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Message no. 1
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Game System
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:43:36 -0500
Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
different setting?

Mike
Message no. 2
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:32:21 EDT
In a message dated 10/23/99 5:38:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mscoleman@********.net writes:

> Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
> thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
> and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
> favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
> different setting?

First, most of the technological skills are rendered useless.

Second, B/R skills come in the areas of Blacksmithing, Weaponsmithing, and
the like.

Third, a lot of the critter, ie Orks, Gnolls, etc, can be considered as
either Orcs or Trolls from SR.

Fourth, it's going to be a lot of work for you as there are not a lot of
critters in SR that directly translate easily into a AD&D type setting.

LOL,
-Mike
Message no. 3
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Game System
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:49:54 -0400
At 06:43 AM 10/23/99 , Michael Coleman wrote:
>Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
>thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
>and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
>favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
>different setting?
>
>Mike


Talk to Marc Renouf. In one of his campaigns, he uses the SR3 rules with
the Harn fantasy setting. Last time I checked he had a new skill list set
and a lot more for melee weapons.


Sommers
Insert witty quote here.
Message no. 4
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Game System
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:57:34 +1000
> Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
> thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
> and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
> favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
> different setting?

we were going to use it for a Fallout style game but never got the chance.

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 5
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:53:15 EDT
>From: "Michael Coleman" <mscoleman@********.net>
>Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:43:36 -0500
>
>Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
>thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
>and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
>favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
>different setting?
>
>Mike
>
>
I, as well, grew up on AD&D, so last year I set about a translation. One of
the problems that I came across was the fact that, other than style, there
is not allot of difference between melee weapons. Although, AD&D's armor
system works very well in a translation. i.e.

Armor Impact AD&D AC
Padded 1 9
Leather 2 8
Studded Leather 3 7
Hide, Brigantine 4 6
Chain Mail 5 5
Banded/Splint mail 6 7......

I think you can get the picture. The prices are the same, and you just have
to use some common sense for the availability codes.

Most of the contacts will work with only minor changes....

Bartender----------Bartender
Club Owner---------Club Owner
Metroplex Guard----Watchman
Snitch-------------Snitch
Lone Star----------City Guard....etc.

I just copied the contact, pulled out the "tech" skills and gave them the
appropriate level in a fantasy skill. i.e. the Metroplex Guardsman has a
firearms (2nd ed.) of 3 so I gave him an edged (3rd. ed.) of 3 as well.

Albeit, it took a little work and a little playtesting, (witch I am grateful
to my friend for running it). But all in all it worked quite well.

We also have a tendency to use a core system for most of our games, be it
fantasy, sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, or what have you. My preferred system is
Shadowrun, his so far is FUZION (tm).....(sorry, wrong post)... anyway, as
for other settings, I have been working on SR for a Star Wars type setting,
and a RIFTS type setting (yes Megadamage and all). We even like to toy with
a "time matrix" ala Time Lords fron Blackburg Tactical Research Center, on
occasion. And so far I think it is going quite well (when I ever have time
to work).


Ahrain

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Message no. 6
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Game System
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 03:27:11 -0500
> >
> I, as well, grew up on AD&D, so last year I set about a
> translation. One of
> the problems that I came across was the fact that, other
> than style, there
> is not allot of difference between melee weapons.
> Although, AD&D's armor
> system works very well in a translation. i.e.
>
> Armor Impact AD&D AC
> Padded 1 9
> Leather 2 8
> Studded Leather 3 7
> Hide, Brigantine 4 6
> Chain Mail 5 5
> Banded/Splint mail 6 7......
>
> I think you can get the picture. The prices are the same,
> and you just have
> to use some common sense for the availability codes.
>
> Most of the contacts will work with only minor changes....
>
> Bartender----------Bartender
> Club Owner---------Club Owner
> Metroplex Guard----Watchman
> Snitch-------------Snitch
> Lone Star----------City Guard....etc.
>
> I just copied the contact, pulled out the "tech" skills and
> gave them the
> appropriate level in a fantasy skill. i.e. the Metroplex
> Guardsman has a
> firearms (2nd ed.) of 3 so I gave him an edged (3rd. ed.)
> of 3 as well.
>
> Albeit, it took a little work and a little playtesting,
> (witch I am grateful
> to my friend for running it). But all in all it worked quite well.
>
> We also have a tendency to use a core system for most of
> our games, be it
> fantasy, sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, or what have you. My
> preferred system is
> Shadowrun, his so far is FUZION (tm).....(sorry, wrong
> post)... anyway, as
> for other settings, I have been working on SR for a Star
> Wars type setting,
> and a RIFTS type setting (yes Megadamage and all). We even
> like to toy with
> a "time matrix" ala Time Lords fron Blackburg Tactical
> Research Center, on
> occasion. And so far I think it is going quite well (when
> I ever have time
> to work).
>
>
> Ahrain
>

How do you handle clerics? Do you treat them as shamans? Do you
break up the stealth skill up into individual skills for thieves?

Mike
Message no. 7
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:06:35 EDT
>From: "Michael Coleman" <mscoleman@********.net>
>Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 03:27:11 -0500
>
> > ><snip>
> > Ahrain
> >
>
>How do you handle clerics? Do you treat them as shamans? Do you
>break up the stealth skill up into individual skills for thieves?
>
>Mike
>
>
>
The shamanistic path actually seemed to work the best, with certain
gods/goddesses sometimes granting special "powers". Sometimes these were
merits, sometimes flaws, and (VERY rarely) a Phys-Ad power (although a minor
one). We changed the "medicine lodge" to a clerical alter. Clerics, of
course, had to have a "Holy Symbol", either as an expendable fetish, geas or
whatnot.

The rules on Magic in general were a little stricter than SR. Like force
instead of force/2 for drain, we used SR2 magic with SR3 main rules, which
works beautifully for a fantasy setting. The spells are a little more
specific.

We also made Magic an actual attribute with which you had to buy like
normal (and could raise like normal, up to racial max of 6). To raise your
magic over 6 you, of course, had to initiate.

Most, if not all, magic had at least one geas, automatically. this kept
with the flavor of allot of fantasy magic with gestures, components, phrases
and such.

Phys-Ad's are where we ran into our first major problem. A phys-Ad in SR
has to contend with Cyber goons allot, but in a fantasy setting, no. So we
made Phys-Ad's (we were still in debate as to even let them in at all) a bit
more expensive to become, they had less points to spread, and only had
access to lower levels of the powers. (A Phys-Ad with reflex boost going on
a 34 with most "fast" opponents going on an 11.....can we say the Amazing
Ginsue, boys and girls?) So, "officially" the verdict is still out on that
one.

As for Stealth, we did split it up into Stealth, Theivery (picking locks,
disarming traps, etc.), and Legerdemain (Sleight of Hand, Picking pockets,
etc.), which worked quite well (I played a halfling thief).

We also enhanced and added a merit "Adrenaline Flow", basically an
enhanced "Adrenaline Surge" but without the side effects, but it costs 6
pts. Both are availably (but not together).

Our original setting was the "Forgotten Realms". Me and the GM (who
agreed to run the playtesting) had some differences of opinion concerning
the magic of the Realms. He said that the Realms would loose its flavor if
Mages could be slinging Lightning Bolt after Lightning Bolt...I disagreed.
I told him it would be allot like the old novels (Dragonlance..the duel
between Raistlin and Fistandantilus, to be exact) and that the revisions to
the rules for mages balanced. But a creative difference is to be expected.

In general me and my wife use SR as a base system for whatever we are
running. She likes to get VERY BIG and way out there with her story lines.
My current Mage character has just been transported through the "Dunkelzhan
Rift" while investigating his death. Where or when he ends up, only time
will tell.

Ahrain

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Message no. 8
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Game System
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:31:26 -0500
> The shamanistic path actually seemed to work the best, with certain
> gods/goddesses sometimes granting special "powers".
> Sometimes these were
> merits, sometimes flaws, and (VERY rarely) a Phys-Ad power
> (although a minor
> one). We changed the "medicine lodge" to a clerical alter.
> Clerics, of
> course, had to have a "Holy Symbol", either as an
> expendable fetish, geas or
> whatnot.

How do you treat sprits? And Elementals?

> The rules on Magic in general were a little stricter than
> SR. Like force
> instead of force/2 for drain, we used SR2 magic with SR3
> main rules, which
> works beautifully for a fantasy setting. The spells are a
> little more
> specific.
> We also made Magic an actual attribute with which you had
> to buy like
> normal (and could raise like normal, up to racial max of
> 6). To raise your
> magic over 6 you, of course, had to initiate.
>
> Most, if not all, magic had at least one geas,
> automatically. this kept
> with the flavor of allot of fantasy magic with gestures,
> components, phrases
> and such.

This all sound like a good ideas. Mages don't have to compete with
assault rifles so you can down grade their power.

> Phys-Ad's are where we ran into our first major problem.
> A phys-Ad in SR
> has to contend with Cyber goons allot, but in a fantasy
> setting, no. So we
> made Phys-Ad's (we were still in debate as to even let them
> in at all) a bit
> more expensive to become, they had less points to spread,
> and only had
> access to lower levels of the powers. (A Phys-Ad with
> reflex boost going on
> a 34 with most "fast" opponents going on an 11.....can we
> say the Amazing
> Ginsue, boys and girls?) So, "officially" the verdict is
> still out on that
> one.

Have you thought of using Phy-Ads as holy warriors (Paladins, Monks,
Sensei, Barbarian totem warriors, etc). Their power comes from the
gods or a totem or spiritual enlightenment. They would have some kind
of geas to their powers (poverty, only certain weapons, can't eat
meat, daily prayer etc.) And just cut down the number of powers they
can get. I would throw out improved reflex all together or at least
anything above level 1.

> As for Stealth, we did split it up into Stealth, Theivery
> (picking locks,
> disarming traps, etc.), and Legerdemain (Sleight of Hand,
> Picking pockets,
> etc.), which worked quite well (I played a halfling thief).
>
> We also enhanced and added a merit "Adrenaline Flow",
> basically an
> enhanced "Adrenaline Surge" but without the side effects,
> but it costs 6
> pts. Both are availably (but not together).
>
> Our original setting was the "Forgotten Realms". Me and
> the GM (who
> agreed to run the playtesting) had some differences of
> opinion concerning
> the magic of the Realms. He said that the Realms would
> loose its flavor if
> Mages could be slinging Lightning Bolt after Lightning
> Bolt...I disagreed.
> I told him it would be allot like the old novels
> (Dragonlance..the duel
> between Raistlin and Fistandantilus, to be exact) and that
> the revisions to
> the rules for mages balanced. But a creative difference is
> to be expected.

"Forgoten Realms" is one of the better game worlds. Very Big. Have
you seen the CD-ROM atlas that is out now.


> In general me and my wife use SR as a base system for
> whatever we are
> running. She likes to get VERY BIG and way out there with
> her story lines.
> My current Mage character has just been transported through
> the "Dunkelzhan
> Rift" while investigating his death. Where or when he ends
> up, only time
> will tell.
>
> Ahrain
>

Mike
Message no. 9
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:43:08 -0400 (EDT)
On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Sommers wrote:

> At 06:43 AM 10/23/99 , Michael Coleman wrote:
> >Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting?
>
> Talk to Marc Renouf. In one of his campaigns, he uses the SR3 rules with
> the Harn fantasy setting. Last time I checked he had a new skill list set
> and a lot more for melee weapons.

Yup, Alex is spot on. I run Harn using Shadowrun rules (as did
Peter Leitch for a while, though I think he made the switch to HarnMaster
rules a while back). It works out surprisingly well, though you need to
make a few tweaks to magic and armed combat. Let me know via private
email if you're interested.

Marc
Message no. 10
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:58:45 -0400 (EDT)
On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Michael Coleman wrote:

> How do you handle clerics? Do you treat them as shamans? Do you
> break up the stealth skill up into individual skills for thieves?

I don't know about their system, but I do to an extent. The basic
thief skills of "hide in shadows" and "move silently" are still
covered by
Stealth, but climbing falls naturally into athletics, picking locks falls
under its own skill, and there is a "trap lore" skill that governs
recognizing and disarming traps. You can even use the SR3 mechanics for
active/knowledge skills to give you more variety (for instance, you
might have a very high "Trap Lore background knowledge" skill, but not
have the active skill. Yup, that's a trap. Nope, I have no idea how to
disarm it).
Also, don't forget the Negotiation skill, which covers both
Fast-Talk and Bribery (two very important skills for thieves).
Since Shadowrun is a skill-based system rather than a level-based
system, you can have a lot more "character" between thieves, and players
can specialize in the kind of theivery that they want to accomplish. From
the suave con-man to the back-alley cutthroat, you can do it all.

Marc
Message no. 11
From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: Game System
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:10:11 +1000
At 10:43 25/10/99 -0400, Marc Renouf wrote:
> Yup, Alex is spot on. I run Harn using Shadowrun rules (as did
>Peter Leitch for a while, though I think he made the switch to HarnMaster
>rules a while back). It works out surprisingly well, though you need to
>make a few tweaks to magic and armed combat. Let me know via private
>email if you're interested.

Peter is still running a "ShadowHarn" game, though he now runs a pure Harn
game as well. As has been said, the Shadowrun rules needed a bit of
tweaking: magic needed to be reined in a bit, physads don't exist (yet) and
some of the skills needed to be modified slightly. Other than that,
Shadowrun rules work perfectly well in a fantasy game.


Chris
Message no. 12
From: Ahrain Drigar ahrain_drigar@*******.com
Subject: Game System
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:24:01 EDT
One other thing that we changed was the ability to Astrally Project. We
ended up making it a metamagic ability. We kept perceiving, but it took a
little more than just a simplie action. It ended up being a complex action
to initiate and a simple action to keep it going.

>
>Have you thought of using Phy-Ads as holy warriors (Paladins, Monks,
>Sensei, Barbarian totem warriors, etc). Their power comes from the
>gods or a totem or spiritual enlightenment. They would have some kind
>of geas to their powers (poverty, only certain weapons, can't eat
>meat, daily prayer etc.) And just cut down the number of powers they
>can get. I would throw out improved reflex all together or at least
>anything above level 1.
>

This is one of the only ways we agreed on alowing Phys-Ads at all. And yes
we DID limit (only to Lvl. 1 I do beleive) Improved Reflexes.
I think the fact that you had to buy your magic like an attribute, and the
increased point cost (or I imagine if you make a Phys-Ad a column A and give
NO column B, 2 C's and 1 D that may work as well) most Phys-Ads would have
a lot more POTENTIAL for power than ACTUAL power to start with. Worked
well, but then again someone may want "warriors" to be phys-ads and mages to
be mages. To each their own.

>"Forgoten Realms" is one of the better game worlds. Very Big. Have
>you seen the CD-ROM atlas that is out now.
>

As a matter of fact, my wife pointed it out to me at a book store today.
She ended up buying it for me. Right now, I'm trying to convince her to run
our "ShadowBlade: In the shadows, blades gleem brightest" (Corney I know,
but hey!) rules. Maybe even my mage who was thrust into who knows
where......"A runner in King Azoun's court....."

BTW thanks for the feedback Mike, it's been a while since I have even
thought about my fantasy stuff.

Ahrain

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From dbuehrer@****.org Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:14:22 -0600
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:14:22 -0600
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Cyber dragon???

Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
\
\ However, and here comes the "bat" I mentioned, what is stopping a dragon
from
\ developing a "Simsense Interface" as a spell like the one we've bounced
\ around before. It doesn't do anything other than allow for the interaction
\ with a Simsense piece of hardware.
\
\ If a dragon couldn't perform that kind of magic, then there *IS* something
\ wrong here ...

You mean, would a dragon be able to create a spell that allows him to do
what an Otaku does? If it's a Great Dragon, sure. If it's a lesser
dragon, sure, if he got the spell from a Great Dragon. Would a mage be
able to use the same spell? Sure. <EGMG> Course, there's no telling what
that would do to the mage. (I connect the poor sot to the matrix
permenantly. He'd be living in both the matrix and the real world
simultaneously. Between the two he wouldn't last long. The next adventur
Message no. 13
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Game System
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:38:11 -0500
ERROR: This message seems to be empty. It is located at Week-of-Mon-19991025.txt::149003,262.
Message no. 14
From: Carsten Gehling alvion@****.uni2.dk
Subject: Game System
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:25:47 +0100
From: Michael Coleman <mscoleman@********.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 1999 11:43 AM

> Has anyone used the SR game system for different setting? I was
> thinking about using it in purely fantasy setting. I grew up on AD&D
> and have played many different games but the Shadowrun system is my
> favorite. Has anyone any experience or ideas for using SR in
> different setting?

A little late answer, but I've been away.

I ran a fantasy campaign a few years ago using a modification of the 2nd ed.
rules. If you're still interested, drop me an offlist mail, and I'll find
the document (word) containing the game system for you.

- Carsten

Offlist email: carsten@*******.dk
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"No, because I hate flies."
<===============================>
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