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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Thu Apr 18 18:45:01 2002

Message no. 1 I think Wizkids & FanPro are on to something here with
this Shadows of North America Sourcebook. I think they
should do one for each continent: Shadows of Europe,
Shadows of Asia, Shadows of Africa, Shadows of South
America.

They already essentially put out a Shadows of
Australia book when they published the Awakened Lands
Sourcebook.

Also, they'll need to zero in on major cities (the
sprawls), provinces, states, and nations; so I think
thy should do a Target: [City, Province, State, or
Nation name] for each major city, province, state, or
nation.

Here are some of my suggestions:
1) Target: New York Sprawl
2) Target: DeeCee Sprawl
3) Target: L.A. Sprawl
4) Target: Philadelphia Sprawl
5) Target: Chicago Sprawl
6) Target: Detroit Sprawl
7) Target: Boston Sprawl
8) Target: San Francisco Sprawl
9) Target: St. Louis Sprawl
10) Target: Kansas City Sprawl
11) Target: Cleveland Sprawl
12) Target: Cincinnati Sprawl
13) Target: Memphis Sprawl
14) Target: Norfolk Military Sprawl
15) Target: Atlanta Sprawl
16) Target: Miami Sprawl
17) Target: L.A. Sprawl
18) Target: Orlando Sprawl
19) Target: Jacksonville Sprawl
20) Target: Tampa-St. Petersburg Sprawl
21) Target: New Orleans Sprawl
22) Target: Houston Sprawl
23) Target: Dallas Sprawl
24) Target: Oklahoma City Sprawl
25) Target: Portland, Tir Tairngire
26) Target: Minneapolis-St. Paul Sprawl
27) Target: Great Lakes Sprawl (would incl.
Oshkosh-Appleton, Milwaukee, Chicago, NW Indiana,
Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto,
Syracuse, Rochester)
28) Target: Baltimore Sprawl
29) Target: Denver Sprawl
30) Target: Phoenix
31) Target: Las Vegas
32) Target: Salt Lake City
33) Target: Indianapolis
34) Target: Pittsburgh
35) Target: San Antonio
36) Target: Richmond, VA
37) Target: Paris Sprawl
38) Target: London Sprawl
39) Target: Italian States
40) Target: Madrid
41) Target: Mexico City (Tenochtitlan)
42) Target: Berlin
43) Target: Amazonia
44) Target: Peru
45) Target: Buenos Aires
46) Target: Colombia
47) Target: Athens
48) Target: Cairo
49) Target: Israel
50) Target: Istanbul
51) Target: Azania
52) Target: Moscow
53) Target: Tír na nOg
54) Target: Great Britain
55) Target: Middle East
56) Target: India
57) Target: China
58) Target: Japan
59) Target: Beijing
60) Target: Tokyo
61) Target: Shanghai
62) Target: Hong Kong
63) Target: Bombay
64) Target: Calcutta
65) Target: New Delhi
66) Target: South East Asia War Zone
67) Target: Nairobi
68) Target: Lagos
69) Target: Montreal
70) Target: Siberia
71) Target: Manila
72) Target: Singapore
73) Target: Egypt
74) Target: Congo

__________________________________________________
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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Justin Bell)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Thu Apr 18 19:00:00 2002

Message no. 2 At 03:45 PM 4/18/2002 -0700, Scott Hiller wrote:
>I think Wizkids & FanPro are on to something here with
>this Shadows of North America Sourcebook. I think they
>should do one for each continent: Shadows of Europe,
>Shadows of Asia, Shadows of Africa, Shadows of South
>America.
>
>They already essentially put out a Shadows of
>Australia book when they published the Awakened Lands
>Sourcebook.

yeah, if only it had maps in it

--
Justin Bell
justin@******.net

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Thu Apr 18 19:10:01 2002

Message no. 3 > I think Wizkids & FanPro are on to something here with
> this Shadows of North America Sourcebook. I think they
> should do one for each continent: Shadows of Europe,
> Shadows of Asia, Shadows of Africa, Shadows of South
> America.

Umm.....think you may be on to what they've already beat you to, they're
releasing the shadows of Europe 2003 according to what I've heard based
off of the notes about the Shadows Of Germany II that was released
completely and only in german.

> Here are some of my suggestions:
> 1) Target: New York Sprawl
> 2) Target: DeeCee Sprawl
> 3) Target: L.A. Sprawl
> 4) Target: Philadelphia Sprawl
> 5) Target: Chicago Sprawl
> 6) Target: Detroit Sprawl
> 7) Target: Boston Sprawl
> 8) Target: San Francisco Sprawl
> 9) Target: St. Louis Sprawl
> 10) Target: Kansas City Sprawl
> 11) Target: Cleveland Sprawl
> 12) Target: Cincinnati Sprawl
> 13) Target: Memphis Sprawl
> 14) Target: Norfolk Military Sprawl
> 15) Target: Atlanta Sprawl
> 16) Target: Miami Sprawl
> 17) Target: L.A. Sprawl
> 18) Target: Orlando Sprawl
> 19) Target: Jacksonville Sprawl
> 20) Target: Tampa-St. Petersburg Sprawl
> 21) Target: New Orleans Sprawl
> 22) Target: Houston Sprawl
> 23) Target: Dallas Sprawl
> 24) Target: Oklahoma City Sprawl
> 25) Target: Portland, Tir Tairngire
> 26) Target: Minneapolis-St. Paul Sprawl
> 27) Target: Great Lakes Sprawl (would incl.
> Oshkosh-Appleton, Milwaukee, Chicago, NW Indiana,
> Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto,
> Syracuse, Rochester)
> 28) Target: Baltimore Sprawl
> 29) Target: Denver Sprawl
> 30) Target: Phoenix
> 31) Target: Las Vegas
> 32) Target: Salt Lake City
> 33) Target: Indianapolis
> 34) Target: Pittsburgh
> 35) Target: San Antonio
> 36) Target: Richmond, VA
> 37) Target: Paris Sprawl
> 38) Target: London Sprawl
> 39) Target: Italian States
> 40) Target: Madrid
> 41) Target: Mexico City (Tenochtitlan)
> 42) Target: Berlin
> 43) Target: Amazonia
> 44) Target: Peru
> 45) Target: Buenos Aires
> 46) Target: Colombia
> 47) Target: Athens
> 48) Target: Cairo
> 49) Target: Israel
> 50) Target: Istanbul
> 51) Target: Azania
> 52) Target: Moscow
> 53) Target: Tír na nOg
> 54) Target: Great Britain
> 55) Target: Middle East
> 56) Target: India
> 57) Target: China
> 58) Target: Japan
> 59) Target: Beijing
> 60) Target: Tokyo
> 61) Target: Shanghai
> 62) Target: Hong Kong
> 63) Target: Bombay
> 64) Target: Calcutta
> 65) Target: New Delhi
> 66) Target: South East Asia War Zone
> 67) Target: Nairobi
> 68) Target: Lagos
> 69) Target: Montreal
> 70) Target: Siberia
> 71) Target: Manila
> 72) Target: Singapore
> 73) Target: Egypt
> 74) Target: Congo

dude if you think that they're going to spit out that many books you're
on crack, sorry but it's true....only way that'd happen is if they
released them in magazine type things and could actually make enough
money off of it to get what they put into it back plus quite a bit.
After talking to a local game store owner I've found out that the
average RPG shop makes about 47% profit on every single item that they
sell, which means that out of that 30 bucks you paid for the main book
they made $14.10, figure in that the distributor also makes a decent
profit FANPRO's probably only making about $5 on each book, now knowing
what it cost me to take that same book to Kinko's and have it coil bound
I'd say that they're not making a whole hell of a lot off of each book
and it would not even come close to making them a reasonable profit due
to the time that they'd have to spend to make it.

From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 03:20:01 2002

Message no. 4 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 18-Apr-02 Scott Hiller wrote:
> Also, they'll need to zero in on major cities (the
> sprawls), provinces, states, and nations; so I think
> thy should do a Target: [City, Province, State, or
> Nation name] for each major city, province, state, or
> nation.

I don't think all the cities need their own book. The way they did it
for the German Sourcebook (2) is just enough. Every region got a chapter
and the big cities a subchapter.

All in all DitS2 is just as big as the main rulebook (if not a bit
bigger, but I don't know the exact pagenumbers :))

- Burning Avatar

----------------------------------
Ona galad a naur i lumbulo

BA's data haven
http://home.t-online.de/home/tobias.d/srmain.htm

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 05:25:01 2002

Message no. 5 At 09:14 19.04.2002 +0200, Tobias.D@********.de wrote:

<snip>

>All in all DitS2 is just as big as the main rulebook (if not a bit
>bigger, but I don't know the exact pagenumbers :))

It has 344 pages plus a foldable map (a little bit longer than DIN A4 or
letter size). It's a softcover, and thicker than my BBBe1 main book.

--
Arclight
eMail : arclight @*********.de
"If you develop rules, never have more than ten."
From Rumsfelds Rules

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 05:30:01 2002

Message no. 6 According to Tobias.D@********.de, on Fri, 19 Apr 2002 the word on the street was...

> All in all DitS2 is just as big as the main rulebook (if not a bit
> bigger, but I don't know the exact pagenumbers :))

I think it's 200-something, closer to 300 than to 200 -- but as I found 99 DM last
October to be a bit too much, I didn't buy it and so can't actually check. Maybe
http://www.fanpro.com has more information?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 05:30:18 2002

Message no. 7 According to Scott Hiller, on Fri, 19 Apr 2002 the word on the street was...

> Also, they'll need to zero in on major cities (the
> sprawls), provinces, states, and nations; so I think
> thy should do a Target: [City, Province, State, or
> Nation name] for each major city, province, state, or
> nation.

You don't by any chance think you're being a bit unrealistic, are you?
Location sourcebooks have always sold poorly for SR, which means that of
your list of 74 (!) only _very_ few could be seriously considered to be
turned into actual books. The other immediate problem I see with that list
is that it's far too detailed. Hardly anybody will be waiting for a Target:
Kansas City Sprawl (to pick the first one I came across with my mouse
pointer) except maybe a few SR players living in Kansas City -- and when
they'd buy it, they'd complain about how inaccurate it is.

IMHO, this sort of level of detail is better left to the enthusiastic
gamers writing up their home towns, rather than to FanPro.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 10:10:01 2002

Message no. 8 > I don't think all the cities need their own book. The way they did it
> for the German Sourcebook (2) is just enough. Every region got a
chapter
> and the big cities a subchapter.
>
> All in all DitS2 is just as big as the main rulebook (if not a bit
> bigger, but I don't know the exact pagenumbers :))

Exactly my point....and I think I read somewhere that it was just short
of 400 pages

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Fri Apr 19 19:40:01 2002

Message no. 9 From: "Scott Hiller" <scotthiller2002@*****.com>
<Snip Target: Waste of paper>

You forgot the obvious one:

Target: Sorø

Lars, and I promise I would buy it :-)

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Sat Apr 20 05:45:46 2002

Message no. 10 According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Sat, 20 Apr 2002 the word on the street was...

> Target: Sorø
>
> Lars, and I promise I would buy it :-)

I don't think it's very economical to print a single copy of a sourcebook and
ship it to Denmark from the US, though...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	shadowrn@*******.com (shadowrn@*******.com)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Sat Apr 20 23:55:01 2002

Message no. 11 > > I think Wizkids & FanPro are on to something here with
> > this Shadows of North America Sourcebook. I think they
> > should do one for each continent: Shadows of Europe,
> > Shadows of Asia, Shadows of Africa, Shadows of South
> > America.
>
> Umm.....think you may be on to what they've already beat you to, they're
> releasing the shadows of Europe 2003 according to what I've heard based
> off of the notes about the Shadows Of Germany II that was released
> completely and only in german.
>

Shadows of Europe is tentatively scheduled for a possible release in 2003. There hasn't
been a definate statement saying that it's going ahead. People are still submitting
material before it's decided whether it's a viable project.

[Snip massive list]

Given it a lot of thought eh? :)

As has already been stated, place books aren't great sellers. That's why they moved from
the in-depth one country books to the less detailed more broad ranging Target books. With
more places covered in a single book you get more potential customers than if just one
city is covered and people decide they're not really interested in that area.

Shadows of North America will sell because that's the default setting. Europe could sell
as an interesting alternative. Likewise, I could see a Target: South East Asia covering
countries like Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Vietnam, the Chinese warlord states in
brief etc. as that's a fairly important area in the game.

Africa was breifly covered CyberPirates and I can't really see that much interest in the
area for runners. India is kinda screwed in that it doesn't really fit into Asia or the
Middle East and since it wont get a book to itself. Nice ethnic setting but not enough to
make a whole book out of.

Well that's enough of me rambling. Think I'll shut up now. :)

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Wed May 8 16:35:05 2002

Message no. 12 From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Sat, 20 Apr 2002 the word on the street
was...
> > Target: Sorø
> >
> > Lars, and I promise I would buy it :-)
>
> I don't think it's very economical to print a single copy of a sourcebook
and
> ship it to Denmark from the US, though...

OK then I'll buy two..

You're listening to this Adam? Get your boss to produce a Target: Sorø and
I'll by both copys :-)

Lars

From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Mark M. Smith)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Thu May 9 13:50:01 2002

Message no. 13 At 4/19/02 04:15 AM, you wrote:
> Hardly anybody will be waiting for a Target:
>Kansas City Sprawl (to pick the first one I came across with my mouse
>pointer) except maybe a few SR players living in Kansas City -- and when
>they'd buy it, they'd complain about how inaccurate it is.

Kansas City Sprawl? Well... maybe if they add a lot on and maybe St. Louis
closes in on us or something, otherwise there really isn't all that much to
KC as it is. Decent ammount of suburbs, not an amazingly large downtown
area... hell I'd be pressed to write more than a few paragraphs on KC now
let alone sprawl KC. Actually, change all that... we need Kansas City,MO
Sprawl and Kansas City, KS Sprawl... just for the hell of it :)

Seriously what this reminds me of most is Rifts. They'll release two books
for various areas often or come back and revisit an area later on. The
problem is that most of the books are little more than a listing of new
overpowered classes, skills that were largely in other books, weapons more
powerful than the last, and an exacting list of how much you can expect to
pay for various grades of snow globes, but not how much the InfiniKill
DeathRay Blaster Cannon(tm) costs. Sure, occasionally they'll do some good
books, but mostly they've done it to death and even then they still only
focus on a continent or major nation.

--
Mark M. Smith
belgand@**************.com

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From:	shadowrn@*********.com (Rev. Mike Martin)
Subject:	Future Location Sourcebook Ideas
Date:	Thu May 9 14:05:04 2002

Message no. 14 "Mark M. Smith" wrote:
>
> Kansas City Sprawl? Well... maybe if they add a lot on and maybe St. Louis
> closes in on us or something, otherwise there really isn't all that much to
> KC as it is. Decent ammount of suburbs, not an amazingly large downtown
> area... hell I'd be pressed to write more than a few paragraphs on KC now
> let alone sprawl KC. Actually, change all that... we need Kansas City,MO
> Sprawl and Kansas City, KS Sprawl... just for the hell of it :)

Hey... that's not funny. ;)

On that note however, I'll have to think about what KC would be like in
that future... I've mostly only played in Seattle.

Mike
(KC, MO)

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