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Message no. 1
From: flakjacket@***********.com (flakjacket@***********.com)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:39:46 +0100 (BST)
Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

> Well, I can't speak on FanPro's/WizKids' behalf, but I don't think that
> Germany
> will be covered in depth in Shadows of Europe.
> The sourcebook "Deutschland in den Sschatten" has been updated recently
> and is at the year 2063 by now.

Actually Germany is getting a chapter to itself for SoE last I heard. They're basically
looking at doing a scaled down version of DidS 2 AFAIK. This is mainly because whilst DidS
2 is a hefty tome, not everyone speaks German and it'd be a bit odd to leave a massive
Germany sized hole in the western Europe sourcebook. :)

Simon
Message no. 2
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:26:59 -0500
At 12:39 AM 4/1/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Phillip Gawlowski wrote:
>
> > Well, I can't speak on FanPro's/WizKids' behalf, but I don't think that
> > Germany
> > will be covered in depth in Shadows of Europe.
> > The sourcebook "Deutschland in den Sschatten" has been updated
recently
> > and is at the year 2063 by now.
>
>Actually Germany is getting a chapter to itself for SoE last I heard.
>They're basically looking at doing a scaled down version of DidS 2 AFAIK.
>This is mainly because whilst DidS 2 is a hefty tome, not everyone speaks
>German and it'd be a bit odd to leave a massive Germany sized hole in the
>western Europe sourcebook. :)

Hefty? :]

IIRC, Germany 2 is close to the same size as the SR3 core book :]

<grin>

Bull
Message no. 3
From: arcaist@************.de (Patrick 'Arcaist' Theiner)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:02:12 +0200
From: "Bull"
> Hefty? :]
> IIRC, Germany 2 is close to the same size as the SR3
> core book :]

344 pages... yes, they went a bit overboard with that.
But it should be no problem to scale that down - even better writers
tend to repeat themselves if they have to fill 300+ pages with
descriptions of small, but somehow hugely interesting (*cough, cough*)
towns in the Black Forest... ; )

--
Patrick "Arcaist" Theiner
www.saeder-krupp.de
This email was hand-typed by one of our thousands
of specially trained gorillas at the Arcaist Message
Center (AMC) in Tuebingen, Germany. Help I'm
trapped in cage and can't get out. Want bananas.
Message no. 4
From: markus.widmer@******.at (Markus Widmer)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:21 +0200
> 344 pages... yes, they went a bit overboard with that.
> But it should be no problem to scale that down - even better writers
> tend to repeat themselves if they have to fill 300+ pages with
> descriptions of small, but somehow hugely interesting (*cough, cough*)
> towns in the Black Forest... ; )

DidS2 is definitely OTT. I got the impression that the editors weren't
sure where to focus and decided to just do it all. I bought it for
reference, but I'm not inclined to read it through. It is just too much.

I'm looking forward to SoE, most of all because I am Swiss and I have
never had the chance to read anything about Switzerland in SR (I missed
"Chrom & Dioxin").

Markus Widmer
Message no. 5
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 05:12:05 -0500
At 10:02 AM 4/1/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>From: "Bull"
> > Hefty? :]
> > IIRC, Germany 2 is close to the same size as the SR3
> > core book :]
>
>344 pages... yes, they went a bit overboard with that.
>But it should be no problem to scale that down - even better writers
>tend to repeat themselves if they have to fill 300+ pages with
>descriptions of small, but somehow hugely interesting (*cough, cough*)
>towns in the Black Forest... ; )
Oh, I agree. Was just replyingn to the "Hefty" comment someone else made :]

I laughed myself silly when I saw the Germany book at Gen Con last year. :]

Bull
Message no. 6
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:34:43 +0200
According to Bull, on Tuesday 01 April 2003 12:12 the word on the street
was...

> I laughed myself silly when I saw the Germany book at Gen Con last year.
> :]

It does replace three books, which total 196 + 128 + 160 = 484 pages,
though. I'm still not sure if I'll buy a copy this October (I passed the
last two years) but I probably will...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: zebulingod@*****.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:41:47 -0800
"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

It does replace three books, which total 196 + 128 + 160 = 484 pages,
though. I'm still not sure if I'll buy a copy this October (I passed the
last two years) but I probably will...

--

It's only available in German, yes? Too bad, cause I'd love an English copy!

Zeb
Message no. 8
From: teddy-k@*****.de (Jens Brouwer)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:48:35 +0200
On 1 Apr 2003 at 11:41, Zebulin Magby wrote:

> "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
>
> It does replace three books, which total 196 + 128 + 160 = 484 pages,
> though. I'm still not sure if I'll buy a copy this October (I passed the
> last two years) but I probably will...
>
> --
>
> It's only available in German, yes? Too bad, cause I'd love an English copy!
>
> Zeb
>
>

It will propably not be translated to english because the first Deutschland in den
Schatten (Germany in the shadows) hadn't had much of a success in America
Message no. 9
From: JediEye@**.rr.com (JediEye)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:54:14 -0600
"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:

It does replace three books, which total 196 + 128 + 160 = 484 pages,
though. I'm still not sure if I'll buy a copy this October (I passed the
last two years) but I probably will...

--

It's only available in German, yes? Too bad, cause I'd love an English
copy!

Zeb

--

This was mentioned on the dumpshock boards a few weeks ago. The Germany
sourcebook will be available only in German with no translation. It's
unfortunate, but I can understand the business reasons behind it.
Message no. 10
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:08:58 -0800
On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:48:35 +0200
"Jens Brouwer" <teddy-k@*****.de> wrote:
> On 1 Apr 2003 at 11:41, Zebulin Magby wrote:
>
> It will propably not be translated to english because the first Deutschland
> in den
> Schatten (Germany in the shadows) hadn't had much of a success in America

Well, I got mine, like I only needed one copy back in those days.
--Anders
Message no. 11
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:09:19 -0800
On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:48:35 +0200
"Jens Brouwer" <teddy-k@*****.de> wrote:
> On 1 Apr 2003 at 11:41, Zebulin Magby wrote:
>
> It will propably not be translated to english because the first Deutschland
> in den
> Schatten (Germany in the shadows) hadn't had much of a success in America

Well, I got mine, like I only needed one copy back in those days.
--Anders
Message no. 12
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:09:25 -0800
On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:48:35 +0200
"Jens Brouwer" <teddy-k@*****.de> wrote:
> On 1 Apr 2003 at 11:41, Zebulin Magby wrote:
>
> It will propably not be translated to english because the first Deutschland
> in den
> Schatten (Germany in the shadows) hadn't had much of a success in America

Well, I got mine, like I only needed one copy back in those days.
--Anders
Message no. 13
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:11:14 -0800
On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:08:58 -0800
Sorry, Little mail program burp, there!
--Anders
Message no. 14
From: zebulingod@*****.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 17:27:09 -0800
"Jens Brouwer" <teddy-k@*****.de> wrote:

> On 1 Apr 2003 at 11:41, Zebulin Magby wrote:
>
> > "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> wrote:
> >
> > It does replace three books, which total 196 + 128 + 160 = 484 pages,
> > though. I'm still not sure if I'll buy a copy this October (I passed the
> > last two years) but I probably will...
> >
> > --
> >
> > It's only available in German, yes? Too bad, cause I'd love an English
copy!
> >
> > Zeb
> >
> >
>
> It will propably not be translated to english because the first
Deutschland in den
> Schatten (Germany in the shadows) hadn't had much of a success in America

There was a first one? Was it just the Germany Sourcebook or did I miss
something somewhere?

Zebulin
Message no. 15
From: flakjacket@***********.com (flakjacket@***********.com)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:55:18 +0100 (BST)
Zebulin Magby wrote:

> There was a first one? Was it just the Germany Sourcebook or did I miss
> something somewhere?

IIRC, there was the first Germany sourcebook which was translated into English- and sold
sod all AFAIK- then an updated version- v2.1 or something- of that, and finally DidS 2.
But I'm not a hundred percent sure on that. Any German list members want to chime in?

Simon
Message no. 16
From: 520074903613-0001@********.de (Thorger_SÃŒnert)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:44:34 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: <flakjacket@***********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]


> Zebulin Magby wrote:
>
> > There was a first one? Was it just the Germany Sourcebook or did I miss
> > something somewhere?
>
> IIRC, there was the first Germany sourcebook which was translated into
English- and sold sod all AFAIK- then an updated version- v2.1 or something-
of that, and finally DidS 2. But I'm not a hundred percent sure on that. Any
German list members want to chime in?

1.ed
Deutschland in den Schatten Translated, modified and published as Germany in
the Shadows
(AFAIK)

2ed
Deutschland in den Schatten
Chrom und Dioxin Update, some new Areas and Switzerland (?)
Walzer, Punks und Schwarzes Ice Update, some new Areas and Austria

3ed.
Deutschland in den Schatten 2
Message no. 17
From: cmd_jackryan@***.de (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:41:02 +0200
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:31:21 +0200, Markus Widmer <markus.widmer@******.at>
wrote:



> DidS2 is definitely OTT. I got the impression that the editors weren't
> sure where to focus and decided to just do it all. I bought it for
> reference, but I'm not inclined to read it through. It is just too much.

Well, they left the unimportant places out of the book (Bavaria, the elven
kingdom)
and such. But it is very well done. There is next to no repetiotion. That
comes from
the heterogenity of the ADL: From the Toxic waves close to Hamburg, via the
Catholic "Bistum Westpfahlen" and the Rhein-Ruhr-Metroplex (L.A. and Frisco
are
small cmpared to that plex), to teh more rural areas of Germany, there is a
lot of stuff.

And putting it into one book reduces the overall cost.

> I'm looking forward to SoE, most of all because I am Swiss and I have
> never had the chance to read anything about Switzerland in SR (I missed
> "Chrom & Dioxin").

Yeah, I hope there is enough stuff. I just hope it is enough to let my
players run
through Europe.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot
Message no. 18
From: cmd_jackryan@***.de (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:47:40 +0200
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 02:55:18 +0100 (BST), <flakjacket@***********.com>
wrote:


> IIRC, there was the first Germany sourcebook which was translated into
> English-and sold sod all AFAIK-then an updated version-v2.1 or something-

The V2.01 is a German "specialty". The "2" shows the edition, and the
0.1
shows
that is revised after the first publishing.

I.E.: SR3 core-rules in Germany: SR3.01

--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot
Message no. 19
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:01:24 +1000 (EST)
are the same writers from the FASA products still in
in the employ, continueing to write source material
for wizkids instead?

GZ

I miss the style of the old stuff, 'cause you never
really appreciate't 'till It's gone ;)

http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
Message no. 20
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:03:25 +0200
According to Zebulin Magby, on Wednesday 02 April 2003 03:27 the word on
the street was...

> There was a first one? Was it just the Germany Sourcebook or did I miss
> something somewhere?

FanPro originally published "Deutschland in den Schatten" (lit.: "Germany
in the Shadows") in 1992, which was translated into English as the
"Germany Sourcebook", though the latter left out the chapter about Berlin.
After that followed "Chrom & Dioxin" and "Waltzer, Punks &
schwarzes Ice"
which both give more source material on German-speaking countries. In
2001, FanPro did an updated version of this all in one book titled
"Deutschland in den Schatten 2".

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 21
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:15:42 +0200
According to Robert Ennew, on Wednesday 02 April 2003 08:01 the word on the
street was...

> are the same writers from the FASA products still in
> in the employ, continueing to write source material
> for wizkids instead?

I get the impression that FanPro "uses" many of the same freelancers FASA
did toward the end, if that's what you mean. Very few of the SR writers
from before that seem to still be around, though.

> I miss the style of the old stuff, 'cause you never
> really appreciate't 'till It's gone ;)

That's almost a song quote, but I can't remember which one ATM (probably
because it's definitely not "King & Queen of Siam" by Frank Black and the
Catholics, which I'm listening to right now... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Als Michael Jackson een auto was, had hij heel Halfords leeggekocht"
-- Ruud de Wild
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: cmd_jackryan@***.de (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 11:35:03 +0200
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 11:03:25 +0200, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> wrote:


> FanPro originally published "Deutschland in den Schatten" (lit.:
"Germany
> in the Shadows") in 1992, which was translated into English as the
> "Germany Sourcebook", though the latter left out the chapter about
> Berlin. After that followed "Chrom & Dioxin" and "Waltzer, Punks
&
> schwarzes Ice" which both give more source material on German-speaking
> countries. In 2001, FanPro did an updated version of this all in one book
> titled "Deutschland in den Schatten 2".

Although Swiss and Austria are left out, unfortunately. But that would be
out of range completely.

--
Phillip Gawlowski
GameMaster and GeneralIdiot
Message no. 23
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 04:36:11 -0500
At 11:15 AM 4/2/2003 +0200, you wrote:
> > are the same writers from the FASA products still in
> > in the employ, continueing to write source material
> > for wizkids instead?
>
>I get the impression that FanPro "uses" many of the same freelancers FASA
>did toward the end, if that's what you mean. Very few of the SR writers
>from before that seem to still be around, though.
First off, as Gurth notes, it's FanPro, not WizKids. Wizkids owns the
Shadowrun Property, FanPro currently has the license to produce Shadowrun
RPG products. About the extent of WizKids direct involvement seems to be
approval of the books, but even that seems to be formality, since Mike
Mulvihill handles the SR license for WizKids, and Mike's old assistant from
FASA, Rob Boyle, is the Linne Developer for FanPro.

Overall, there has been very little change from the crew that has worked on
Shadowrun since 3rd edition came out. Some people are working more as
freelancers for it than they used to, since FanPro, LLC (The US branch of
FanPro) is still just Rob Boyle as the only full time employee, but... On
the whole, most of the old freelancers are still around.

Bull
Message no. 24
From: justin@***********.net (Justin)
Subject: Germany in SoE [was: Re: out of print source books]
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:45:00 -0500
Gurth said the following on 4/2/2003 4:15 AM:

>>I miss the style of the old stuff, 'cause you never
>>really appreciate't 'till It's gone ;)
>
>
> That's almost a song quote, but I can't remember which one ATM (probably
> because it's definitely not "King & Queen of Siam" by Frank Black and
the
> Catholics, which I'm listening to right now... :)
>

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til it's
gone?

Further Reading

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