Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:51:36 -0600 (MDT)
A Halliwell wrote:
|
|Any of you seen Gargoyles?
|It's a cartoon series that seems to be of a quality to rival Batman.
|(Although, I've only seen the pilot story, called awakenings,
|coincidentally)

Keep watching it. The amount of intrigue that developes
would do a member of the illuminati proud. Gargoyles has
definitely become a major source of inspiration for my SRII
game.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Gargoyles
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:05:31 -0500
Can someone tell me about gargoyles. Gargoyle totems: advantages and
disadvantage? Gargoyles themselves: did they exist during the 4th
Age(Earthdawn time) and are they in the paranormal animals of europe
sourcebook?
Dust
Message no. 3
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:42:06 -0800
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Dust wrote:

> Can someone tell me about gargoyles. Gargoyle totems: advantages and
> disadvantage? Gargoyles themselves: did they exist during the 4th
> Age(Earthdawn time) and are they in the paranormal animals of europe
> sourcebook?
> Dust
>

1) totems: Env: Urban.
Adv: +1 detection/illusion, +2 city spirits.
Disadv: -1 spirits of the waters, must live in a skyscraper or
castle like structure (usually requires a high/luxury lifestyle).
pg 105 awakenings.
2) 4th age...I have no clue, not an ED player.
3) Yes, they do appear in PAoE and PAoNA (two variants total, or three if
you consider that PAoNA mentions two forms with the same stats..)

~Tim
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:47:37 +0100
Dust said on 14:05/12 Jan 97...

> Can someone tell me about gargoyles. Gargoyle totems: advantages and
> disadvantage?

See Awakenings page 105. Basically, +1 for Illusion spells, +2 for city
spirits, -1 for water spirits, and refuse to act hastily.

> Gargoyles themselves: did they exist during the 4th Age(Earthdawn time)

Yes. Stats are in the ED main rules on page 296, and there's also a color
plate of one.

> and are they in the paranormal animals of europe sourcebook?

Two kinds of gargoyle exist in SR: the American model is on page 68 of
PAoNA, the European gargoyle is on page 40 of PAoE. The European one is
generally tougher than the American one.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 5
From: Rookie <rookie@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:56:57 -0700
----------
> From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Gargoyles
> Date: Sunday, January 12, 1997 12:05 PM
>
> Can someone tell me about gargoyles. Gargoyle totems: advantages and
> disadvantage? Gargoyles themselves: did they exist during the 4th
> Age(Earthdawn time) and are they in the paranormal animals of europe
> sourcebook?
> Dust

I can't remember if they where around during Earthdawn,
But there is Gargoyle's in the Paranormal animals of Europe and North
America sourcebooks.

-Rookie

On the third day of the second month,
In the year of two thousand and one,
there will be war. There will be death.
THERE WILL BE ARMAGEDDON.
-{Nostradamos}-
rookie@*******.com
5546@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
Message no. 6
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:03:05 -0400
Anybody like the Gargoyles cartoon?

I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign. It'd
be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?
Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything like
the ones in the cartoon.

Would love any comments,

Dust
Message no. 7
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:49:11 -0400
> I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign. It'd
>be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?

Yes it would be cool.

>Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything like
>the ones in the cartoon.

Nope again. They are nothing alike.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ah at last! The TRANSFORMATION is complete!
For YEARS they mocked me! They took the name EMMANUEL LEWIS in vain!
But tonight RETRIBUTION will be mine!
For I am REBORN as --WEBSTER--, The adorable scamp of DOOM!
Ma'am's and Georges beware Webster walks the earth and he's got a
HANKERIN' for some SPANKERIN'!

Man did I nail this mad doctor routine or WHAT?
"Deadpool #4"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 8
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:59:31 -0600
Dust wrote:
|
| Anybody like the Gargoyles cartoon?

Love it.

| I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign. It'd
| be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?
| Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything like
| the ones in the cartoon.

The gargoyles in SR are way different. That doesn't mean you can't
change that for your game though. Also, the PCs wouldn't have to be
Gargoyles. They could be vampires or something (maybe cursed by an
unknown and now they turn to stone during the day, other than that
their normal (meta)humans).

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances
like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 9
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:00:11 EDT
On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:03:05 -0400 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG> writes:
>Anybody like the Gargoyles cartoon?
>
> I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign.
>It'd
>be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?
>Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything
>like
>the ones in the cartoon.


They aren't:) A friend of mine who used to (maybe still does) live on
Compuserve found a post that contained some new races a while back. Among
these was a Gargoyle race. It may not be exactly what you're looking for,
but it is certainly closer to the cartoon's Gargoyles than the ones in
PAoE.

Oh, yeah. I hand-copied the file (I still don't know who the author of
the original is) from a hardcopy of my friend's and posted the three
races contained therein to my page. You'll be looking for
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/ssguide.htm

Good luck!


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:02:32 +0100
|The gargoyles in SR are way different. That doesn't mean you can't
|change that for your game though. Also, the PCs wouldn't have to be
|Gargoyles. They could be vampires or something (maybe cursed by an
|unknown and now they turn to stone during the day, other than that
|their normal (meta)humans).

Or..... They COULD be......


Wait for it, wait for it.....

OBSIDIMEN.... (with a few minor modifications, like wings.....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:58:02 +0100
|
|Anybody like the Gargoyles cartoon?
|
| I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign. It'd
|be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?
|Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything like
|the ones in the cartoon.

I think the Gargoyles in ShR are just monsters, not intelligent goodies (or
baddies in the case of Demona) in the Cartoon.....

It makes the perfect setting for them though....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gargoyles
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 01:00:32 +0100
|
|> I'd really like to run Gargoyles like them in my campaign. It'd
|>be pretty darn interesting in a Shadowrun world dontcha think?
|
|Yes it would be cool.
|
|>Nonetheless i don't know if the Gargoyles in Shadowrun are anything like
|>the ones in the cartoon.
|
|Nope again. They are nothing alike.

Unless the Gargoyles from the cartoon haven't woken up yet, and are a
totally different creature, of course.....

(The only one walking around will be Demona at first, and she has other
problems to deal with, mainly Macbeth.....)

:)


--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject: Gargoyles
Date: Sat Mar 17 03:05:02 2001
> Gargoyles, in D&D at least, and how I've always seen them
> written up, are
> cruel carnivores with a cunning predators level intelligence.
<snip>
Hmm. But this isn't D&D is it? One of the unique aspects of
Shadowrun is the ability to use fantasy elements without
subjecting the game to fantasy stereotypes. In fact, it is
the fantasy stereotypes themselves that cause much of the
conflict between the Awakened races (a polite denizen of
the 6th world never brings up Tolkien). It isn't out of place
to conceive of a race of benevolent gargoyles, who are
hunted down and scorned by humans because of the
wicked actions of their gargoyle brethren. Or perhaps they
are a genetically engineered species that has gained
sentience and managed to escape from their corporate
masters ("Rats of NIMH"-type thing). The point is, by limiting
yourself to a fantasy stereotype, you reduce Shadowrun's
world to a "cyberpunk with fantasy" universe, rather than
fully appreciating the complex and rich universe that is
the 6th world. If Shadowrun fell back on fantasy stereotypes,
Orcs would be savage monsters, Elves would all be tree-
hugging bow slingers, and Dragons would sleep all day
guarding their hordes of treasure. Conversely, if Shadowrun
relied on cyberpunk stereotypes, it would always rain (granted,
Seattle is the default location), Corporations would rule
with an iron fist, and humanity would be a sullen breed
weighed down by the cancer of technology.

Realize that I'm taking a soapbox stand here, and that it
is not my intent to bash the previous writer's comments. On
the contrary, I see merit in his words, because according
to canon rules, Gargoyles are Awakened animals that are
not sentient. They are described as urban predators and
pests. However, by limiting gargoyles to merely a footnote
in a Paranormal Guide to Animals, one reduces them into
a list of stats and XP value (thank goodness Shadowrun
doesn't use XP in the traditional fantasy sense). A clever
Dungeon Master in D&D doesn't throw stats at his PCs...
he roleplays living, breathing creatures that have wants,
needs, and instincts. Thus, a Game Master in Shadowrun
needs to individualize every aspect of his/her game. It
isn't just another corp sec guard; it's Bob, ex-high school
football player, with a wife and two kids and probably not
getting paid enough to die at his job. Getting back to
Gargoyles: It is up to you whether or not every gargoyle
in your campaign is a predatory killer.

Perhaps the PC "thinks" she was raised by gargoyles,
but really they are implanted memories or some form of
bizarre schizophrenia. Maybe she led a normal life until
she got a nasty blow to the head and now her personality
is taken over by the last simsense she was slotting.
I still don't see the "raised by wolves" concept being fully
developed into a character concept, but then again, the
system allows people to play Shapeshifters and Ghouls.
There are always stranger things going on in the world.

Hahns Shin, MS I
Budding cybersurgeon
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: gargoyles
Date: Sat Mar 17 11:45:01 2001
To whoever the original poster was (Sorry, deleted my mail before deciding
to reply :))...

You could always take the disney route one step further...

http://bull.dumpshock.com/sr/gargoyle.html

<grin>

Bull
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Kismet)
Subject: gargoyles
Date: Sun Mar 18 08:05:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Bull <bull@***********.com>
To: RN <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: gargoyles


> To whoever the original poster was (Sorry, deleted my mail before deciding
> to reply :))...
>
I, of course, am highly offended :)


> You could always take the disney route one step further...
>
> http://bull.dumpshock.com/sr/gargoyle.html
>
> <grin>

Wow! I knew someone had to have thought of this. That's just about
everything I need to know to create her. I still haven't quite decided
whether to make her a PC or use her as an NPC when I GM. Thanks for the food
for thought.

Kismet

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Gargoyles, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!