Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: German Versions
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:38:24 +0100
>Ah. So you can maybe tell me why the translation of so many
>sourcebooks is so bad ? Was it intended to create a new RPG or was it
>just due to some people not paying enough attention ?
>(no offense intended - I'd like a serious answer)

None taken.
Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).
Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
partially involved in SR Stuff.
Message no. 2
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: German Versions
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:38:39 GMT
Guido Hölker (guido@******.COM) wrote:
: None taken.

That is good. ;-)

: Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about

Sure. Just some things that come to my mind at once:

- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
version

- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
there are the original english drain codes, though).

- The Bioware muscles enhance Quickness and REACTION by their level
but do NOT affect Strength.

there are many more, but I'd have to think about it... maybe I should
always write it down when we discover one of these strange things.

: translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
: don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
: I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).

Translations are one thing and definitely something you have to like
or not to like. My group hates some of the german translations for
names and concepts. One example is the word "T-Bird" for "Thunderbird"
(these extremely cool LAVs) ... this is pretty cool. The german
translation would have been "Donnervogel" which would have been kinda
cool as well, but what did they call it ? Schweber ! This sounds like
it is a little gay fairy hovering around or some annoying insect.

We actually once had a situation where some friend of ours wanted to
do an adventure for us and there was a situation when the brown stuff
really hit the fan (isn't it always *grin*)... he told us: "You see
four Schweber" - we all said "So what ? I swat them" or "What the
hell, let's ignore them" until we realized there were 4 T-Birds
chasing us. It only took us 5 minutes to realize that. *laugh*

O.k. - I have to admit it is a question of taste and you could discuss
about it, but I personally think the translators have done a REALLY
bad job on several things.

: Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
: partially involved in SR Stuff.

Sure. I didn't want to offend you, but I just could not believe that
the translators could have been too dumb to translate
NUMBERS... anyway: In our group we made up a small collection of
Houserules and one of the first was: "If in doubt: ALWAYS use the
English orginal - the only exception is "Deutschland in den Schatten"
(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 3
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: German Versions
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:24:46 +0100
>: Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
>

>
>- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
>version
True. Because if you make a burst with an 3-point-recoil.penalty, the whole
burst-mode is completely senseless (you are far better of on full auto-fire
in this cas, can hit a few targets more if the odds are right), so this was
by intention.
>- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
>manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
>there are the original english drain codes, though).
Also true, but if you cross-check you will see that there are a lot of
inconsequences on the original we tried to clean up, and for the drain codes
there are a few differences between the book and the table in the original
already. we cleared some of them and made new in nearly the same amount; mut
have been a blind editor here.
>
>- The Bioware muscles enhance Quickness and REACTION by their level
>but do NOT affect Strength.
This definatly has been a blind an deaf editor: Plainly a mistake and noone
recognized.
>there are many more, but I'd have to think about it... maybe I should
>always write it down when we discover one of these strange things.
The very best you forgot: In the english version Priority C in money means
90,000 Bucks, in the german version only 50,000. And until September of this
year (and it's out since a few years now) NOONE NOTICED! (at least noone
here nad nooen told us). That was a hard one..

>Translations are one thing and definitely something you have to like
>or not to like. My group hates some of the german translations for
>names and concepts. One example is the word "T-Bird" for
"Thunderbird"
>(these extremely cool LAVs) ... this is pretty cool. The german
>translation would have been "Donnervogel" which would have been kinda
>cool as well, but what did they call it ? Schweber ! This sounds like
>it is a little gay fairy hovering around or some annoying insect.
*Schweber* is the classical german name for LAVs snce the first years of SF;
we took it because we thaough it would be better to recognize then
*Donnervogel". A Donnervogel isn't only the correct trabnslation of T-Bird
but a mystical northern Animal as well and we didn't want to sound it like a
critter.

>
>O.k. - I have to admit it is a question of taste and you could discuss
>about it, but I personally think the translators have done a REALLY
>bad job on several things.
Taste:: Yes; absolutely. And I'm far away from saing that every traslation
is a good one..
>: Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
>: partially involved in SR Stuff.
>
In our group we made up a small collection of
>Houserules and one of the first was: "If in doubt: ALWAYS use the
>English orginal - the only exception is "Deutschland in den Schatten"
>(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
>my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.
Sorry to say, but this isn't a house rule: We stated in every book we made
changes in that in question of doubt the original version is the correct
one. And furthermore: As we have to pay so much roylaties to FASA that they
can pay their RPG-Police, we don't have money for our own. So as much as We
would like to hunt you down and sue the last penny out of you if you change
the rules, we can't..

I hope this explaines a bit (even if you still disagree?)
But if there are any more questions: just ask, adn if give stupid answers,
kick my butt.

Guido
Message no. 4
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: German Versions
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:01:57 GMT
Guido Hölker (guido@******.COM) wrote:
: >- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
: >version
: True. Because if you make a burst with an 3-point-recoil.penalty, the whole
: burst-mode is completely senseless (you are far better of on full auto-fire
: in this cas, can hit a few targets more if the odds are right), so this was
: by intention.

Actually I think that's nonsense. We are playing the original rules
and we NEVER had any problems with it.

: >- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
: >manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
: >there are the original english drain codes, though).
: Also true, but if you cross-check you will see that there are a lot of
: inconsequences on the original we tried to clean up, and for the drain codes
: there are a few differences between the book and the table in the original
: already. we cleared some of them and made new in nearly the same amount; mut
: have been a blind editor here.

Sorry to say that, but: You failed miserably. There was no
clarification at all - you just screwed a lot of the spells up.

: *Schweber* is the classical german name for LAVs snce the first years of SF;

Huh ? Where from ??

: we took it because we thaough it would be better to recognize then
: *Donnervogel". A Donnervogel isn't only the correct trabnslation of T-Bird
: but a mystical northern Animal as well and we didn't want to sound it like a
: critter.

Why ? A "Hummer" sounds like an animal as well - where is the problem
with that ?

: >(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
: >my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.
: Sorry to say, but this isn't a house rule: We stated in every book we made
: changes in that in question of doubt the original version is the correct
: one. And furthermore: As we have to pay so much roylaties to FASA that they
: can pay their RPG-Police, we don't have money for our own. So as much as We
: would like to hunt you down and sue the last penny out of you if you change
: the rules, we can't..

Huh ? Then why did you change rules at all if you then print "Whatever
we changed is stupid, the english original counts." into your books ?

: I hope this explaines a bit (even if you still disagree?)
: But if there are any more questions: just ask, adn if give stupid answers,

Sure. I hope you didn't feel offended too much, but I am really tired
of these German translations. Actually in my group you hide your
German sourcebooks (if you own any) - ashamed that you bought this
crap. *grin*

: kick my butt.

Cool. Thanks for the invitation ! ;-)

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 5
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: German Versions
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:56:59 +0000
On 12 Dec 96 at 15:38, Guido Hoelker wrote:

> >Ah. So you can maybe tell me why the translation of so many
> >sourcebooks is so bad ? Was it intended to create a new RPG or was it
> >just due to some people not paying enough attention ?
> >(no offense intended - I'd like a serious answer)
>
> None taken.
> Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
> translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
> don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
> I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).
> Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
> partially involved in SR Stuff.

You know what the problem with fanpro's politic of changing the
original rules is? It makes the german and the english versions
incompatible. In our group we use both versions (german and english),
because some of our players are not so good at english. And it gives
us (who are using the original) a hard time to explain the others
(who are using the german books), why they are wrong with their usage
of the rule - just because fanpro once more decided to change the
rules. Would it at least be possible to take down the original
version of the rule, too? Or make a hint, that you changed the rules
there? But after all, I think this policy sucks. Please stick to the
original - there are more than enough problems with the german
versions, just because your translators do not seem to be too proficient
with the english language. OFTEN enough they miss the semantic behind
a rule or explanation of the english text. That's why I stick to
english books.

Btw. What does FASA think about that?

Mike

couldn't

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about German Versions, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!