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Message no. 1
From: elven@******.com (Pepe)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 12:49:29 -0500
Hi,

I have just stated a new SR campaign with my players, set in 2060.

All the PCs have started with some connection to a small Jap corp (VP Sec.
Consultant, VP Chauffeur, VP Personal Decker, VP Mistress, VP Company Man).

The company itself is in trouble and the VP, trying to secure some profit
ahead, decides to steal the lead project of the company that has been sent
from Japan to Seattle in a courier. He has asked his minions, the PCs, to
get the info inside the head of the Courier.

What I plan is that the PCs get the info, but everything is discovered. The
VP is killed by his own company, and they are chased by his company and
other companies that want the project. They have also the option to sell
the info.

What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make synthetic
human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it must be
worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1 Million, sounds
that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or more sounds like
I am giving them way too much.

Any ideas?

Thank you,
Pepe
Message no. 2
From: York.GA@******.gc.ca (York.GA@******.gc.ca)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:01:02 -0500
If your players don't have the contacts to sell the stuff then whoever they
sell to will be a stranger and probably try to stiff them. You could come
up with a decent price for the product( say 1 to 4 million) and have the
fixer offer them the usual finders fee of 20% to 40%. This way you can set
the amount of what you want to give the players and still have the actual
stuff come out to a reasonable price. Even if they find out who the VP was
going to sell to, the buyer is not going to give out full price to strangers
or underlings especially when he has them over the barrel so to speak.

Coyote

-----Original Message-----
From: Pepe [mailto:elven@******.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 6, November, 2002 12:49 PM
To: shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com
Subject: Game Advice


Hi,

I have just stated a new SR campaign with my players, set in 2060.

All the PCs have started with some connection to a small Jap corp (VP Sec.
Consultant, VP Chauffeur, VP Personal Decker, VP Mistress, VP Company Man).

The company itself is in trouble and the VP, trying to secure some profit
ahead, decides to steal the lead project of the company that has been sent
from Japan to Seattle in a courier. He has asked his minions, the PCs, to
get the info inside the head of the Courier.

What I plan is that the PCs get the info, but everything is discovered. The
VP is killed by his own company, and they are chased by his company and
other companies that want the project. They have also the option to sell
the info.

What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make synthetic
human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it must be
worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1 Million, sounds
that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or more sounds like
I am giving them way too much.

Any ideas?

Thank you,
Pepe
Message no. 3
From: ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:07:06 -0800
[Valeu John EMFA]
<SNIPED>

> What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
>
> I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make
> synthetic
> human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it must be
> worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1 Million,
> sounds
> that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or more sounds
> like
> I am giving them way too much.
>
> Any ideas?
>
[Valeu John EMFA]
Depends. If your players/characters know of Dunkelzahn's will,
there's more than just the million.
Not only do you get the patent, but the bequest (sp?) as well. But
the players don't have the tech
to R&D the product (maybe to test, but that's another run). Ok, so
they're sitting on a hot piece of
info and they sorta need to dump it. There are many corps (non-AAA)
that would love to get there
hands on the info and have their own black-ops team. I would have
the team try and hook up with a
single or double A corp and help them out.

Or they could just dump it on the first person that gives what the
players feel is a reasonable offer.
Then the tech is picked up by a AAA and eventually deemed not worth
persuing and then buried under
a pile of paperwork, never to see the light of day.

EM3 John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper, Nocren
Message no. 4
From: shadowrun@******.com (Paul Devisser)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:28:55 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <York.GA@******.gc.ca>
To: <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Game Advice


> If your players don't have the contacts to sell the stuff then whoever
they
> sell to will be a stranger and probably try to stiff them. You could come
> up with a decent price for the product( say 1 to 4 million) and have the
> fixer offer them the usual finders fee of 20% to 40%. This way you can
set
> the amount of what you want to give the players and still have the actual
> stuff come out to a reasonable price. Even if they find out who the VP
was
> going to sell to, the buyer is not going to give out full price to
strangers
> or underlings especially when he has them over the barrel so to speak.
>
> Coyote
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pepe [mailto:elven@******.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6, November, 2002 12:49 PM
> To: shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com
> Subject: Game Advice
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have just stated a new SR campaign with my players, set in 2060.
>
> All the PCs have started with some connection to a small Jap corp (VP Sec.
> Consultant, VP Chauffeur, VP Personal Decker, VP Mistress, VP Company
Man).
>
> The company itself is in trouble and the VP, trying to secure some profit
> ahead, decides to steal the lead project of the company that has been sent
> from Japan to Seattle in a courier. He has asked his minions, the PCs, to
> get the info inside the head of the Courier.
>
> What I plan is that the PCs get the info, but everything is discovered.
The
> VP is killed by his own company, and they are chased by his company and
> other companies that want the project. They have also the option to sell
> the info.
>
> What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
> I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make
synthetic
> human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it must be
> worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1 Million,
sounds
> that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or more sounds
like
> I am giving them way too much.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thank you,
> Pepe

Regardless of how much it is worth, remember that this item/data is what is
termed `red hot`. Every corp that wants it is shining lights into the
shadows looking for it... sure the PCs could unload it for a cool Million.
But what are the chances that the meet won't be crashed? That the PCs won't
be injured? (medical bills cost big time... so do replacing weapons, cyber,
bio, magic foci, decks...etc.)

So, sure... pay the PCs what they ask for... but then have the meet crashed
by the Feds or Lone Star or corporate goons, the loot AND the money
confiscated... the PCs in jail or worse...

Have corps take revenge on the PCs if they manage to sell of the info and
get away... Make it a very powerful enemy that won't stop to use powerful
ritual magics, cyberzombie assassin squads... how about a genetically
engineered nano-virus tailored specifically to the PCs... be creative, be
evil... sure - give them the money... just don't let them keep it.

Epilogue


---
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Message no. 5
From: elven@******.com (Pepe Barbe)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:56:36 -0500
At 01:28 p.m. 06/11/2002, you wrote:
>Have corps take revenge on the PCs if they manage to sell of the info and
>get away... Make it a very powerful enemy that won't stop to use powerful
>ritual magics, cyberzombie assassin squads... how about a genetically
>engineered nano-virus tailored specifically to the PCs... be creative, be
>evil... sure - give them the money... just don't let them keep it.

Errm ... This adventure is supposed to be the prologue of their life as
Shadowrunners, and how they become a team. Being too evil will make them
start with their epilogue. :)

Pepe
Message no. 6
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:34:58 +0000
At 12:49 PM 6/11/2002 -0500, Pepe wrote:
>What I plan is that the PCs get the info, but everything is discovered.
>The VP is killed by his own company, and they are chased by his company
>and other companies that want the project. They have also the option to
>sell the info.
>
>What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
>I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make
>synthetic human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it
>must be worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1
>Million, sounds that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or
>more sounds like I am giving them way too much.

I'd throw a spanner into the works from the start, the project is over 70%
done maybe, but maybe everyone is having the same problems, it looked like
the company were about to make the breakthrough but the brains are going to
have to work on recreating the 70% they had before and can't work without
the notes (you know, the ones in the VPs briefcase when he was taken out.
Yes, the briefcase he covered himself with when the first shots were fired.
Yes the one which 15 EX went into and didn't come out the other side...)
that minimises the value of the project (because noone can be sure it
contains anything they haven't got.
Also encourage them (probably by busting into some of their meets) to work
through several different middle men, each of them taking a minimum of 20%.
The more middle men they work through the safer they are, but the less
money they have at the end of it. The fewer middle men they use the more
equipment intensive you make the game, therefore the more they have to
spend, all the time!


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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"Humbug, Humbug, Humbug... Humbug Baldric?"
Blackadder's Christmas carol
Message no. 7
From: docwagon101@*****.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:25:10 +0000 (GMT)
--- Pepe Barbe <elven@******.com> wrote: > At 01:28
p.m. 06/11/2002, you wrote:
> >Have corps take revenge on the PCs if they manage
to sell of the info and get away... Make it a very
powerful enemy that won't stop to use powerful ritual
magics, cyberzombie assassin squads... how about a
genetically engineered nano-virus tailored
specifically to the PCs... be creative, be evil...
sure - give them the money... just don't let them keep
it.
>
> Errm ... This adventure is supposed to be the
prologue of their life as Shadowrunners, and how they
become a team. Being too evil will make them start
with their epilogue. :)
> Pepe

The above kind of attitude (Epilogue's, not Pepe's) is
something I REALLY hate, both as a player and a GM.
The point of roleplaying (for MOST players) is to have
fun and to advance the characters so you can build a
story for them and move on to bigger and better and
more interesting and more challenging stuff. If the GM
is out to screw the players of every red cent they
make, they'll never get anywhere and they'll end up
very frustrated. Such advice (give them the money, but
then take it all away, possibly screwing the
characters over quite badly in the process) is
especially bad in a situation like Pepe's describing,
where he, as the GM is FORCING them in a certain
direction in order to push the campaign where he wants
it to go.

My advice is, don't ever give the players money you're
just going to take away again. If it's a mistake,
that's one thing, but don't do it deliberately.

Pepe, my question for you is, do they really need to
be shadowrunners? You've got everything set up to run
a "company man" campaign - why not do that? But if you
really want to push the characters into the shadows,
there are a few things you can do to keep the payoff
for this job reasonable.

To begin with, you need to decide what you want each
character to earn from this job – 10k? 20k? It’s a
tough one, so you might even want to go higher.

Once you have that figure, look at the data. As people
have said, that data is worth millions (maybe 3 or 4,
maybe more, maybe a bit less). But as someone already
pointed out, no one's going to offer runners who can't
make use of this information anything approaching full
price - somewhere in the vicinity of 20-40% (depending
on negotation and the base price you set - the more
the data is worth, the lower you set the initial
percentage) would be reasonable. That'll give you
somewhere in the range of 600,000 to 1.6 million nuyen
as the initial payoff.

Next step - these characters all have to disappear
into the shadows. Their old employers want to get
their hands on them. So they've gotta be zeroed, which
is not a cheap process. Make them desperate - have
them being chased by their previous employers, the
cops, the corps they DIDN'T sell to, and maybe the
government. Give them a few scares and some
skin-of-their-teeth escapes. Make them willing to pay
anything to shed their old identities and the new
enemies those identities have made. Then let them meet
someone who can help them – maybe just zeroing them,
or maybe providing them with fake ids as well – and
charge them enough to leave them with the sum you
originally decided you wanted them to get out of the
job.

Of course, even knowing just how much trouble they’re
it, the money they have could blind the players and
they could decide to keep it and take their chances.
That’s when it’s fair to hit them with everything
you’ve got – but not before.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 8
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Game Advice
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:04:23 -0700
>What troubles me, is how much money should they get if they sell the info.
>I have decided that the project is the "infamous" process to make synthetic
>human flesh for ghouls. The project is like 70%-80% done, so it must be
>worth a lot of nuyens. How much money is right? Less than 1 Million, sounds
>that I am not being true to the story. Giving a Million or more sounds like
>I am giving them way too much.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thank you,
>Pepe

I always base the amount paid for the job on the NPC offering the job. If
the NPC has, and is willing to pay, $5,000, then the job pays
$5,000. Sometimes the NPC doesn't like to bargain and offers a fixed
amount and can't afford any more then that. Sometimes the NPC is trying to
get as much as they can for as little as they can pay, and start low with
room to haggle (in which case I always figure out what the upper limit is
before hand so the players don't out haggle me).

In the above example figure out what the buyer can spend. Keep in mind
that they will try to keep the purchase a secret. This means that they
will try to keep the price as low as possible. The more they pay, the
greater the odds someone will notice a big chunk of money moving around and
wonder what's up. The buyer is also in a position of strength, because if
they PCs don't sell it to them they have to find another buyer. With
something that many corporations would want, that's a tricky
proposition. A lot of interested buyers is a bad thing, especially in the
world of Shadowrun where someone will try to steal it from the PCs (but it
might make for a fun adventure <shrug>).

And, while 70-80% done might sound good, it's that last bit that's the
tough part. Even if it was 99.9% done it wouldn't be worth near as much as
if it was completed. 70-80% done means it doesn't work yet. Imagine what
it would be like to try to sell a car that doesn't have an engine, and the
buyer has to *make* the engine themselves.

If I were the GM the buyer would offer maybe $10,000, with room to bargain
up to $15,000. The buyer would want the project, but wouldn't want anyone
else to know they bought it, and would know that they would still have to
spend millions, if not billions, on the rest of the research.


--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com

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