
>
>Since 7 years nothing, except our one e book - adventure, was released in
>polish :( (PUBLISHED: srII, src, gm, mis, ssc - not to much, isn't?)...
>
>pls, help me guys with that one.

You talk to me. All queries regarding sublicensing of anything
Shadowrun RPG related should be sent to info@************.com.

:: Rob Boyle ::
Shadowrun Developer for FanPro LLC
info@************.com ~ www.shadowrunrpg.com

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