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Message no. 1
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 15:35:34 -0700
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OK...Quoter's broke. BUT.
As per the UCAS constitution: I believe it was NAGNA which said that
they kept the US constitution as is (except for natural-born president
and some of the deadwood (18th and 21st amemdments, which deal with
prohibition).). so, twould be as it is today. So, they'd keep the debts
(tradition from when we went from the Articles of Confederation to the
US constitution, which would be STUPID not to keep.) and stuff. As per
the corps: It's VERY possible to see Shiawase dumped in light of the
SCIRE situation. The justices (who flip between conservative and liberal
every so often, in small tilts) would likely say: "Hey, corpers. Don't
matter WHO you are. We granted you the right of extraterritoriality for
you to use RESPONSIBLY. you have NOT done so. So, it is being taken
away, right now. Mr. President, in the Court's opinion, these
corporations are *in rebellion* against the lawful government of the
United Canadian and American States. In fulfillment of your
constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws, we recommend that
you *send in the troops* to retake what was previously corporate
territory." In and of itself, such an action is possible. And y'know
what? If the Court notes that the corporations are in rebellion against
the UCAS...Haeffner will have *no choice* but to call out the military,
suspend habeas corpus, and declare a state of emergency as he attacks
the military. Otherwise, he would be almost-instantly impeached by
Congress. Possibly for treason. Point to take in though:Aren't some
corps nuke-capable? Doesn't the UCAS have nukes, too?

John Penta

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From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.cc.utexas.edu>
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To: shadowrn@*********.org
Subject: Re: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?
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I've had a _little_ experience with constitutional law (don't ask how, I'm
a chem major, haha) here in the US. As it currently stands, as far as I
know, if the Supremes ("the ultimate arbiters of justice in this
country....or nine old ninnies in black muumuus, you decide") said "pi
equals 3.14 exactly, so there", the rest of us, congress and president
included, would just have to stick that in our collective pipes and smoke
it becuase as the balance of powers is currently set up, what they say,
goes. In a sense, they are to the legal structure of this country what
root is to a unix system in that, in a sense, they ARE the legal system,
with the ability to irrevocably change the system if they see fit. This
is why the justices as a whole tend to act Veeeeeerrrrrryyyy slowly and
carefully. Even the justice who I disagree with most, Scalia, writes very
well thought out decisions usually (I just disagree totally with him on a
philosophical level on almost any legal topic you'd care to name, haha).

So, re: congress or anybody else repealing the Shiawase Decision
in the US. Forget it. It _can't_ happen, due to the way the fundamental
framework of our government is constructed. (At least, as far as I
understand it.)

This ignores the precedent (set by Jefferson? I can't recall.) of
telling the Supremes, in essence, to go screw themselves. They don't have
an enforcement arm, they just tell everyone else what should happen. If
the executive branch doesn't want to enforce that, nothing happens (this
was re: abolishing slavery in the 1820's iirc). However, the chances of
this happening in the modern era are _astronomically_ small. Like the
chances of Dan Quayle revealing he has a 180 IQ or every congressperson
currently in office simultaneously coming out of the closet about being
gay and telling stories about their past-time of heroin usage and how they
financed their campaign by selling crack to toddlers...

So, that's the way it is _now_ in the _US_. What happens to this
structure in the future when the US becomes part of some new entity called
the UCAS, is anyone's guess. Maybe they rewrite the constitution so that
edicts of the SC can be appealed by a 2/3rds majority in both houses, like
a constitutional amendment today...

Actually, that brings up an interesting side point. What happens
to all the old US debts and responsiblities (like Social Security and gov.
bonds) when it no longer exists. The UCAS could technically say something
like "hey, wasn't us!" and the receipients/debt holders couldn't really do
jack squat about it.

As far as the law changeing in the UCAS and it not applying to the
corp territories and the analogy to the UK and US independence thing, I
don't think the analogy applies too well. The corps are powerful, yes,
but they lack the raw might of a nation. Their territories are spread out
and weakly defended (from the perspective of someone who has 30 armored
divisions on immeadiate stand by and another 50 on reserve). If the UCAS
said 'frog' in this respect, the corps would have to ask 'how high should
we jump?'. True, they could threaten to pull out, but the economic loss
from losing 80% of their NA customer base, in of it's own right probably
half of their revenue source, would be devastating. I don't see a corp
going through this just to avoid paying 15-20% taxes...

*****************Michael Orion Jackson******************
***********TAMS Class of 96/UT Class of 2000************
*********************Random Quote:**********************
*"Why me?" "Because you are in Natural Sciences,silly."*
********************************************************




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Message no. 2
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 15:44:32 -0700
Eeek. That SHOULD be a reply. Hit the wrong button, sorry folks! >waits for
thwap<
Message no. 3
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:41:31 EDT
In a message dated 5/2/1999 2:48:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
cpenta@*****.com writes:

> Point to take in though:Aren't some
> corps nuke-capable? Doesn't the UCAS have nukes, too?
>
Ya know John, I was going to applaud this post, as you stated *exactly* the
method that the UCAS Government could use to approach the court with. The
Corps (thanks to the ARC) are in violation of their granted rights. Equal
(nearly so) to a person performation inviolatable acts against the rights of
another being.

However, the situation would not likely reach "nuclear" proporations, at
least not in the manner you are implying as a "posturing action."

-K
Message no. 4
From: Penta cpenta@*****.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 00:04:33 -0700
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/2/1999 2:48:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> cpenta@*****.com writes:
>
> > Point to take in though:Aren't some
> > corps nuke-capable? Doesn't the UCAS have nukes, too?
> >
> Ya know John, I was going to applaud this post, as you stated *exactly* the
> method that the UCAS Government could use to approach the court with. The
> Corps (thanks to the ARC) are in violation of their granted rights. Equal
> (nearly so) to a person performation inviolatable acts against the rights of
> another being.
>
> However, the situation would not likely reach "nuclear" proporations, at
> least not in the manner you are implying as a "posturing action."
>
> -K

Granted, it's VERY unlikely it would. Pretty much impossible. MAD would still
exist, on a huge scale. Same reason you'll probably never see a "corp war" as
postulated in Corporate Shadowfiles (That description is one I never read before
I sleep. it gives me nightmares. Guess that comes from being born as the cold
war ended (twas born in 1983), and hearing all the stuff about nukes when I was
little. Including about the effects of nukes when I was in preschool.). They
would destroy themselves, and they know it. But, could I see troops on the move
throughout most of the world, if not all of it? Yeah. I could. Very easily.
Though, another, more likely point: Look to the modern world. In the real world,
US Supreme Court and other court decisions are OFTEN used in virtually every
other country which uses English Common Law as its legal basis. Meaning, Canada,
Britain...a lot of commonwealth countries. Once the UCAS Supreme Court overturns
Shiawase, you'll see pretty much every other country in the world do so too,
perhaps even in a matter of hours or days. Y'know what would be fun if anybody
wants to go this route in their games: Take the time to write a Supreme Court
Decision on this as a prop. Post it to, say, Deep Resonance....If FASA decides
to see this, I'd recommend taking a look. Which brings out a question: Anybody
from FASA ever say anything on troop strengths for various nations and
corporations? I note the UCAS, as of NAGNA (was it NAGNA? Maybe Seattle
Sourcebook (old one)) has the draft again, in the form of a "Federal Military
Induction Quota". Could even design a full war around that list of troop levels
if they wanted to. Which, in and of itself, would kick ass.

John
Message no. 5
From: Dark Steel seattle2052@*******.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:08:57 PDT
<<SNIP>>
> Granted, it's VERY unlikely it would. Pretty much impossible. MAD would
>still
>exist, on a huge scale. Same reason you'll probably never see a "corp war"
>as
>postulated in Corporate Shadowfiles (That description is one I never read
>before
>I sleep.

I have to disagree. As a study of world history (Self taught not course
study) I have seen time and time again a small action followed by alot of
saber rattling is enough to disuade almost anybody and get them second
guessing the correctness of thier own position. Take the Cuban Missle Crisis
for example. Cuba went Comi, Castro calls the USSR. They say "Sure what the
hell, it gives us political leverage." Next thin we know Russia claims to
have missle pointed at us and they are building more on Cuba. Now JFK needs
to do something for the sake of national security so be blockades Cuba. Now
the entire US thinks that they are in real danger of being nuked. Tensions
mount and the USSR eventually backs down.

REALITY CHECK:: The USSR had no more than 15 warheads only 1 or 2 of which
stood a remote chance of landing near American soil. Yet after several
nuclear tests and flashy retoric they had the entire contenintal(sp) United
States shaking in thier boots.

SR LINK:: All it take is a small but vicious action by any Corp. then some
tough talk and then MAD becomes a very real tactic again.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Dark Steel

"Meet James Ensor, Belgium's favorite painter,
Dig him up and shake his hand, appriciate the man....."

-They Might Be Giants


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Message no. 6
From: Kevin Dole kdole@***.vsc.edu
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:44:45 EST5EDT
> Penta <cpenta@*****.com>
> Congress. Possibly for treason. Point to take in though:Aren't some
> corps nuke-capable? Doesn't the UCAS have nukes, too?

Aeres did Bug City with a littl'un, and think they also made
Atzlan an offer.
Aztechnology, being the big force of Atzlen, has them.
Pueblo Corp. Council prob'ly does, as they are also a national

I wouldn't be at all surprised if folks like Fuchi, Renraku (sp) and
a quite a few others have nucleonic capability. We know that Sader-
Krupp has a chemical one, among otherr people, and brewing
biowar agent wouldn't be at all hard for any of the geneering corps.

As for the person point out that we are sounding nuke happy,
you may be right. However, there is nothing that says you can't
take out your OWN facilities with a tiny "clean" devise, and then
blame it on someone else. I don't much, outside of what I've read on
this list, about the shutdown of the Seattle Archology, but from what
I've gathered, dropping a baby nuke on it would render the issue null
and void, and they could blame the UCAS, or the Tir, or Atzlan, or
Aeres, and go for a publicity blitz about being the victems.

As for how to attack a corp, find a copy of Heinlien's "Friday", in
particular the comments concerning Black Thursday. Old RAH was
thinking like a runner before most of us were in graded school.


Kevin Dole \:|
kdole@***.vsc.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4151/welcome.html
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death, and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
Message no. 7
From: Demonnic Bloodbather demonnic@*********.net
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:49:57 +1200
Kevin Dole wrote:

> > Penta <cpenta@*****.com>
> > Congress. Possibly for treason. Point to take in though:Aren't some
> > corps nuke-capable? Doesn't the UCAS have nukes, too?
>
> Aeres did Bug City with a littl'un, and think they also made
> Atzlan an offer.
> Aztechnology, being the big force of Atzlen, has them.
> Pueblo Corp. Council prob'ly does, as they are also a national
>
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if folks like Fuchi, Renraku (sp) and
> a quite a few others have nucleonic capability. We know that Sader-
> Krupp has a chemical one, among otherr people, and brewing
> biowar agent wouldn't be at all hard for any of the geneering corps.
>
> As for the person point out that we are sounding nuke happy,
> you may be right. However, there is nothing that says you can't
> take out your OWN facilities with a tiny "clean" devise, and then
> blame it on someone else. I don't much, outside of what I've read on
> this list, about the shutdown of the Seattle Archology, but from what
> I've gathered, dropping a baby nuke on it would render the issue null
> and void, and they could blame the UCAS, or the Tir, or Atzlan, or
> Aeres, and go for a publicity blitz about being the victems.
>

good point, and I don't think it would be beyond the ethics (if the corps can even SAY the
word with a straight face) of any of the megas to do such... and how could it
realistically be traced? If they put up enough PR saying that the UCAS did it, and the
UCAS said "But we traced it to here" than who's gonna believe em? The doubt has
already
been placed.

>
> As for how to attack a corp, find a copy of Heinlien's "Friday", in
> particular the comments concerning Black Thursday. Old RAH was
> thinking like a runner before most of us were in graded school.
>

He also describes, extremely well, ways to tell when a civilization or society is sick
and/or dying... and if you compare it to the USA today, you might see that it's entirely
possible for things to degrade to the level of SR... and continue degrading, as most of
the civies in SR also fit the bill.

Demonnic
Non Illegitimi Carborundum Est
Message no. 8
From: Slipspeed atreloar@*********.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:17:19 +1000
> We know that Sader-Krupp has a chemical one, among otherr people, and
> brewing biowar agent wouldn't be at all hard for any of the geneering
corps.

According to the IE and Dragon chatter in Aztlan sourcebook, Saeder Krupp
also has nukes. The comment, which I remember imperfectly went something
along the lines of

"Lofwyr has a nuke?"
"Yes. Surprising isn't it?"

Someone out there will know what I'm talking about and have Aztlan onhand to
correct me, no doubt. :)

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted" - Albert Einstein
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:57:01 -0400
Slipspeed wrote:

> > We know that Sader-Krupp has a chemical one, among otherr people, and
> > brewing biowar agent wouldn't be at all hard for any of the geneering
> corps.
>
> According to the IE and Dragon chatter in Aztlan sourcebook, Saeder Krupp
> also has nukes. The comment, which I remember imperfectly went something
> along the lines of
>
> "Lofwyr has a nuke?"
> "Yes. Surprising isn't it?"
>

The exact quote, from page 110 is:[LADY OF THE COURT] Lofwyr has a nuclear
weapon?
[THE BIG 'D'] Of course. Wonderful irony, isn't it?

> Someone out there will know what I'm talking about and have Aztlan onhand to
> correct me, no doubt. :)
>
> Slipspeed
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
> can be counted" - Albert Einstein
> Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
> atreloar@*********.com
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------



--
--Strago

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 10
From: Bob the scary headbanging monster bob@***************.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:58:58 +0100
>Slipspeed said

>> We know that Sader-Krupp has a chemical one, among otherr people,
and
>> brewing biowar agent wouldn't be at all hard for any of the
geneering
>corps.
>
>According to the IE and Dragon chatter in Aztlan sourcebook, Saeder
Krupp
>also has nukes. The comment, which I remember imperfectly went
something
>along the lines of
>
>"Lofwyr has a nuke?"
>"Yes. Surprising isn't it?"
>
>Someone out there will know what I'm talking about and have Aztlan
onhand to
>correct me, no doubt. :)
>
>Slipspeed


Ok, I'll Bite.

(Context: Megacorps and nukes)

[Wordsmyth] Most have Nuclear weapons. Few excepting Ares,
Saeder-Krupp, and Mitsuhama, have more than a token assortment.

[Lady of the Court] Lofwyr has a nuclear weapon?

[The Big 'D'] Of course. Wonderfull irony, isn't it?

Aztalan, pp. 110

------------

I'm not sure wether to read the irony as 'a nuke is the only thing
that can kill a great dragon', or 'look what a mess nukes have made of
germany/france'

------------

A few other thoughts have have occured to me reading this thread:
Wouldn't the mega corps control the supreme court by now?
If the UCAS tried to throw the megas out, and the megas decided to
goto war it would get very bloody very quickly. Look at what the Corps
had acess to when they hit Ensendada:
Naval ships with land assault capability operating from San Fransisco,
Imperial marine cooperation/distraction, Bases in Carib league and
Ute. They also had a load of ground attack, stealth and wild weasel
planes. The corps also control the Panama Canal.

Bob

" I went looking for trouble,
and boy, I find her "

Bob is the role playing alter ego of Neil. Neil is an unemployed
chemist (Giz a job)
Message no. 11
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:35:00 -0400
At 10:58 AM 5/5/99 , Bob the scary headbanging monster wrote:
>A few other thoughts have have occured to me reading this thread:
>Wouldn't the mega corps control the supreme court by now?

Why? The corps don't have any official reps that get to vote in the
process. As for buying off the votes, that's tough. One, there are a lot of
people who are involved in the process. The president nominates the
candidate, but then it has to go through all of the judicial committes,
then a full vote in congress. Second, since the Justice is in for life, the
candidate tends to get a lot of scrutiny about every little part of his
life. And its hard for one corp to keep quiet about another one putting
their own up there on the bench. You can't trust that he won't screw over
your corp. With that few judges, you can't afford to let someone else have one.

Third, once in office they tend not to be too corruptable. These judges
have been around for years, and for the most part are in the later part of
their years. Unless they screw up really bad, they're in for life. They're
paid very well and have a considerable amount of power. Under those
circumstances, its hard to find a way to get to one of the judges. Not
impossible by any stretch, but much harder than, say, buying off a
congressman who has to run every 2 or 6 years.

Not to mention that their are nine justices, and you need 5 for a majority.
So not only do you need to get 5, you need them controlled by the same
source. And that comes back to the poin tI made a few times earlier, the
corps are not monolithic in their policies. Most of them, the only thing in
common they have is their size. Some of them outright hate each other (at
least at the top).

>If the UCAS tried to throw the megas out, and the megas decided to
>goto war it would get very bloody very quickly. Look at what the Corps
>had acess to when they hit Ensendada:
>Naval ships with land assault capability operating from San Fransisco,
>Imperial marine cooperation/distraction, Bases in Carib league and
>Ute. They also had a load of ground attack, stealth and wild weasel
>planes. The corps also control the Panama Canal.

There's the whole question of who they're going to war with. Most people
who work for a corp might be corp citizens, but they realize that they
still live in some country (the UCAS for this discussion). Do you want to
go to war with your own people so that the head of the corp can continue to
make the rules on your little piece of turf?

I'm trying to remember the specific details of the operation, but I don't
believe that it was quite as large as you make it out to be. First, right
away you're stating that they had help from another country (IJS). In
general, they were described as having military level equipment, but not
that much of it. Again, a corp doesn't get much benefit from keeping a full
standing army. The government does, since that's one of the things they do,
provide defense.

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 12
From: Bob the scary headbanging monster bob@***************.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:29:58 +0100
> Sommers replied to

>>At 10:58 AM 5/5/99 , Bob the scary headbanging monster wrote:
>>A few other thoughts have have occured to me reading this thread:
>>Wouldn't the mega corps control the supreme court by now?
>
>Why? The corps don't have any official reps that get to vote in the
>process. As for buying off the votes, that's tough. One, there are a
lot of
>people who are involved in the process. The president nominates the
>candidate, but then it has to go through all of the judicial
committes,
>then a full vote in congress. Second, since the Justice is in for
life, the
>candidate tends to get a lot of scrutiny about every little part of
his
>life. And its hard for one corp to keep quiet about another one
putting
>their own up there on the bench. You can't trust that he won't screw
over
>your corp. With that few judges, you can't afford to let someone else
have one.

>
>Third, once in office they tend not to be too corruptable. These
judges
>have been around for years, and for the most part are in the later
part of
>their years. Unless they screw up really bad, they're in for life.
They're
>paid very well and have a considerable amount of power. Under those
>circumstances, its hard to find a way to get to one of the judges.
Not
>impossible by any stretch, but much harder than, say, buying off a
>congressman who has to run every 2 or 6 years.
>
>Not to mention that their are nine justices, and you need 5 for a
majority.
>So not only do you need to get 5, you need them controlled by the
same
>source. And that comes back to the poin tI made a few times earlier,
the
>corps are not monolithic in their policies. Most of them, the only
thing in
>common they have is their size. Some of them outright hate each other
(at
>least at the top).
>


I'm no expert on the US constitution (Or th e UK system for that
matter.), and I accept that it would be very difficult. But the
Shiawase rulling was made in 2001, it's currently 2060, Therefore
virtually all the Supreme Judges started in Law school with the
rulling on the books.

Damien Knight came on the scene at Ares in 2033, he's had 27 years to
build up an influence in the process, and Loftwyr has been around for
a while (I'm sure he looks long term, and devious)

They may not own any particular judge, but they could influence who
is picked for the job, and possibly a couple of the votes in the
court.

>> Stuff about Ensendada:

>There's the whole question of who they're going to war with. Most
people
>who work for a corp might be corp citizens, but they realize that
they
>still live in some country (the UCAS for this discussion). Do you
want to
>go to war with your own people so that the head of the corp can
continue to
>make the rules on your little piece of turf?
>
>I'm trying to remember the specific details of the operation, but I
don't
>believe that it was quite as large as you make it out to be. First,
right
>away you're stating that they had help from another country (IJS). In
>general, they were described as having military level equipment, but
not
>that much of it. Again, a corp doesn't get much benefit from keeping
a full
>standing army. The government does, since that's one of the things
they do,
>provide defense.


True, I would probably back UCAS. But if the Japan corps saw this as a
direct attack on their businesses they could try to involve the IJS.
(I'm under the impression that the Corps have pretty much control over
the Japanese state).

Personally, I don't see the Shiawase Decision being Appealed. It's to
usefull from a roleplaying perspective :-)


Bob

" I went looking for trouble,
and boy, I find her "

Bob is the role playing alter ego of Neil. Neil is an unemployed
chemist (Giz a job)
Message no. 13
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 00:19:18 +0100
In article <001301be97d5$ab24daa0$465d883e@****>, Bob the scary
headbanging monster <bob@***************.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>True, I would probably back UCAS. But if the Japan corps saw this as a
>direct attack on their businesses they could try to involve the IJS.
>(I'm under the impression that the Corps have pretty much control over
>the Japanese state).

Which corps? I can't imagine Ares having much control over Imperial Japan
:) And while several corporations are Japanese, which in particular is able
to use Japan as puppet? What happens when, for instance, Renraku and
MCT have a difference of opinion?

Again - it irks me when people forget that the corporations are not a
cosy, friendly cartel. They exist in constant, ruthless competition against
each other: it takes a clear, obvious threat to briefly unite them, and
even then half of their energy is spent planning how to backstab their
erstwhile allies as soon as the crisis is over.
>

--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 14
From: Paul J. Adam Paul@********.demon.co.uk
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 00:00:08 +0100
In article <000201be9708$222168e0$8f14883e@****>, Bob the scary
headbanging monster <bob@***************.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>A few other thoughts have have occured to me reading this thread:
>Wouldn't the mega corps control the supreme court by now?

No. How would you get five justices under the control of one corporation?
And if they buy one each, then they end up squabbling...

Remeber, the corporations are usually busier fighting each other than they
are arguing with any governments.

>If the UCAS tried to throw the megas out, and the megas decided to
>goto war it would get very bloody very quickly. Look at what the Corps
>had acess to when they hit Ensendada:

Note - "had access to". One subtext of Ensenada was that it was very
much a _national_ affair. Note that _whoever_ owned the fighters that
flew from Ute, they _had_ to have CalFree's permission to overfly, and
many more permissions just to deploy: a force that size is not quickly
moved into place.

>Naval ships with land assault capability operating from San Fransisco,
>Imperial marine cooperation/distraction, Bases in Carib league and
>Ute. They also had a load of ground attack, stealth and wild weasel
>planes.

Again, those were national assets - they have to be. Do the maths on
owning military forces like that, and see how horribly _expensive_ it gets.

The drones from Carib League might well have been corporate -
expendable, mobile, needing little support, natural candidates for
corporate use.

The naval strike force was Imperial Japanese Navy, not any megacorp.

The main air strike was _believed_ to be launched from Ute through CFS
airspace - but who's to say that's the truth? I'd say it was _far_ more likely
to be a Californian Air Force strike - they'd just lost San Diego to Aztlan,
now the Azzies are building up a forward bridgehead for the next bite of
California, are they just sitting on their butts while all this happens?

Note the air force composition - low-observable fighters, jammers and
Weasels, with heavy tanker support. Just sit down and work out what that
sort of force _costs_, the time it takes to fly it, its support structure and
support personnel to where it's needed...


It suits the megacorporations very well to have rumours circulating about
their awesome military might, especially if those rumours suffice to
prevent them having to actually _maintain_ said military might.


>The corps also control the Panama Canal.

Big deal. Egypt controls the Suez Canal and that isn't the end of the world.

If they make it too difficult to use, nobody'll use it: look how the world's
oil trade from the Persian Gulf switched to VLCCs and went around the
Horn when the Suez was blocked in the late 1960s. The lucrative oil trade
never came back...


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 15
From: Ahuizotl cuellare@***.telmex.net.mx
Subject: [Fwd: The Shiawase Decision Appealed?]
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 21:05:48 -0500
"Paul J. Adam" escribió:
>
> In article <001301be97d5$ab24daa0$465d883e@****>, Bob the scary
> headbanging monster <bob@***************.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >the Japanese state).
>
> Which corps? I can't imagine Ares having much control over Imperial Japan
> :) And while several corporations are Japanese, which in particular is able
> to use Japan as puppet? What happens when, for instance, Renraku and
> MCT have a difference of opinion?

Is a matter of honor omae.
They are not going to leave a decadent country like the UCAS hurt his
obiusly better japanece citizen.

>
> Again - it irks me when people forget that the corporations are not a
...
> erstwhile allies as soon as the crisis is over.

Here i put my commond enemy teory.


>
> --
> Paul J. Adam

Ahuizotl

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