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Message no. 1
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:05:27 -0400
>I guess it depends on definitions of "wimpy" vary from person to person.
>I"ve been averse to putting Dancer's stats up because, having read EDGE
>RUNNERS and seeing the stats for characters in there, I'm a little
>embarrassed about him now.

<snip>

>Don't know if it's just my gaming style, or if I'm just a little jaded
>after all these years I've been playing, or what. But either way, I'm
>kinda wondering about things now vis a vis my campaign and my gaming in
>general.

My campaigns are on a lower number scale too, but I don't think it's
anything to be embarrassed about. I'm not so much impressed when I see the
stats of a character/npc and they're huge numbers and all...what impresses
me is a good story. I myself don't like high number games...I just don't
think it works out as nice. It just becomes an arms war too quickly.
I went to play with a new friend of mine...and these were his house rules
for starting characters.
Use the Sum to 10 method from Companion...except you use Sum to 12.
Meta's are free and you can take any of the bonuses you get in any stat and
apply them to any stat that gets bonuses...that's confusing...but this is
what he ment. Elf gets +2 Char, +1 Quick. So...you can do that or have +3
Char or +3 Quick. His reasoning...because a +1 Quick doesn't help you any
since Reaction is divided by 2...of course he also told me he doesn't like
people who play by the numbers and such...hmmm.
There was other things too. He also complained...the only thing wrong with
SR he said, is that after character creation, there is nothing to do with
your character...hmm, wonder why.

Anyway, the point of my story. I GM'ed for them...and just didn't like it.
I bumped all my NPCs but I wasn't prepared for his style...he just wiped
everyone out in a blink...it was just pointless.
I'm not saying it's wrong however. When he had a group of gamers and they
all played that way, they had fun....and that's the whole point. People
play at different levels and like different types of games...
But don't put down your game. And definately don't feel jaded...if you
have good memories with a character, does it really matter that somone else
can count all the way up to 10...not really.

--00DNA
"The Matrix patterns itself on Nature" <<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:13:38 -0400
At 04:05 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:

>My campaigns are on a lower number scale too, but I don't think it's
>anything to be embarrassed about. I'm not so much impressed when I see the
>stats of a character/npc and they're huge numbers and all...what impresses
>me is a good story. I myself don't like high number games...I just don't
>think it works out as nice. It just becomes an arms war too quickly.

They can. It takes a gifted GM to keep a power game in-line. Otherwise it
becomes pointless.

>I went to play with a new friend of mine...and these were his house rules
>for starting characters.

<snipped> Those, IMHO, are some wack house rules. It's one thing to
become a powerful PC after a year, few years of gaming. But to start like
that is wrong.

>Anyway, the point of my story. I GM'ed for them...and just didn't like it.
> I bumped all my NPCs but I wasn't prepared for his style...he just wiped
>everyone out in a blink...it was just pointless.

The key is to make them think. It doesn't matter how fast he is or how big
his guns are if he can't solve the mystery. Also, that sort of PC would be
more suited to an epic style game, saving the world sort of thing.

But as been said repeatedly and bears repeating still more, if you are
having fun, then that's all that really matters. Whatever floats your boat.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:49:20 EST
> >I guess it depends on definitions of "wimpy" vary from person to
person.
> >I"ve been averse to putting Dancer's stats up because, having read EDGE
> >RUNNERS and seeing the stats for characters in there, I'm a little
> >embarrassed about him now.
>
> My campaigns are on a lower number scale too, but I don't think it's
> anything to be embarrassed about. I'm not so much impressed when I see the
> stats of a character/npc and they're huge numbers and all...what impresses

With SR3 out, I had everyone in my group make new characters. I've
always played what I considered "middle" or "normal" power
games...(The sample characters given in SR3 are pretty close to what
my players would have). This time, however, I decided to play a
low-power campaign with emphasis on character imporvement and
advancement. I told the players they'd all be characters who were
NOT YET shadowrunners....but would be. With that in mind, we all sat
down to make characters...after rejecting characters from everyone 3
times, I was content...
To summarize:

While attributes did tend to be high, I view that as natural
potential rather than a standard. I did enforce that they not
"focus" too much...I didn't give them any set rules, but it turned
out that they had no Atribute more than 2 above any other.

Skills: No 5+'s unless they were specializations. only a few 4's in
their areas of specialty. Mostly 2's and 3's, with a few 1's. In
part because of their character histories (low-level gangers),
limited experiences, and high intelligences, we had a hard time
divvying out all of their knowledge skills.

Magic: Everyone so far has voted to be mundane (unusual in my
group...I guess they didn't want the pain of trying to raise a
low-power mage...).

Money: Too much. Most of them ended up with 90K, and spent around
20 K, then took 10% of the rest as cash. It's obvious SR isn't set
up for this kind of thing.

Cyber: Sum total is one DJ for the group.

We've done two runs, with low power enemies (rob research from a zoo,
and steal a shipment from a small-time smuggler). The characters,
possessing only light pistols and no armor, had the best time we've
ever had. One player remarked that playing someone who wasn't a
shadowrunner allowed him to react totally different to
situations...he didn't play the same tough-guy fatalist most of his
characters were. He accepted insults without tracking them down to
kill them. The effects were really quite remarkable.

While each of them still has less than 10 Karma, they are happily
considering where to spend it. The SR3 rules make advancement at
lower levels much more possible. I expect that we'll play this way
for several months before changing characters. While I can see that
this is MUCH more low-power than SR3 is written to be played
(whatever that level may be) I fully encourage all of you to try it
at least once. If you think no armor and only light pistols is
unrealistic, realize that the AVERAGE person wouldn't have those
things, and the characters were meant to be as average as possible.
When more people join our group (as will happen now that summer is
over), I'll bring them in as normal middle-class non-runners. As
time passes and the characters improve, we'll move into the same
level of campaign we once played, but now the players will feel
differently about their characters.

-=SwiftOne=-
"No, you CAN'T have a heacy pistol yet. Because I say so!"
Message no. 4
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:53:27 -0400
Brett Borger wrote:
>
> With SR3 out, I had everyone in my group make new characters. I've
> always played what I considered "middle" or "normal" power
> games...(The sample characters given in SR3 are pretty close to what
> my players would have). This time, however, I decided to play a
> low-power campaign with emphasis on character imporvement and
> advancement. I told the players they'd all be characters who were
> NOT YET shadowrunners....but would be. With that in mind, we all sat
> down to make characters...after rejecting characters from everyone 3
> times, I was content...

That sounds extremely similar to the campaign I'll be starting in a month
or so. Glad to hear everything's working out well for you and your
players.


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 5
From: Randy Nickel <LrdDrgn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:22:01 EDT
I tend to like running games that are a bit more epic as well as playing in
games where the group can make a difference in the world that we are running
in.

In the game that my GM is running I have been able to play a Elven Druid named
Lugh O'Connor. The GM liked us to come up with detailed history (pages of
it!!!) and so I did.

Essentially he wanted to prove that he could make it on his own with out the
family fortune. During the course of game play we all made a lot of nuyen and
my character started a security corporation. All the players became the "fast
response team" for the company, and we hired alot of other security types for
the legitimate side of the company.

We even did runs against other security companies just to make them look bad.
It was a hoot for a while. Then the GM dumped the Horrors on us and I was glad
that we had a lot of well trained people.

The point is we got pretty big (Initiate 8 and going) and lots of money. Not
to mention that we know/knew people like the Big D, Harleyquin (yes, I know
how it is spelled), Ehran the Scribe, as well as a few other people.

The game I am running will be pretty big as well. I started them off in 2054
and they have just been contacted by Jane-in-the-Box to do some runs for her.
The Big D has been keeping an eye on them and they will fill the same sort of
role that Axler, Grind, Dhin, and Ryan Mercury did.

Things will likely turn out a lot different then they did in the Dragon Heart
series though (especially since I am only about 3/4 the way through the second
book and I am not liking Ryan Mercury much. I like Burnout and Lethe alot
more).

Otter
Message no. 6
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:02:57 PDT
>From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>


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Message no. 7
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Strength Variation (was Re: Prime Runners...)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:06:40 PDT
>From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
You got the right idea there, i haven't got SR3 but i ran a
group of gangers from SRComp for a few sessions. I had them hauled up
for owning an axe and some pistols. They had to try and escape from the
Lonestar holding cells with what they had on on them. It was rad.
Thats Why I liked SRComp if only because of the new ideas for different
types of game. I hadn't thought of ever playing a Military ganme, Whilst
1/3 of my PC's where ex-mil....or does that say something about me?
MrhAPPyTHESmilEYMAN

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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