Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:48:33 -0700
>> Wrong. Please, if you want to post on this shit, there are several
>pages
>>in the front of Shadowtech giving rules for bioware; read them.
>>
>>Mongoose
>
>Please people come on, let's be nice. I saw Blix post earlier on this
>thread saying correctly that mages (mages = magically active) DID lose
>Essence. She (Boy, I hop I go tthat right! :) just probably got confused
>or something. It happens to alot of (It sure happens to me!), so ley's
>give Blix a break okay?


I'm sorry, Blix. The comment was NOT aimed solely at you, nor intended as
a personal attack; Its just that this single topic (general Bioware rules) has
generated MORE erroneous posts than any other I can recall, and the rules are
printed quite plainly, and in a easily located section of the book. If people
checked it carefully and quoted references when posting on this topic (instead
of appending IIRC, which everybody seems to do, on this one topic), there
wouldn't be 2 erroneous posts to every good one in threads related to Bioware,
which has often been the case in the past. This may partly be due to the
books low availability, but hey, if you don't have it, you probably should not
use rules form it! Its unfortunate Wordman is no longer updating the SR2
shadowFAQ, because some more answers on Bioware probably should have gone in
long ago.
I personally think the Shadowtech Bioware rules are well written (if not
balanced). It boggles my mind the convoluted misreading people invent; I've
seen players in my group deduct BI from body (interesting- shows how good most
Bioware is), or from essence (even though mundane). Everybody seems to think
you can't get more than you have body (you can- it adds to all body tests,
though); this basically was Blix's mistake. Quite a few people also miss the
concept of bio-system overstress (the limit on boosts to any particular
attribute)- its an important one.



Mongoose
Message no. 2
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:39:40 -0400
Mongoose wrote:
> Its unfortunate Wordman is no longer updating the SR2
>shadowFAQ, because some more answers on Bioware probably should have gone in
>long ago.

Which ones, in particular?

For the record, though I am no longer updating the SR2 FAQ, I (and one
other) am still paying attention. If you think something should be in the
FAQ that isn't, tell me about it. The whole point of the FAQ is to make life
easier on lists like this by limiting just the kind of posts Mongoose
mentions.

Wordman
Message no. 3
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 18:50:00 -0700
>Mongoose wrote:
>> Its unfortunate Wordman is no longer updating the SR2
>>shadowFAQ, because some more answers on Bioware probably should have gone in
>>long ago.
>
>Which ones, in particular?
>
>For the record, though I am no longer updating the SR2 FAQ, I (and one
>other) am still paying attention. If you think something should be in the
>FAQ that isn't, tell me about it. The whole point of the FAQ is to make life
>easier on lists like this by limiting just the kind of posts Mongoose
>mentions.
>
>Wordman
>

#1 What effect does Bioware implantation have on mages?

I think thats in there

#2 What are the limits on Bioware use?

Technically, there are NO absolute limits on Bioware use. Theoretically,
anybody can get ALL the Bioware in existence, and live. [Unless, possibly,
they are a mage, and die from essence loss.} They won't live happy, but they
won't die from the Bioware itself. Instead, the TN for Body tests increases
by the amount which BI exceeded body, and they can suffer from bio-system
stress when using attributes boosted to 2 times their normal rating. [Rules
for both these effects are in Shadowtech, I'm sure you know where.]

Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:14:03 EDT
In a message dated 8/23/98 1:29:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:

> #1 What effect does Bioware implantation have on mages?
>
> I think thats in there

We need to see what changes the DLoH wants to make of the double whammy that
mages take with bioware (essence and magic loss, albeit both go hand in hand)
compared to mundanes which only have to worry about exceeding their Body in
bioware points.

> #2 What are the limits on Bioware use?
>
> Technically, there are NO absolute limits on Bioware use.
Theoretically,
<snip remainder of paragraph>

Umm, yes, there is a limit on the amount of bioware a person can have in them
is their unmodified Body attribute. Should you exceed your Body in bioware
points (aka Body Index) then you enter into something called Systemic Shock
(?!?) and you -DIE-.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 5
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:07:22 -0500
On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 05:14:03 EDT Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 8/23/98 1:29:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>evamarie@**********.net writes:
<SNIP>
>> #2 What are the limits on Bioware use?
>>
>> Technically, there are NO absolute limits on Bioware use.
>>Theoretically,
><snip remainder of paragraph>

>Umm, yes, there is a limit on the amount of bioware a person can have in
them
>is their unmodified Body attribute. Should you exceed your Body in
bioware
>points (aka Body Index) then you enter into something called Systemic
Shock
>(?!?) and you -DIE-.
>
>-Herc
>------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.

Read again. Quoting: "If an idividual exceeds his Body Index for bioware
implantation, he or she will go into system shock. While in such a
state, the character must make all Body Success Tests at a Target Number
+1 point higher for every point (or fraction thereof) he has exceeded his
Body Index. This penalty is in effect until the Body Index returns to 0
or to less than the character's natural, unaugmented Body Rating."
(Shadowtech, page 6)

Granted, this could use some rewording but no where does it say ANYthing
about dying ... If you can quote (with page number) where it says the
character dies, please do so. (My copy is a corrected 6th printing so
there may errors that have been corrected in mine or if yours is a later
printing, mine might be the one with errors.)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 6
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:43:58 EDT
In a message dated 8/23/1998 6:11:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

>
> Read again. Quoting: "If an idividual exceeds his Body Index for bioware
> implantation, he or she will go into system shock. While in such a
> state, the character must make all Body Success Tests at a Target Number
> +1 point higher for every point (or fraction thereof) he has exceeded his
> Body Index. This penalty is in effect until the Body Index returns to 0
> or to less than the character's natural, unaugmented Body Rating."
> (Shadowtech, page 6)

I'll leap in here. On page 5, first paragraph, second column, last sentence.
"His maximum Body Index is equal to his unaugmented Body Rating." Because of
this sentence, we have never allowed for a character to even -HAVE- the option
of going beyond the body attribute in points.

> Granted, this could use some rewording but no where does it say ANYthing
> about dying ... If you can quote (with page number) where it says the
> character dies, please do so. (My copy is a corrected 6th printing so
> there may errors that have been corrected in mine or if yours is a later
> printing, mine might be the one with errors.)

I know we -HAD- a copy of Shadowtech that mentioned Death if you went beyond
the Body Index, but that copy went south (literally, I think it's in
Indianapolis or at the very least in the hands of one of the other players).
That is probably what Mike B. is referring to/from.

-K

>
Message no. 7
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:20:38 -0700
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: General bioware rules; why so confusing?


>In a message dated 8/23/98 1:29:58 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>evamarie@**********.net writes:
>
>> #1 What effect does Bioware implantation have on mages?
>>
>> I think thats in there
>
>We need to see what changes the DLoH wants to make of the double whammy that
>mages take with bioware (essence and magic loss, albeit both go hand in hand)
>compared to mundanes which only have to worry about exceeding their Body in
>bioware points.
>

That would be pretty pointless to put in current SR2 faq, wouldn't it?
Unless those rules (which don't exist yet) are made to be compatable with SR2,
they should nevr go in ANY SR2 faq. (likely, they will be, even if MaM is a
"SR3 book".)

>> #2 What are the limits on Bioware use?
>>
>> Technically, there are NO absolute limits on Bioware use.
>Theoretically,
><snip remainder of paragraph>
>
>Umm, yes, there is a limit on the amount of bioware a person can have in them
>is their unmodified Body attribute. Should you exceed your Body in bioware
>points (aka Body Index) then you enter into something called Systemic Shock
>(?!?) and you -DIE-.
>

Does it ever SAY you die? No, it SAYS you get a +1 to all your body tests
for each point (or fraction thereof) by which BI exceedes body. Kinda
pointless to be making body tests if your DEAD, aint it? Hence, you do NOT
die form bioware (over)use. BI is NOTHING like essence loss.
Your answer there is exactly why I think this issue should go in a faq.
[and ther entire mess only plays up that bioware needs a good reworking].


Mongoose

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about General bioware rules; why so confusing?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!