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Message no. 1
From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: ?from my mind?
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 02:29:25 -0500
A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take phys.
damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light punishment
for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>

2)Has anyone else tried to base a run on one of the SR Novels? How Did it work?

3)OFF TOPIC <gasp, The Kumquat, Mr "please keep to the subject" Off topic?)
I couldn't think of where else to post this, so please either ignore or just
refrain from flamage....Does anyone know of a mailing list devoted to the SNES
Game Final Fantasy 3, or even something similar like one for cartridge RPGs or
whatever? (Please don't tell me rec.games.video.nintendo..... I dont have a
newsreader....)

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 22:38:35 +0930
The Kumquat wrote:
>
> A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
> 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
> points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take phys.
> damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
> must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light punishment
> for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>
>

*shrug* It all depends... Lets face it, even a moderately cybered mage will
probably kick butt against normals, and even sams. But up against another
magical threat? Say, oh, three or four elementals thumping away at him? An
astral mage slamming spells through a spell lock (and I've never seen a
plan for a cybermage that didn't have locks in it... munchkins always go
overboard) would hurt. Not to mention a horde of insect spirits...

And finally... Essence Drainers like the taste of the magically active
more, I've noticed... :)

> 2)Has anyone else tried to base a run on one of the SR Novels? How Did it work?

No... but if I did, I'd base it on 'Lone Wolf'.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 3
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 16:45:57 +0300
On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, The Kumquat wrote:

> A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
> 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
> points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take phys.
> damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
> must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light punishment
> for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>
you are right and of cource it is better to take physical damage becaue
you can cure yourselve better


jpante@*********.gr
Message no. 4
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@************.ORG>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 09:57:43 -0400
On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, The Kumquat wrote:

> A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
> 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
> points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take phys.
> damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
> must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light punishment
> for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>

Also, you can't access powerful magic. And, according to the
archetypes, most mages' purposes in life are to access more magic.

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@************.org> =========---------
| Give the 'net a pathway to the media: cast your YES vote to create |
| misc.news.internet.announce and misc.news.internet.discuss |
| after you read the CFV in news.announce.newgroups! |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----
Message no. 5
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:57:54 -0400
>
> On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, The Kumquat wrote:
>
> > A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
> > 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
> > points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take phys
> .
> > damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
> > must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light punishmen
> t
> > for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>
> you are right and of cource it is better to take physical damage becaue
> you can cure yourselve better
>
> jpante@*********.gr


WHAT? Yeah, right.. Think about it in role-playing terms, chummer. Which
would YOU rather have done to you -- serious Stun damage that leaves you
stumbling around whimpering for a couple of hours, or serious Physical
damage that can scar or cripple you and cause excruciating physical pain?
"Oh, that's okay, I can cure it with a spell" isn't quite the proper
motivation for something like that. Not when it's your own body and your
own pain on the line. Characters should be treated as characters, not as
sets of numbers.

Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "To really ask is to open the door
My opinions are my opinions. | to the whirlwind."
Please don't blame anyone else. | -- Anne Rice, _The Vampire Lestat_
Message no. 6
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:56:48 +0200
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:56:44 +0200 (MET DST)

> WHAT? Yeah, right.. Think about it in role-playing terms, chummer. Which
> would YOU rather have done to you -- serious Stun damage that leaves you
> stumbling around whimpering for a couple of hours, or serious Physical
> damage that can scar or cripple you and cause excruciating physical pain?
> "Oh, that's okay, I can cure it with a spell" isn't quite the proper
> motivation for something like that. Not when it's your own body and your
> own pain on the line. Characters should be treated as characters, not as
> sets of numbers.

Yeah - that's why my GM invented a new rule: Every time you cast a
spell that is very probable to cause you physical pain, you have to
make a Willpower-6 Test to do so.
My Shaman loves conjuring Force 9 Nature Spirits - which ALWAYS causes
him a Serious Wound when doing so. He does that to be able to counter
the Force 14 Elementals our GM sometimes gives to our enemies... they
easily call 4 or 5 of them and all we got is a Force 9 Nature Spirit -
and that is a bit munchkinous already... I think a lot of Munchkins
just started as usual roleplayers and they got GMs where they NEEDED
to max out their characters to stay alive.

Bye...
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Some balls are held for charity and some for fancy dress, but when |
| they're held for pleasure they're the balls that I like best..." |
| AC/DC - "Big Balls" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-8223482 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 7
From: Sebastian Vilstrup <vilstrup@*****.IHI.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: ?From my mind
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 13:59:22 +0200
the kumquat wrote:

>A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
>1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing
>magic points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you=

>take phys. damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic
>Attrib., and you must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out.
>This seems light punishment for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil
>anti-munchkin GM Grin>

Don't forget that the mage can only augment his spell's damage/whatever
roll with a number of dice from his magic pool equal to his current magic=

rating. So a mage with 4 magic/essence could only use force + 4 dice to
geek his enemy.

Another thing; No (non-masochistic) mage would cause herself physical
damage if she didn't have. Physical damage HURTS, whilst mental damage
just makes you dizzy and wobbly.
If you really wanted to do something like that you'd have to buy
platelet factory and a pain editor, and only let her cast L drain spells
(force 20 Mana dart, here I come...)

So, if you want to cyber up you'd better buy a good powerfocus too.
(I did :)

So there!
Sebastian

Psst! Niels Broberg, hvis du stadig er der, og er frisk på at spille, kan=

du jo bare skrive et brev. Jeg fik aldrig noget brev tilbage fra dig. Hej!
Message no. 8
From: James Pearley Kilbride <kilbrj@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:06:11 -0400
On Sep 4, 2:29am, The Kumquat wrote:
> Subject: ?from my mind?
> A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
> 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing
magic
> points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take
phys.
> damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
> must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light
punishment
> for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>
One of the things I have noticed with Min/Maxed mages is a lack of decent
spells that are useful and versitile. Put them in a situation they didn't
expect when creating the character and they are just a fancy civi. No I
don't think the consequences are too light. The loss of high powered spells
in the beginning and the nessecity of having to buy and bond(HUGE COST HERE)
a decent power foci really does weigh out the advantages of the min/maxed
mage, IMHO...

c/3c Kilbride

KilbrJ@***.Edu

See ya.
Message no. 9
From: Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:05:28 ADT
>On Mon, 4 Sep 1995, The Kumquat wrote and Ioannis replyed
>
>> A few Questions to anyone who wishes to bother with them....
>> 1) Does anyone else think that there are too few consequences to losing magic
>> points? Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the only minus is that you take
phys.
>> damage from drain on spells with a higher force than Magic Attrib., and you
>> must take a geas for every 2 pts lost, or burn out. This seems light
punishment
>> for cybering-up your min/maxed mage...<Evil anti-munchkin GM Grin>
>you are right and of cource it is better to take physical damage becaue
>you can cure yourselve better

Thats why we created in my group (dare i say it) an House rule!!

it goes like this

All damage taken as a result of spellcating and summoning can only
be healed
with time, no magical healing, no biotech (first aid). This was to stop
the proliferation of force 11 elementals...

_________________________________________________________________________
| _____ |
| \ \ / Don't steal,... |
| \ __/ / ...the government hates the competition |
| \ / |
| \_/ Vincent.Pellerin@***.gmc.ulaval.ca |
|________________________________________________________________________|
Message no. 10
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:15:30 -0500
SNIP

"(house rule about mage damage)- this was to stop the proliferation of force 11
elementals."

HUH? nobody in our campaign summons those, and 5 plus charismas are common
(not just on mages). They are way to expensive, even if you swing a sucess,
and just not as effective as another runner. Something else is unusual about
your campaign if those are common.
Message no. 11
From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: ??from my mind??
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:49:59 -0500
Just a minor clarification on a point that bugged me.....
Someone appended my original message with two horribly-spelled lines to the
effect that physical damage was better than mental 'cause you could heal it.
Because of that person's lack of proper quoting, this rather silly line was
attributed to me. I don't do three things: 1. Use Message Quoting (My mailer
doesn't support it, and creative quoting causes problems like this one.) 2. Make
munchkinous suggestions. 3. (Unintentionally) Misspell words. This is a pet
peeve of mine, since I majored in English in college.

PLEASE, when using quoting, specify which parts of the message are yours, and
which are the original... It's polite, and not very difficult to do. For
everyone who flamed the message, I am in complete agreement with you, but I
believe the point that was being made is that munchkins don't think that way,
and neither do the seriously twisted. (i.e. Aztlan Blood Mages, who, according
to the SB, often open wounds on their bodies to avoid mental drain, so they can
heal themselves)

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.

Support Whirled Peas.
Message no. 12
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: ??from my mind??
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:49:29 +0300
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, The Kumquat wrote:

> Just a minor clarification on a point that bugged me.....
> Someone appended my original message with two horribly-spelled lines to the
> effect that physical damage was better than mental 'cause you could heal it.
> Because of that person's lack of proper quoting, this rather silly line was
> attributed to me. I don't do three things: 1. Use Message Quoting (My mailer
> doesn't support it, and creative quoting causes problems like this one.) 2. Make
> munchkinous suggestions. 3. (Unintentionally) Misspell words. This is a pet
> peeve of mine, since I majored in English in college.
sorry but that guy was me.
>
> PLEASE, when using quoting, specify which parts of the message are yours, and
> which are the original... It's polite, and not very difficult to do. For
I had a electric shutdown when i wrote the message so it was left uncomplete.
When the electric came back and i connected again because it was left i
send it without seeing what was in. sorry again.
> everyone who flamed the message, I am in complete agreement with you, but I
> believe the point that was being made is that munchkins don't think that way,
> and neither do the seriously twisted. (i.e. Aztlan Blood Mages, who, according
> to the SB, often open wounds on their bodies to avoid mental drain, so they can
> heal themselves)
I think that the blood mages know what they do. It is better to cause
physical drain because you can heal it quicker than wait for the stun to
get healed.


jpante@*********.gr
I am the Way,the Truth and the Life (Gospel of john 14,6)
Message no. 13
From: Kelly Martin <kelly@*******.BLOOMINGTON.IN.US>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 02:04:27 EST5
"Sebastian" == Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM> writes:

>> (house rule about mage damage)- this was to stop the proliferation
>> of force 11 elementals.

Sebastian> HUH? nobody in our campaign summons those, and 5 plus
Sebastian> charismas are common (not just on mages). They are way to
Sebastian> expensive, even if you swing a sucess, and just not as
Sebastian> effective as another runner. Something else is unusual
Sebastian> about your campaign if those are common.

i can't see summoning Force 11 elementals unless healing is remarkably
easy. nobody has an 11 charisma, so the drain is either 11S or 11D
physical. with a 6 charisma, that's 6 dice against a TN of 11; the
chance of getting two successes is only 4 in 100, and the chance of
four is less than 1 in a thousand. even a Rating 5 spirit focus only
improves these odds to 12.2 in 1000 and 2 in 1000, respectively. the
conjuror _will_ take a light wound, is almost certainly going to take
a moderate wound, and stands a very good chance of a severe wound.

so what am i missing? there are mages out there who _like_ taking
severe wounds?

magical healing isn't all that reliable, especially if the caster is
the injured person. it's hard to get _lots_ of successes without
either jacking the force way up or using up all your pool dice on the
force test and leaving none for the drain test.

either i've made a mistake in my analysis, or something in the other
fellow's campaign is decidely not kosher.

k.
--
kelly martin <kelly@*******.bloomington.in.us>

You can't sue one hundred million people.
-- me, as quoted in the August 14, 1995 New York Times.
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:16:00 +0200
>One of the things I have noticed with Min/Maxed mages is a lack of decent
>spells that are useful and versitile. Put them in a situation they didn't
>expect when creating the character and they are just a fancy civi.

Which is exactly the trick to pull with **&*-ers who think they can play SR
like that game *grin*

>No I
>don't think the consequences are too light. The loss of high powered spells
>in the beginning and the nessecity of having to buy and bond(HUGE COST HERE)
>a decent power foci really does weigh out the advantages of the min/maxed
>mage, IMHO...

If you intend to create a burned-out mage, I think you have the nuyen and
Force points to bond a few foci, so that wouldn't really be the problem.
After play starts, well, it's another story entirely.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Some use for knowledge can always be found
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:16:12 +0200
>i can't see summoning Force 11 elementals unless healing is remarkably
>easy. nobody has an 11 charisma

You could make an elf char with a Charisma of 11 (or 12) if you use the "up
to 1.5 x racial max" rule. A character like that would be a kick-ass
conjurer, but not really someone I'd like to play :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Some use for knowledge can always be found
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
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Message no. 16
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:41:09 GMT
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>

> >i can't see summoning Force 11 elementals unless healing is remarkably
> >easy. nobody has an 11 charisma
>
> You could make an elf char with a Charisma of 11 (or 12) if you use the "up
> to 1.5 x racial max" rule. A character like that would be a kick-ass
> conjurer, but not really someone I'd like to play :)

there is also '+4 charisma' spell locked and 'Tailored pheromones'
though wether these should assist a 'magical' operation is
potentially debatable (nothing in the book rules says they don't).

so you can even create start up characters that can summon them for
stun drain. But like the way of getting a target number 15 (pure SR2
main book) to be manabolted at startup it does not make for a rounded
or reasonable character.

yes force 11 spirits have thier uses but lacking dice pools or threat
rating it is quite easy for a decent guy with a gun or sword to
flatten them (simple it don't have enough dice), never mind damaging
manipulations against which they get no armour at all.

A few bad guys with force 6 acid stream (+ level vs fire (i assume
thats what they like as no one said)) at 11K yen per elemental should
cause sense. (and 11k assumes you made the roll every time, yeah
right)

>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl

Mark
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:42:42 +0930
> >i can't see summoning Force 11 elementals unless healing is remarkably
> >easy. nobody has an 11 charisma
>
> You could make an elf char with a Charisma of 11 (or 12) if you use the "up
> to 1.5 x racial max" rule. A character like that would be a kick-ass
> conjurer, but not really someone I'd like to play :)

Stuff conjuring... A guy with that kind of charisma would be in the music
biz...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 18
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:00:12 -0400
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:
> [Charisma 11]
> Stuff conjuring... A guy with that kind of charisma would be in the music
> biz...

Not just music. I had an Elf with a starting Charisma of 7, he
was a Shamanic Adept(Sun). He was the 2055 equivalent of a Hollywood
Star...that got into trouble when the corp that owned his contract
decided to use his show as a test for certain illegal signals(BTL with a
twist). He, being an honorablye type guy, destroyed their plan, and went
to the shadows... He sucked at the combat, but oh well...he can persuade
or charm just about anybody...;)

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 19
From: Kelly Martin <kelly@*******.BLOOMINGTON.IN.US>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 08:13:05 EST5
"Mark" == Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK> writes:

Mark> there is also '+4 charisma' spell locked and 'Tailored pheromones'
Mark> though wether these should assist a 'magical' operation is
Mark> potentially debatable (nothing in the book rules says they
Mark> don't).

i am not nice to spell locks, they tend to get attacked at the most
inopportune moments. :)

i doubt pheromones would have _any_ effect upon an elemental. the
charisma that binds elementals is a purely mental process, and i would
refuse to consider any cyber enhancements to charisma (which i would
be dubious of in the first place) when summoning.

Mark> so you can even create start up characters that can summon them for
Mark> stun drain. But like the way of getting a target number 15 (pure SR2
Mark> main book) to be manabolted at startup it does not make for a rounded
Mark> or reasonable character.

in other words, a munchkins. i eat munchkins for breakfast. :)

k.
--
kelly martin <kelly@*******.bloomington.in.us>

It is not by their choice that Scientologists
continue to practice Scientology.
-- Andrew Milne (a Scientologist), on alt.religion.scientology
Message no. 20
From: James Pearley Kilbride <kilbrj@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:01:26 -0400
On Sep 6, 11:16am, Gurth wrote:
> Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
> >One of the things I have noticed with Min/Maxed mages is a lack of decent
> >spells that are useful and versitile. Put them in a situation they didn't
> >expect when creating the character and they are just a fancy civi.
>
> Which is exactly the trick to pull with **&*-ers who think they can play SR
> like that game *grin*
>
> >No I
> >don't think the consequences are too light. The loss of high powered
spells
> >in the beginning and the nessecity of having to buy and bond(HUGE COST
HERE)
> >a decent power foci really does weigh out the advantages of the min/maxed
> >mage, IMHO...
>
> If you intend to create a burned-out mage, I think you have the nuyen and
> Force points to bond a few foci, so that wouldn't really be the problem.
> After play starts, well, it's another story entirely.
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Some use for knowledge can always be found
> -> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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> t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>-- End of excerpt from Gurth

Thanks Gurth I appreciate the support from somebody like you. I am new and
wasn't sure how my comments would do here. See ya.
Message no. 21
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:01:24 GMT
Kelly Martin writes

> "Mark" == Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK> writes:
>
> Mark> there is also '+4 charisma' spell locked and 'Tailored pheromones'
> Mark> though wether these should assist a 'magical' operation is
> Mark> potentially debatable (nothing in the book rules says they
> Mark> don't).
>
> i am not nice to spell locks, they tend to get attacked at the most
> inopportune moments. :)
>
strange that :), probably has something to do with players that
insist on having their character wander about with spell locks active
all the time and no astral percept up or detect enemies.
by the book rule you solve this problem simply by turning off locks
usless you actively need them, really minimises the problems.

> i doubt pheromones would have _any_ effect upon an elemental. the
> charisma that binds elementals is a purely mental process, and i would
> refuse to consider any cyber enhancements to charisma (which i would
> be dubious of in the first place) when summoning.
>
I am inclined to agree with this, i just left the origonal post 'by
the book' to avoid house rules arguements.

> Mark> so you can even create start up characters that can summon them for
> Mark> stun drain. But like the way of getting a target number 15 (pure SR2
> Mark> main book) to be manabolted at startup it does not make for a rounded
> Mark> or reasonable character.
>
> in other words, a munchkins. i eat munchkins for breakfast. :)
>
i have never seen anything like this target number (except with
experience and shielding, and one npc Dawarf i met, custom designed
with reason). Munchkins do rather levae themselves open to it, the
effect of comments such as, ' oh then i get to use APDS in the
frachie spas as well', is quite wonderful.

> k.
> --
> kelly martin
>
Mark
Message no. 22
From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:05:18 +0200
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:05:16 +0200 (MET DST)

> there is also '+4 charisma' spell locked and 'Tailored pheromones'
> though wether these should assist a 'magical' operation is
> potentially debatable (nothing in the book rules says they don't).

That's wrong. The Shadowtech Sourcebook CLEARLY states that Tailored
Pheromones do NOT help in magical tests (conjuring etc.) and the +4
charisma spell only works as long as your aren't projecting on the
astral plane. As long as you are in your body, the charisma +4 WILL
help you.

Bye...
Georg
Message no. 23
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 18:16:48 +0300
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Kelly Martin wrote:
>
> so what am i missing? there are mages out there who _like_ taking
> severe wounds?
>
> magical healing isn't all that reliable, especially if the caster is
> the injured person. it's hard to get _lots_ of successes without
> either jacking the force way up or using up all your pool dice on the
> force test and leaving none for the drain test.
sorry but you can have another shaman or mage to heal you i think is not
a problem.

jpante@*********.gr
I am the Way,the Truth and the Life (Gospel of john 14,6)
Message no. 24
From: Dave Stone <dstone@******.DREAMSCAPE.COM>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:26:19 -0400
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Kelly Martin wrote:
> so what am i missing? there are mages out there who _like_ taking
> severe wounds?

My char would, but he doesn't like it. As someone mentioned
here for his char, he summoned a City Spirit to protect him and chummers
from a set of 3 Force 8 Elementals(OUCH). He was a Cha 7 Elf(Shaman, Dog
-- he rarely did anything but summoning, for casting didn't bring one as
close to one's totem as summoning, in his opinion. And he didn't summon
much, either. Didn't want to insult Dog by calling on him for trivial
things. He did cast, but not often...and he summoned a bit more.) So,
he summoned a Force 12, got a success, and paid a Karma for another. The
Spirit saved his bacon, and he freed it of its other service...as a
thank-you.

Dave

| David Stone -- dstone@******.dreamscape.com |
| "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he |
| proclaim himself, bannered across the sky in fire..." |
Message no. 25
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:25:05 GMT
> From: Georg Greve <ggreve@*******.HANSE.DE>

> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:05:16 +0200 (MET DST)
>
> > there is also '+4 charisma' spell locked and 'Tailored pheromones'
> > though wether these should assist a 'magical' operation is
> > potentially debatable (nothing in the book rules says they don't).
>
> That's wrong. The Shadowtech Sourcebook CLEARLY states that Tailored
> Pheromones do NOT help in magical tests (conjuring etc.)
obviously far too long since i read Shadowtech, comes of a 20 high
pile of sourcebooks and no time i suppose. Thanks, one FASA actually
remembered.

> and the +4
> charisma spell only works as long as your aren't projecting on the
> astral plane. As long as you are in your body, the charisma +4 WILL
> help you.
>
Yes though some GM's might disagree, i have not had to rule on that
one but would probably let folks get away with it, as per the rules.
The reason for a note here is that this is using magic to affect
magic, something usually only possible using metamagic, but done here
by a simple spell.

> Bye...
> Georg
>
Mark
Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:09:36 +0200
>> You could make an elf char with a Charisma of 11 (or 12) if you use the "up
>> to 1.5 x racial max" rule. A character like that would be a kick-ass
>> conjurer, but not really someone I'd like to play :)
>
>Stuff conjuring... A guy with that kind of charisma would be in the music
>biz...

Which is why my elven rigger/sam has bought a cheap guitar and has taken the
appropriate skill at level 2 :) And going by SB, he rarely does worse than
"Average Performance" :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will it ever be the same again?
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 27
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:09:42 +0200
>strange that :), probably has something to do with players that
>insist on having their character wander about with spell locks active
>all the time and no astral percept up or detect enemies.
>by the book rule you solve this problem simply by turning off locks
>usless you actively need them, really minimises the problems.

I had a player who played a shaman, a grade 6 initiate equipped with 2 spell
locks and a rating 2 power focus. Only another initiate could touch her, but
that was hardly likely to happen (I'm not the kind of GM who nukes a spell
lock "just because it's not masked" -- I did keep the player on his toes
about what he masked, though). When I dumped them into Chicago and the bugs
appeared, the first thing he did was switch off all foci :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Will it ever be the same again?
-> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru & NERPS Project Leader <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(--) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 28
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:24:48 GMT
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>

> I had a player who played a shaman, a grade 6 initiate equipped with 2 spell
> locks and a rating 2 power focus. Only another initiate could touch her, but
> that was hardly likely to happen (I'm not the kind of GM who nukes a spell
> lock "just because it's not masked"
no niether do i but if the scenario happens (because it was sensible)
to have an astral mage included they do make nice targets.

> -- I did keep the player on his toes
> about what he masked, though). When I dumped them into Chicago and the bugs
> appeared, the first thing he did was switch off all foci :)
>
quite sensible, ok from agame mechanics point of view they might not
be a threat but ...
Actually some things don't bother about masking i think, but i cannot
remember a suitable example off hand.
This reminds me of the group entering somewhere on the quiet, all
foci off, and dedicated mask up! they nearly got away with that, well
at least the guards checking them only wondered about chromed folks
and a masked initiate wandering into a relief camp (yep FASA
adventure) as they had no guns either (i wonder why the rigger was
outside with a van full of drones and the party gun pile :) ) a lot
better than could have been managed.

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
>

Mark
Message no. 29
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:52:29 +0930
Ioannis Pantelidis wrote:
> > magical healing isn't all that reliable, especially if the caster is
> > the injured person. it's hard to get _lots_ of successes without
> > either jacking the force way up or using up all your pool dice on the
> > force test and leaving none for the drain test.
> sorry but you can have another shaman or mage to heal you i think is not
> a problem.

I dunno... Let's face it, if you need a Force 11 spirt THAT badly, the
other mage or shaman's probably got better things to do than sustain a
healing spell on you for a few minutes...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 30
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:33:13 +0300
On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:

> Ioannis Pantelidis wrote:
> > > magical healing isn't all that reliable, especially if the caster is
> > > the injured person. it's hard to get _lots_ of successes without
> > > either jacking the force way up or using up all your pool dice on the
> > > force test and leaving none for the drain test.
> > sorry but you can have another shaman or mage to heal you i think is not
> > a problem.
>
> I dunno... Let's face it, if you need a Force 11 spirt THAT badly, the
> other mage or shaman's probably got better things to do than sustain a
> healing spell on you for a few minutes...
YES but i speak after the fight has finished. :)
Message no. 31
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ?from my mind?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:41:50 GMT
Ioannis Pantelidis writes

> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> > I dunno... Let's face it, if you need a Force 11 spirt THAT badly, the
> > other mage or shaman's probably got better things to do than sustain a
> > healing spell on you for a few minutes...
> YES but i speak after the fight has finished. :)
>
the number of times i have had to tell folks its a total waste of
time sustaining healing spells during combat.. sigh. There is
absolutely no point picking up a +2 to your target numbers for
something almost guarateed not to come off during the combat.
Note that, 'while chasing the bad guys' but not actually shooting
(etc) is a very good time to get rid of M wounds. If you want to get
rid of modifiers but are short on time use the pain resistance
spells, see GR2, as you only get 1 shot at actually curing folks and
its all wasted if you spell is not sustained all the way 'eg if the
recipient dives out of view during the time cause 5 more bad guys
came round the corner'.

Mark

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