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Message no. 1
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:22:10 GMT
Can anyone clear up some misconseptions i may have can an initiated
mage how has quickened spells to himself (increased intelligence +4)
still gain the effect of these spells while on an astral quest.

are the barrier spells visible?

and thanks for the help on the phys adept thing
Message no. 2
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:07:33 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>
> Can anyone clear up some misconseptions i may have can an initiated
> mage how has quickened spells to himself (increased intelligence +4)
> still gain the effect of these spells while on an astral quest.

He does get their help when projecting (I quote the ex-DLoH)

>> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
>> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
>> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
>
>Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!

I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
interfere.

> are the barrier spells visible?

Yes, hence the +1 visibility modifier to all attacks through the barrier.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 3
From: Chris McKinnon <cmckinno@********.CA>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:38:02 -0400
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> > Can anyone clear up some misconseptions i may have can an initiated
> > mage how has quickened spells to himself (increased intelligence +4)
> > still gain the effect of these spells while on an astral quest.
>
> He does get their help when projecting (I quote the ex-DLoH)
>
> >> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> >> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> >> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
> >
> >Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
>
> I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
> tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
> interfere.
>
How can you agree with the previous answer? According to page 86 of the
Grimoire, under the section of Humans on the Astral, it clearly states:

"...Generally speaking, cyberware or bioware that boosts Intelligence
does not affect the Astral Physical Attributes. In fact, most things,
including non-permanent magics (sustained, locked, or quickened) do not
affect Attributes in astral space. Increases available to physical adepts
do, however."

That should simplify the question.

=============================================================================
Enigma = "Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun..."
Chris McKinnon = - Ash, Army of Darkness
cmckinno@********.ca =
Message no. 4
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 08:52:01 -0700
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone clear up some misconseptions i may have can an
>> initiated mage how has quickened spells to himself
>> (increased intelligence +4) still gain the effect of these
>> spells while on an astral quest.
>
> He does get their help when projecting (I quote the ex-DLoH)

No. The only things that allow an increase to your Int *that
follows you while projecting is: Cerebral Booster and
an Encephalon. *magic spells do not project with you.*

>>> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
>>> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
>>> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
>>
>>Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
>
>I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral
>quests tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should
>be allowed to interfere.

Agreed: But I also don't agree that any spells assist you astrally.

>> are the barrier spells visible?
>
>Yes, hence the +1 visibility modifier to all attacks through the
>barrier.

Yes.

Thanks
Gary C.
Message no. 5
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:56:36 +0100
Gary Carroll wrote:
> Agreed: But I also don't agree that any spells assist you astrally.

I'm afraid that both the ex-DLoH and SRII disagree with you there.
Remember we'r talking locked/quickenes spells, not sustained ones. You
canot sustain spells and project.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 6
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:56:59 +0100
Chris McKinnon wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:
>
> > HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> > > Can anyone clear up some misconseptions i may have can an initiated
> > > mage how has quickened spells to himself (increased intelligence +4)
> > > still gain the effect of these spells while on an astral quest.
> >
> > He does get their help when projecting (I quote the ex-DLoH)
> >
> > >> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> > >> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> > >> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
> > >
> > >Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
> >
> > I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
> > tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
> > interfere.
> >
> How can you agree with the previous answer? According to page 86 of the
> Grimoire, under the section of Humans on the Astral, it clearly states:
>
> "...Generally speaking, cyberware or bioware that boosts Intelligence
> does not affect the Astral Physical Attributes. In fact, most things,
> including non-permanent magics (sustained, locked, or quickened) do not
> affect Attributes in astral space. Increases available to physical adepts
> do, however."

Erm, isnt that what I just said ?

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:47:52 GMT
Jani Fikouras writes
>
> >> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> >> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> >> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
> >
> >Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
>
> I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
> tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
> interfere.
>
You what?

Can you check this as i was under the impression the 2nd edition main
rulebook sepecifically says they don't go with you when you project,
i remember losing 4D6 initative on the astral when a GM found that
rule :(. Mana barriers are an excption though stay centered on your
body.

On metaplanar, if it looks like the real world - as physical plane.
If astral or you just roll the dice call it as the astral plane.
Well thats what i think.

while we are at it, how about spells quickened [not locked] to a
spirit, has no physical component so could stay attached to the
spirit while its on the astral.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:26:26 -0400
Chris McKinnon wrote:

>How can you agree with the previous answer? According to page 86 of the
>Grimoire, under the section of Humans on the Astral, it clearly states:
>
>"...Generally speaking, cyberware or bioware that boosts Intelligence
>does not affect the Astral Physical Attributes. In fact, most things,
>including non-permanent magics (sustained, locked, or quickened) do not
>affect Attributes in astral space. Increases available to physical adepts
>do, however."
>
>That should simplify the question.

Um, this may be a stupid question, but since Physical Adepts don't have access
to astral space, why are their abilities the only exceptions to the rule? ;)

Just curious.


Justin :)
(jpinnow@*****.edu)
Message no. 9
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:24:41 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "JP" == Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
writes:

JP> Um, this may be a stupid question, but since Physical Adepts don't
JP> have access to astral space, why are their abilities the only
JP> exceptions to the rule? ;)

Because even non-magicians can enter astral space via one of the powers
of a free spirit.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ returned to its special container and
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ kept under refrigeration.
Message no. 10
From: "John W. Carter" <scarterjw@****.TRISTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:12:52 -0500
>>>>>> "JP" == Justin Pinnow
<jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU> writes:
>
>JP> Um, this may be a stupid question, but since Physical Adepts don't
>JP> have access to astral space, why are their abilities the only
>JP> exceptions to the rule? ;)
>
>Because even non-magicians can enter astral space via one of the powers
>of a free spirit.

Two words: Astral Perception. Phys-Ads don't enter the Astral plane, so
their abilities are still tied to the physical and, therefore, to their
phys-ad powers.

/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
| John W. Carter |Janice: You had a brother who was a |
| SCarterJW@****.tristate.edu | comedian? |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|Dr. Bob: Yes, but that was before he fell |
| Card-carrying member of: | into a vat of molten optical |
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\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
Message no. 11
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:13:28 -0400
I wrote:

>>JP> Um, this may be a stupid question, but since Physical Adepts don't
>>JP> have access to astral space, why are their abilities the only
>>JP> exceptions to the rule? ;)
>>

Rat replied:

>>Because even non-magicians can enter astral space via one of the powers
>>of a free spirit.

John W. Carter replied:

>Two words: Astral Perception. Phys-Ads don't enter the Astral plane, so
>their abilities are still tied to the physical and, therefore, to their
>phys-ad powers.

Heh. Thanks for the Free Spirit info, Rat....didn't know that ;)

John: Well, I guess it's nice to have an explaination, but since I didn't think
that Physical Adepts ever entered the Astral Plane, I didn't think an
explaination was very useful ;) Now that I know Free Spirits can take them in,
I guess it's nice to have an explaination that makes sense, though :)


Justin :)
Message no. 12
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:17:40 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "JWC" == John W Carter <scarterjw@****.TRISTATE.EDU>
writes:

>> Because even non-magicians can enter astral space via one of the
>> powers of a free spirit.

JWC> Two words: Astral Perception. Phys-Ads don't enter the Astral
JWC> plane, so their abilities are still tied to the physical and,
JWC> therefore, to their phys-ad powers.

Apples and eggs. Any astrally perceiving entity uses her natural,
physical stats, not her potential astral stats. A physical adept that is
in astral space, *projecting*, not just perceiving, due to that spirit
ability I mentioned, does get any magical bonuses from his abilities
that might apply where any spellcasting mage would not. Ie, an astrally
perceiving Physical Adept with 2 extra Initiative dice rolls
Reaction+3D6. The same Adept projected into astral space via that spirit
ability uses his *Astral* Reaction+3D6; everyone else only gets the
normal Reaction+1D6.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ head.
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:07:11 +0930
Jani Fikouras wrote:
> >> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> >> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> >> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
> >
> >Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
>
> I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
> tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
> interfere.

They don't even apply to Astral Space... oh the quickenings/spell locks are
THERE, but the spells don't work in astral space. :)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:12:30 +0930
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> Um, this may be a stupid question, but since Physical Adepts don't have access
> to astral space, why are their abilities the only exceptions to the rule? ;)
>
> Just curious.
>

Astral perception.
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:11:48 +0930
Mark Steedman wrote:
<stuff about spells deleted>

> Can you check this as i was under the impression the 2nd edition main
> rulebook sepecifically says they don't go with you when you project,
> i remember losing 4D6 initative on the astral when a GM found that
> rule :(. Mana barriers are an excption though stay centered on your
> body.

1) All spell locks/quickenings/foci/etc exist on the astral, and you take
them with you when you project.

2) The increase attribute spells don't work on the Astral.

> On metaplanar, if it looks like the real world - as physical plane.
> If astral or you just roll the dice call it as the astral plane.
> Well thats what i think.

Each Place is differet... you can have your spell locks, you can find
yourself a massive cybersam, or you can find yourself as aked and powerless
as the day you were born. All depends on how the GM feels. :)

> while we are at it, how about spells quickened [not locked] to a
> spirit, has no physical component so could stay attached to the
> spirit while its on the astral.

See above...

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 16
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 01:59:00 EST
>"...Generally speaking, cyberware or bioware that boosts Intelligence
>does not affect the Astral Physical Attributes. In fact, most things,
>including non-permanent magics (sustained, locked, or quickened) do not
>affect Attributes in astral space. Increases available to physical adepts
>do, however."
Uh, excuse me, please note one of my previous posting where I quoted a
section from quickenings. They are permanent.:)
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:48:09 +0930
Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
> Uh, excuse me, please note one of my previous posting where I quoted a
> section from quickenings. They are permanent.:)
> ---Sedah Drol

No, they are not... they are just long lasting... Besides, I believe he was
quoting the Grimoire verbatim..
--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 18
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:04:54 GMT
in that case say you are using the rules proposed in this list for
the physical magician then it is possible for a person to have
mystical armour on the metaplane now that is one neat advantage.
Message no. 19
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:16:46 GMT
Robert Watkins writes

> Mark Steedman wrote:
>
> > while we are at it, how about spells quickened [not locked] to a
> > spirit, has no physical component so could stay attached to the
> > spirit while its on the astral.
>
> See above...
>
By a literal interpretation, i suppose they are not present but this
is a slightly different case. The trick here is that instead of
asking a spell locked to a magicians physical body to try and project
you are using a spell that is locked directly to the spirits astral
body, which is its natural form. I was looking for comment on this
suggestion, can you prove categorically that you cannot do this
[allowing for the fact that the context of the normal bad has been
'sort of' dodged], or do you have opinions?

Then there comes the case of the clever players than quickened a +3D6
initative spell to the rigger for the duration of HB, so he had some
initative. That was allowed as it made him equal [ie made things
fair on that player], was clever, and really magic was generally
operating as if this was a 'different' real world.

Mark
Message no. 20
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:09:33 GMT
physical adepts can get access to astral space but the same way as
non adept by asking a free spirit with astral gateway to kindly allow
him to do so

in other words they can't!
Message no. 21
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:04:59 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>
> physical adepts can get access to astral space but the same way as
> non adept by asking a free spirit with astral gateway to kindly allow
> him to do so

Do you consider astral perception nothing ? Ok they may not be able to
do the funky lying tricks nor intercept spells, but they can do all the
rest.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 22
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:11:03 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "HJ" == HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK> writes:

HJ> physical adepts can get access to astral space but the same way as
HJ> non adept by asking a free spirit with astral gateway to kindly
HJ> allow him to do so

HJ> in other words they can't!

"Can't" and "won't" are not synonymous. It is mechanically feasable
for
the spirit to let the adept (or anyone else for that matter) through the
gate. Will it do so is another matter entirely.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Message no. 23
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:30:42 +0930
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
>
> in that case say you are using the rules proposed in this list for
> the physical magician then it is possible for a person to have
> mystical armour on the metaplane now that is one neat advantage.

*shrug* On the metaplanes, the GM rules what you can and can not have...
simple, uh?

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 24
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 12:10:00 EST
>Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
>> Uh, excuse me, please note one of my previous posting where I quoted a
>> section from quickenings. They are permanent.:)
>> ---Sedah Drol
>
>No, they are not... they are just long lasting... Besides, I believe he was
>quoting the Grimoire verbatim..
Since you diagree with me I shall prove my point by requoting what I
previously posted. Grim2 p44 first line under the heading "QUICKENING":
"Quickening is metamagic that can make any sustained spell permanent..."
Therefore quickenings are permanent.
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
GO>CS d- s:--- a21 C++++>$ U--- P L-- E? W+>W+++ N o? K? w+>w++++ O--- M-- V
PS+++ PE Y+ PGP- t++ 5+ X++ R++>+++$ tv++ b- DI++ D+ G++ e* h r++ y++
Message no. 25
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:53:48 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "VR" == Victor Rodriguez, <sedahdro@*****.COM>
writes:

VR> "Quickening is metamagic that can make any sustained spell
VR> permanent..."

Until you destroy it via astral combat of some sort. Try that trick
against a physical adept sometime and see how what happens.

VR> Therefore quickenings are permanent.

I really love it when people cite only part of the rules to support
their positions while ignoring the rules as a whole.

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--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
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Message no. 26
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:56:06 -0400
On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:

> "Quickening is metamagic that can make any sustained spell permanent..."
> Therefore quickenings are permanent.

Until somebody attacks it astrally or just out-and-out dispells
it, that is.

Marc
Message no. 27
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:36:54 +0930
Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:
> Since you diagree with me I shall prove my point by requoting what I
> previously posted. Grim2 p44 first line under the heading "QUICKENING":
> "Quickening is metamagic that can make any sustained spell permanent..."
> Therefore quickenings are permanent.

Very nice, so you backed up your own argument... now, while you were
there, did you check out the OTHER bit that was quoted to see if they come
with you when you project?

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 28
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:25:29 +0100
Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> Jani Fikouras wrote:
> > >> 1. Are quickened/spelllocked spells active in astral space
> > >> For example: Intelligence +4, Charisma +4, Willpower +4...
> > >> ( Spells that could really beef up a projecting mage )
> > >
> > >Yes they are active. Can you say "Yippe!"? I knew you could!
> >
> > I'd say however that they dont apply to astral quests. An astral quests
> > tests the very soul of the magician, no boosting magic should be allowed to
> > interfere.
>
> They don't even apply to Astral Space... oh the quickenings/spell locks are
> THERE, but the spells don't work in astral space. :)

Well how do you explain the DLoH's reply then ? I figure the rule in SRII
applies to sustained spells. You cant sustain them while entering the astral
(exclusive action) and you cant recast/sustain them when you get there.
But the book doesnt say that a locked/quickened spell doesnt work.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 29
From: "Victor Rodriguez, Jr" <sedahdro@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:17:00 EST
>Very nice, so you backed up your own argument... now, while you were
>there, did you check out the OTHER bit that was quoted to see if they come
>with you when you project?
I've looked through both grim1 and 2 but could not find anything saying that
they do or don't, but I would assume that since foci go with you quickenings
would go with you too. But I did find out that any spell that boosts your
attributes (sustained, quickened, or locked) does not affect your astral
attributes. In other words that increased reaction spell that you might have
locked will not work in the astral if you are projecting.
---Sedah Drol
--
I know where my towel is, do you?
GC3.1
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Message no. 30
From: Chris McKinnon <cmckinno@********.CA>
Subject: Re: general queries?
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:16:00 -0400
On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, Jani Fikouras wrote:

> Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> [Stuff Deleted]
> >
> > They don't even apply to Astral Space... oh the quickenings/spell locks are
> > THERE, but the spells don't work in astral space. :)
>
> Well how do you explain the DLoH's reply then ? I figure the rule in SRII
> applies to sustained spells. You cant sustain them while entering the astral
> (exclusive action) and you cant recast/sustain them when you get there.
> But the book doesnt say that a locked/quickened spell doesnt work.
>
Jani - re-read page 86 of the Grimoire (2nd Edition). It specifically
states that that _includes_ quickened spells. Nowhere does it say that
all quickened spells do not work on the Astral - only Attribute modifying
spells! That is likely where the ambiguity comes from.

The DLoH may have been generalizing on quickened spells on the Astral,
and ignoring the _rule_ stating that Attribute modifying spells do not
work on the Astral.

=============================================================================
Enigma = "Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun..."
Chris McKinnon = - Ash, Army of Darkness
cmckinno@********.ca =
Message no. 31
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:06:02 GMT
that is what i meant how many player characters have you known that
is willing to do something for another person without some kind of
gain?
Message no. 32
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:00:13 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> that is what i meant how many player characters have you known that
> is willing to do something for another person without some kind of
> gain?

I take it you mean "real" runners, not wussies :) like Dirk Montgomery
and the like. *Very* few and (smiley mode off) I really think that this
is the way things should be. After all runners are criminals that do
bad things for money, never forget that.

--
GCS d s+: p1 a-->? C++++ UA++$S++L+++>++++ L+++ E--- W+ N+ w(--) M-- !V(--)
PS+ PE Y+ PGP-- @*++ 5++ X++ R+++ tv++ b++ G+++ e++ h+(*) r

"In my mind I see the matrix, and in the matrix is held the power. The lock
to the matrix is my will, and in the matrix my will becomes the power."
Message no. 33
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:14:00 PDT
HALOWEEN JACK wrote:
> that is what i meant how many player characters have you known that
> is willing to do something for another person without some kind of
> gain?

My characters usually wind up spending more money one the run than he makes.
For several runs, like those that involve other PC's he will do it for
nothing and usually spend 50k?. Mind you when the run is over I have one or
two buddies, who I can count on to cash in a favor later. If they reneg
then something miserable usually happens when I finish run. After all a
good buddy or cantacts are worth much more than money.
Message no. 34
From: HALOWEEN JACK <SBC3KCB@*******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:57:49 GMT
yes but in the case of the group i run yes some of the group would do
a run to help some one out but one now deceased member of my group
was so obnoxious that making buddies on runs was impossible because
he has greased to Mr J's that he didn't like and was losing his
contacts by the buckey load what with .01 essence and every thing
Message no. 35
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 12:06:33 +0100
HALOWEEN JACK said on 23 Oct 95...

> yes but in the case of the group i run yes some of the group would do
> a run to help some one out but one now deceased member of my group
> was so obnoxious that making buddies on runs was impossible because
> he has greased to Mr J's that he didn't like and was losing his
> contacts by the buckey load what with .01 essence and every thing

Just a polite little question: does your keyboard miss any of the
following keys, maybe? caps lock, shift, semi-colon, and comma?
It's really a pain to read those messages of yours, and this must be one
of the worst so far...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So what does it mean when your mind starts to stray?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 36
From: Christopher C Mooney <ccmooney@********.CA>
Subject: Re: General Queries
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:07:38 -0400
On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Gurth wrote:

> HALOWEEN JACK said on 23 Oct 95...
>
> > yes but in the case of the group i run yes some of the group would do
> > a run to help some one out but one now deceased member of my group
> > was so obnoxious that making buddies on runs was impossible because
> > he has greased to Mr J's that he didn't like and was losing his
> > contacts by the buckey load what with .01 essence and every thing
>
> Just a polite little question: does your keyboard miss any of the
> following keys, maybe? caps lock, shift, semi-colon, and comma?
> It's really a pain to read those messages of yours, and this must be one
> of the worst so far...

Ditto! It already takes enough time to peruse the daily postings;
I don't need the added drudgery of decoding poor grammar and non-existent
sentence structure.
Japes.

Further Reading

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