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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:09:42 +0100
on the subject of the G11,has any of you munitions freaks heard
of the G11 4.7 mm glass jacketed steel pin round ?
its suppesed to tumble in the body due to the glass breaking up
and against armour the glass vapourises and the steel rod rides
through , going through a battle helmet at 400m.

Is this TRUE?

CHOPPER

PS the only thing wrong withCP2020 is the pricelist.
cybernetics are much to cheap and plentyful
in my version you really have to work for any
cybernetics...the players rely on Drugs , software and smarts.
or just get mangled
Message no. 2
From: "S.K. Khoo" <S.K.Khoo@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 14:26:22 +0100
On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, J.W.Thomas wrote:

> on the subject of the G11,has any of you munitions freaks heard
> of the G11 4.7 mm glass jacketed steel pin round ?

Yep.

> its suppesed to tumble in the body due to the glass breaking up
> and against armour the glass vapourises and the steel rod rides
> through , going through a battle helmet at 400m.
> Is this TRUE?

More or less, yep ...

It is, however, also true that they won't be going ahead with its
production due to some "technical" fault - I don't know what the flaw is
and I haven't heard about it since, oh, almost a month ago.

Ivy, Rat ?
Message no. 3
From: Ivy Ryan <ivyryan@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 07:05:04 -0700
On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, S.K. Khoo wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, J.W.Thomas wrote:
>
> > on the subject of the G11,has any of you munitions freaks heard
> > of the G11 4.7 mm glass jacketed steel pin round ?
>
> Yep.
>
> > its suppesed to tumble in the body due to the glass breaking up
> > and against armour the glass vapourises and the steel rod rides
> > through , going through a battle helmet at 400m.
> > Is this TRUE?
>
> More or less, yep ...
>
> It is, however, also true that they won't be going ahead with its
> production due to some "technical" fault - I don't know what the flaw is
> and I haven't heard about it since, oh, almost a month ago.
>
> Ivy, Rat ?
>
I have nothing on the subject at all. Never even heard of glass pin
bullets. A guess though, maybe they're having trouble with keepint the
glass from shattering at firing? Or maybe the trouble is in getting the
round through intervening brush and such?

Ivy
Message no. 4
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 16:41:06 +0100
The bullet was a steel pin wrapped in glass from what i heard...
The glass shatteres in the body and tumbles the steel pin
the glass breaks off when it hits armour , allowing the steel
pin to penetrate.

ITS nasty....if they ever use it

CHOPPER
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:51:36 -0400
>>>>> "J" == J W Thomas <cm5323@***.AC.UK> writes:

J> The bullet was a steel pin wrapped in glass from what i heard...
J> The glass shatteres in the body and tumbles the steel pin
J> the glass breaks off when it hits armour , allowing the steel
J> pin to penetrate.

You mean kinda like the "rifle dart" trick they're playing around with for
the M-16. Take a 2mm tungsten carbide dart, wrap a lead sabot around it,
plug it into a 5.56mm cartridge. They've punched through the armor of an
APC (though with practically no energy left afterwards) with these.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "It is a proud and lonely thing to be a
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | Stainless Steel Rat."
this space intentionally left blank | --"Slippery" Jim DiGriz
Message no. 6
From: Chris Yang <cyang@*****.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:27:45 -0700
On Thu, 9 Jun 1994, Ivy Ryan wrote:

> >
> I have nothing on the subject at all. Never even heard of glass pin
> bullets. A guess though, maybe they're having trouble with keepint the
> glass from shattering at firing? Or maybe the trouble is in getting the
> round through intervening brush and such?
>
Or maybe there is something in the Geneva conventions disallowing some
aspect of the round.
I haven't heard anything about it, but I haven't really been paying
attention to current firearms technology in the last year.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Yang cyang@*****.ubc.ca
University of British Columbia cyang@******.ubc.ca
Dept of Botany
Message no. 7
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 09:22:51 -0500
That's like an APDS, I believe.

Nasty trick -- use the 2mm tugsten dart, wrap the sabot around it so it becomes
in essence a 5.56mm. Then put a cap on the end of the dart, and fit the tip of
the dart (not of the cap) with something like mercury fulminate. The cap is
crossed with scratch lines. Upon impact, the fulminate goes and then shatters
the cap into a billion little shards, which go at VERY high speeds through the
person. Like flechette rounds, sort of.

---------------------
Gian-Paolo Musumeci solstice@****.edu
"Reality is for people who can't handle drugs."
Message no. 8
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 15:32:57 +0100
>
> That's like an APDS, I believe.
>
> Nasty trick -- use the 2mm tugsten dart, wrap the sabot around it so it
becomes
> in essence a 5.56mm. Then put a cap on the end of the dart, and fit the tip
of
> the dart (not of the cap) with something like mercury fulminate. The cap is
> crossed with scratch lines. Upon impact, the fulminate goes and then shatters
> the cap into a billion little shards, which go at VERY high speeds through the
> person. Like flechette rounds, sort of.
>
> ---------------------
> Gian-Paolo Musumeci solstice@****.edu
> "Reality is for people who can't handle drugs."
>
Flechette rounds already are nasty enough...try something safer
than the fulminate ....(mate of mine uses homemade stuff to blow
bricks across the cricket pitch)... either microstress the
flectette allong its lenght (so it'll splinter) or put scored
rings around it...
As all rounds pass through the body, they tumble until they're
going sideways (about 5" deep).if the round has faults (the
scored rings) them they break up inside the victim, each
fragment digging a nicy big wound channel...

CHOPPER
HMMM....
Hmmm....
<guillotines Garfields Head off>
Message no. 9
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:01:43 -0400
>>>>> "Gian-Paolo" == Gian-Paolo Musumeci
<musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
>>>>> writes:

Gian-Paolo> Nasty trick -- use the 2mm tugsten dart, wrap the sabot around
Gian-Paolo> it so it becomes in essence a 5.56mm. Then put a cap on the
Gian-Paolo> end of the dart, and fit the tip of the dart (not of the cap)
Gian-Paolo> with something like mercury fulminate.

Except that this doesn't work. It's been tried. Mercury-tipped bullets
don't any more than lead bullets.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "One likes to believe in the freedom of
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | baseball." --Geddy Lee
Message no. 10
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 16:52:56 -0500
Um, except that I'm using mercury fulminate because it's a contact explosive
that is QUITE impact-sensitive and will break up the capping charge.

________________________________________________________________________________
Gian-Paolo Musumeci [solstice@****.edu]

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the
skull and crossbones, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken
Message no. 11
From: "S.K. Khoo" <S.K.Khoo@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 10:48:52 +0100
On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, Gian-Paolo Musumeci wrote:

> That's like an APDS, I believe.
> Like flechette rounds, sort of.

Er, bub, that's a very big "sort of" - flechettes rounds are nothing
like APDS; they're meant for totally different purposes. A friend of mine
recalls seeing what you may have in mind, though - needle-like ammo designed
to penetrate armour and then do major damage to tissue, although I'm uncertain
as to the feasibility of such rounds.
Message no. 12
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 20:08:30 -0400
>>>>> "Gian-Paolo" == Gian-Paolo Musumeci
<musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
>>>>> writes:

Gian-Paolo> Um, except that I'm using mercury fulminate because it's a
Gian-Paolo> contact explosive that is QUITE impact-sensitive and will break
Gian-Paolo> up the capping charge.

Do you /really/ want to be carrying around something that could cause your
whole magazine to go off in your hands?

Didn't think so. That's the reason nobody uses it.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | "The only way to deal with temptation is
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | to yield to it." --Oscar Wilde
Message no. 13
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: G11
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:58:38 -0500
Well no. =)

________________________________________________________________________________
Gian-Paolo Musumeci [solstice@****.edu]

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the
skull and crossbones, and begin slitting throats." -- H. L. Mencken

Further Reading

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