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Message no. 1
From: Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:27:39 +0300
leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu wrote:
>
> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>
> > > Make him pay for it :-)
> > > It's your duty as a Game Master :-)
> >
> > Oh definitely...I agree with Cybertroll here ... come up with some kind of
> > nasty revenge trick ... make it playable though, and everyone will have fun
> > with it.
>
> I've only been half-following this thread (ok, I stopped after the 3rd
> post), but 'revenge' caught my eye. Looking for an idea? If you can adopt
> a trick from D&D...
>
> Have an NPC use a spell that unbuckles/snaps/zips/does all his clothes.
> So, he goes from a very buff/pumped/armed guy to...well...naked on the
> street. Make sure it's really cold, too. Then apply a few penalties for
> movement. Untie his shoes, too.
>
> Make 'em suffer.
>
> -Jared Leisner


Hehehehe I just looooooooooove when we become nasty in a legal way in
the game :-)
When a player gets on my nerves I really like to find something nasty
and playable to do to him in order to get on him and make the others
laugh :-)
What's the most nasty thing u've done to your players?
I was so angry once with a player of mine in Dragonlance that the
Minotaurs captured him (we were playing in Taladas) and they put him and
jail and he was brutally raped by 3 very ugly and very huge minotaurs!
It took him 3-4 days (in real life) to come back from the shock.

Cybertroll

--

E-Mail : cybertroll@********.gr
ICQ# : 7483400 but u have to beg to get my authorization!! :-)))
Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~cybertroll - WOA98 Photos!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 2
From: Y T y..t@********.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:58:00 GMT+1
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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> -------Message d'origine-------
> De : Cybertroll <cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net>
> Date : 31/08/99 13:20:36
>
> leisnj48@****.cis.uwosh.edu wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
> >
> > > > Make him pay for it :-)
> > > > It's your duty as a Game Master :-)
> > >
> > > Oh definitely...I agree with Cybertroll here ... come
up with some kind of
> > > nasty revenge trick ... make it playable though, and
everyone will have fun
> > > with it.
> >
> > I've only been half-following this thread (ok, I
stopped after the 3rd
> > post), but 'revenge' caught my eye. Looking for an
idea? If you can adopt
> > a trick from D&D...
> >
> > Have an NPC use a spell that unbuckles/snaps/zips/does
all his clothes.
> > So, he goes from a very buff/pumped/armed guy
to...well...naked on the
> > street. Make sure it's really cold, too. Then apply a
few penalties for
> > movement. Untie his shoes, too.
> >
> > Make 'em suffer.
> >
> > -Jared Leisner
>
>
> Hehehehe I just looooooooooove when we become nasty in a
legal way in
> the game :-)
> When a player gets on my nerves I really like to find
something nasty
> and playable to do to him in order to get on him and make
the others
> laugh :-)
> What's the most nasty thing u've done to your players?
> I was so angry once with a player of mine in Dragonlance
that the
> Minotaurs captured him (we were playing in Taladas) and
they put him and
> jail and he was brutally raped by 3 very ugly and very
huge minotaurs!
> It took him 3-4 days (in real life) to come back from the
shock.
>
> Cybertroll
>
I am not really sure that It is the good way to masteries a
role-playing game to get revenge on your player in play…
Is it not better for all peoples to ask to the annoying
player to not com further play at all?
YT

YT
Be paranoid is the only way to be

______________________________________________________
Boîte aux lettres - Caramail - http://www.caramail.com


--=_NextPart_Caramail_017018936094107_ID--
Message no. 3
From: Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:08:04 +0300
Y T wrote:
> I am not really sure that It is the good way to masteries a
> role-playing game to get revenge on your player in play…
> Is it not better for all peoples to ask to the annoying
> player to not com further play at all?
> YT
>
> YT
> Be paranoid is the only way to be
>

A player doesn't need to be annoying all the time to get on ur nerves.
Since we are humans, sometimes we make mistakes and we annoy others.
This doesn't mean that we have to kick them out of the game. Besides, he
was a friend of mine :-).

Cybertroll


--

E-Mail : cybertroll@********.gr
ICQ# : 7483400 but u have to beg to get my authorization!! :-)))
Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~cybertroll - WOA98 Photos!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do u really want to talk to me?? Come to #tavern in Othernet!
U'll find the servers in http://www.othernet.org and in
http://tavern.home.pages.de/ (#tavern's homepage made by Soth)
Message no. 4
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:33:14 +700
>Hehehehe I just looooooooooove when we become nasty in a legal way in the game
:-)
>When a player gets on my nerves I really like to find something nasty
>and playable to do to him in order to get on him and make the others laugh
:-)
>What's the most nasty thing u've done to your players?
>I was so angry once with a player of mine in Dragonlance that the
>Minotaurs captured him (we were playing in Taladas) and they put him and
>jail and he was brutally raped by 3 very ugly and very huge minotaurs!
>It took him 3-4 days (in real life) to come back from the shock.

I consider it very poor GMing to take action against a character because of
a dispute with a player. It's a non forgivable breech of conduct. Likewise when
it's one player using their character to go after another player's character
because of a real life issue.

Resolve your real life issues out of game.

I also consider rape to be a taboo subject I will not use nor will I tolerate
a game that uses it 'on screen'. It's just very bad form and very poor taste
as it can tread way too close some people's real world issues.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 5
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:30:24 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Arcady wrote:

> I consider it very poor GMing to take action against a character because of
> a dispute with a player. It's a non forgivable breech of conduct. Likewise when
> it's one player using their character to go after another player's character
> because of a real life issue.
>
> Resolve your real life issues out of game.
>

I agree...

> I also consider rape to be a taboo subject I will not use nor will I tolerate
> a game that uses it 'on screen'. It's just very bad form and very poor taste
> as it can tread way too close some people's real world issues.
>

...but doesn't this just contradict the above statement?

Now, this is not the first time that I have seen people that are against
rape in a RP context, and while I understand the emotional traumatic
impact it may have on some people, Shadowrun is not a happy shining world.
Rape, murder, organlegging, slavery, it all happens and happens pretty
damn often.

If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should be
aware of that and accept what comes their way.

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 6
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:53:40 +700
>> I consider it very poor GMing to take action against a character because of

>> a dispute with a player. It's a non forgivable breech of conduct. Likewise
when
>> it's one player using their character to go after another player's character

>> because of a real life issue.
>>
>> Resolve your real life issues out of game.
>
>> I also consider rape to be a taboo subject I will not use nor will I tolerate

>> a game that uses it 'on screen'. It's just very bad form and very poor taste

>> as it can tread way too close some people's real world issues.
>
>....but doesn't this just contradict the above statement?

No. It's saying don't push past people's boundaries.

>Now, this is not the first time that I have seen people that are against
>rape in a RP context, and while I understand the emotional traumatic
>impact it may have on some people, Shadowrun is not a happy shining world.

>Rape, murder, organlegging, slavery, it all happens and happens pretty
>damn often.

But we don't need to get sick and depraved in our entertainment.

>If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should be

>aware of that and accept what comes their way.

No. Playing a game in a dark universe does not give the other people one plays
with the free license to abuse you emotionally.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 7
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:01:13 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Arcady wrote:

> >If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should be
> >aware of that and accept what comes their way.
>
> No. Playing a game in a dark universe does not give the other people one plays
> with the free license to abuse you emotionally.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If this is a problem
for your group, you're playing with the wrong people. There actually are
players out there mature enough to both a) handle some pretty dark subject
matter, and b) maintain the separation between the game and reality, both
in their own minds and in their interactions with others.
If you think you're being emotionally abused, for god's sake, find
a new group.

Marc
Message no. 8
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:06:56 -0400
Arcady wrote:

> >> I consider it very poor GMing to take action against a character because of
>
> >> a dispute with a player. It's a non forgivable breech of conduct. Likewise
> when
> >> it's one player using their character to go after another player's character
>
> >> because of a real life issue.
> >>
> >> Resolve your real life issues out of game.
> >
> >> I also consider rape to be a taboo subject I will not use nor will I
tolerate
>
> >> a game that uses it 'on screen'. It's just very bad form and very poor taste
>
> >> as it can tread way too close some people's real world issues.
> >
> >....but doesn't this just contradict the above statement?
>
> No. It's saying don't push past people's boundaries.
>
> >Now, this is not the first time that I have seen people that are against
> >rape in a RP context, and while I understand the emotional traumatic
> >impact it may have on some people, Shadowrun is not a happy shining world.
>
> >Rape, murder, organlegging, slavery, it all happens and happens pretty
> >damn often.
>
> But we don't need to get sick and depraved in our entertainment.
>
> >If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should be
>
> >aware of that and accept what comes their way.
>
> No. Playing a game in a dark universe does not give the other people one plays
> with the free license to abuse you emotionally.
>
> Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
> Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
> /.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
> \(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/

Didn't we just go through all this and decide to disagree? If I wanted to hear it
again, I could go read the archives...

Wildfire
Message no. 9
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:39:36 -0400
> > >If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should
be
> > >aware of that and accept what comes their way.
> >
> > No. Playing a game in a dark universe does not give the other people one
plays
> > with the free license to abuse you emotionally.
>
> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If this is a problem
> for your group, you're playing with the wrong people. There actually are
> players out there mature enough to both a) handle some pretty dark subject
> matter, and b) maintain the separation between the game and reality, both
> in their own minds and in their interactions with others.
> If you think you're being emotionally abused, for god's sake, find
> a new group.
>
> Marc
>
Thank you, Marc. You said it better than I have.
Message no. 10
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:57:02 +700
>> > >If people choose to play a dark cyberpunk world such as SR, they should
be
>> > >aware of that and accept what comes their way.
>> >
>> > No. Playing a game in a dark universe does not give the other people one
plays
>> > with the free license to abuse you emotionally.
>>
>> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If this is a problem
>> for your group, you're playing with the wrong people. There actually are


A game should never include these kinds of elements that are likely to cause
abuse or bring up flashbacks up past traumas or even simply be uncomfortable
or disturbing.

That sort of stuff has no place in social entertainment.

It has nothing to do with maturity. Generally it's the more mature crowds who
will find these subjects less and less tastefull and the adolescent or depraved
ones who find a need to be disturbing or disturbed or who find pleasure in such
depravity.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 11
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:05:55 +700
>>It has nothing to do with maturity. Generally it's the more mature crowds who

>>will find these subjects less and less tastefull and the adolescent or depraved

>>ones who find a need to be disturbing or disturbed or who find pleasure in
such
>>depravity.
>
>It's not about finding pleasure in depravity. It's about running a campaign
in a world that feels real. Does no one get mugged, raped, beaten, or killed
in your campaign? All of these are potential "danger zones" for some people,
but are necessary elements of the SR universe. If you don't wish to discuss
or deal with such issues, then you're playing the wrong game.

No. Just choosing not to game with depraved sickos.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 12
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:16:01 +700
>>It has nothing to do with maturity. Generally it's the more mature crowds who

>>will find these subjects less and less tastefull and the adolescent or depraved

>>ones who find a need to be disturbing or disturbed or who find pleasure in
such
>>depravity.
>
>It's not about finding pleasure in depravity. It's about running a campaign
in a world that feels real. Does no one get mugged, raped, beaten, or killed
in your campaign? All of these are potential "danger zones" for some people,
but are necessary elements of the SR universe. If you don't wish to discuss
or deal with such issues, then you're playing the wrong game.

Were are all the on camera or written in detail in the book rape scenes in:


Bladerunner.
Total Recall
BubbleGum Crisis
Ghost in the Shell

Islands in the Net
Neuromancer
Jonny Zed


The genre may be about a dark future, but that doesn't require depravity in
the least.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 13
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:10:14 +700
>>Were are all the on camera or written in detail in the book rape scenes in:

>
>>Bladerunner.
>>Total Recall
>>BubbleGum Crisis
>>Ghost in the Shell
>
>>Islands in the Net
>>Neuromancer
>>Jonny Zed
>
>>The genre may be about a dark future, but that doesn't require depravity in

>>the least.
>
>Exactly my point. Just because these issues are discussed/encountered in a
campaign doesn't mean the GM and the players are a bunch of depraved sickos.


The point is that rape and sexual depravity was not 'played out' in any of these
items. That you can have a dark future without including the roleplay of these
things. Sexual depravity isn't needed to give the genre a dark feel and in fact
has no place in entertainment.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 14
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:11:57 +700
>How about we all choose to agree with one or other of the following:
>
>"I choose not to roleplay distressing events for the sake of the mental
>tranquility of myself and the rest of my gaming group. I accept that this
>is not everyone's choice, and that other groups may find it appropriate to

>deal with these sorts of issues in their games, and that that does not
>necessarily make them depraved sadcases or immature thrillseekers."
>
>OR
>
>"I choose to roleplay more distressing events with my group in order to
>push our boundaries and to challenge ourselves. I accept that this is not
>everyone's cup of tea, and that it does not _have_ to be an integral part
>of the game."

Or perhaps:

"I choose not to roleplay depraved events as I do not find any entertaining

value in them or anything in them I would see as useful for a person to learn.
I
accept that this is not everyone's choice, and that other groups may find it

appropriate to deal with these sorts of issues in their games, and that that

does more than likely make them depraved sadcases or immature thrillseekers."


OR

"I choose to roleplay more distressing events with my group in order to
explore how cool it is to be dark and goth like and do things in a game I could
not
get away with in real life. I will do this to 'simulate reality' no matter what
the cost
to the enjoyment of the others I game with. And if they don't like it that's
just too bad
cause they're wimps and babies. So Nya nya nay."

I'd agree more to that. It's what I've always seen bear out in practice.

Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0){{{{><
Art: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/brianfw/brianfw.html
/.)\ Projects: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/1865/
\(@/ Homepage: http://www.jps.net/arcady/
Message no. 15
From: Kelson kelson13@*******.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:11:14 -0700
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:57:02 Arcady wrote:

>A game should never include these kinds of elements that are likely to cause
>abuse or bring up flashbacks up past traumas or even simply be uncomfortable
>or disturbing.

I disagree. Being disturbed by a gruesome activity can be enlightening and has its place
in SR. This isn't a game for little kids.

>That sort of stuff has no place in social entertainment.

Again, I disagree. Adult issues have their place in SR. This isn't a happy-go-lucky
universe where everyone skips around singing all day. People die during runs. People
feel betrayed by society, etc. Cyberpunk worlds are dark by nature. SR is no exception.

>It has nothing to do with maturity. Generally it's the more mature crowds who
>will find these subjects less and less tastefull and the adolescent or depraved
>ones who find a need to be disturbing or disturbed or who find pleasure in such
>depravity.

It's not about finding pleasure in depravity. It's about running a campaign in a world
that feels real. Does no one get mugged, raped, beaten, or killed in your campaign? All
of these are potential "danger zones" for some people, but are necessary
elements of the SR universe. If you don't wish to discuss or deal with such issues, then
you're playing the wrong game.

>Arcady

Justin


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Message no. 16
From: Kelson kelson13@*******.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:05:14 -0700
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:05:55 Arcady wrote:

Kelson wrote:

>>It's not about finding pleasure in depravity. It's about running a campaign
>in a world that feels real. Does no one get mugged, raped, beaten, or killed
>in your campaign? All of these are potential "danger zones" for some
people,
>but are necessary elements of the SR universe. If you don't wish to discuss
>or deal with such issues, then you're playing the wrong game.

>No. Just choosing not to game with depraved sickos.

Excuse me? Are you implying that because I deal with said topics that I am a depraved
sicko? I would advise against making such judgements about someone you've never met.

People get killed in SR. People get mugged and beaten. People get raped. People get
maimed. If you choose to ignore or glaze over these issues, that's your perrogative. But
don't imply that I am some sort of sicko because I deal with these issues head on
sometimes.

>Arcady

Justin


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Message no. 17
From: Kelson kelson13@*******.com
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:10:06 -0700
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:16:01 Arcady wrote:

>Were are all the on camera or written in detail in the book rape scenes in:

>Bladerunner.
>Total Recall
>BubbleGum Crisis
>Ghost in the Shell

>Islands in the Net
>Neuromancer
>Jonny Zed

>The genre may be about a dark future, but that doesn't require depravity in
>the least.

Exactly my point. Just because these issues are discussed/encountered in a campaign
doesn't mean the GM and the players are a bunch of depraved sickos.

>Arcady Resume: http://resumes.dice.com/arcady <0

Justin


--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Message no. 18
From: kawaii kawaii@********.org
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:29:20 -0400 (EDT)
On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Arcady wrote:

>
> The genre may be about a dark future, but that doesn't require depravity in
> the least.
>

But you can't deny that aspect of a dark future doesn't exist... All too
often, people bring their RL views into their characters, where the PCs
are not racist or give money to beggars all the time or some such. I
applaud such Politcally-Correctness, but when you are Sinless and
starving, and a yak middleman offers 2000 yen to rape the Don's daughter
who he has kidnapped, I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 sinless in shadowrun
(out of realism of course) will take that offer.

Ever lovable and always scrappy,
kawaii
Message no. 19
From: Paul Wynter seraph4plm@*********.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:49:38 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Arcady <arcady@***.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)


> >How about we all choose to agree with one or other of the following:
> >
> >"I choose not to roleplay distressing events for the sake of the mental
> >tranquility of myself and the rest of my gaming group. I accept that this
> >is not everyone's choice, and that other groups may find it appropriate to
>
> >deal with these sorts of issues in their games, and that that does not
> >necessarily make them depraved sadcases or immature thrillseekers."
> >
> >OR
> >
> >"I choose to roleplay more distressing events with my group in order to
> >push our boundaries and to challenge ourselves. I accept that this is not
> >everyone's cup of tea, and that it does not _have_ to be an integral part
> >of the game."
>
> Or perhaps:
>
> "I choose not to roleplay depraved events as I do not find any entertaining
>
> value in them or anything in them I would see as useful for a person to learn.
> I
> accept that this is not everyone's choice, and that other groups may find it
>
> appropriate to deal with these sorts of issues in their games, and that that
>
> does more than likely make them depraved sadcases or immature thrillseekers."
>
>
> OR
>
> "I choose to roleplay more distressing events with my group in order to
> explore how cool it is to be dark and goth like and do things in a game I could
> not
> get away with in real life. I will do this to 'simulate reality' no matter what
> the cost
> to the enjoyment of the others I game with. And if they don't like it that's
> just too bad
> cause they're wimps and babies. So Nya nya nay."
>
> I'd agree more to that. It's what I've always seen bear out in practice.
>

From what I am seeing in this thread you are turning this into something like:
"Everyone not doing things MY WAY is WRONG!"
Enough already, take a pill and relax. Everyone can play as they see fit, and if it works
for them then so what? Everyone has their own opinion, but it doesnt mean your right. So
what?!? Get over it.


__________________________________
"So foul a sky clears not without a storm"
seraph4plm@*********.net
http://myth.simplenet.com/sphere/
icq# 16280631
Message no. 20
From: Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:35:20 -0700
> OK, I've sat here and read everything said by both sides, as
> well as the
> attack on Lady Jestyr after she TRIED to solve the problem
> rationally. Now my

Not really. If you read her post again you'll see it was definitely made out
to favor the 'lets all fantasize about rape crowd'".

Which was why I reposted it with a reversed slant.

Arcady http://www.jps.net/arcady/ <0){{{{><
Resume http://resumes.dice.com/arcady
/.)\ Stop making sense. Be an Anti Intellectual
\(@/ Be Tao. Live Tao. Feel Tao. But don't do Tao.
Message no. 21
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:27:46 +0200
According to Arcady, at 10:33 on 31 Aug 99, the word on
the street was...

> I consider it very poor GMing to take action against a character because of
> a dispute with a player. It's a non forgivable breech of conduct. Likewise when
> it's one player using their character to go after another player's character
> because of a real life issue.

But it may not always be as open or obvious as that. It's very possible to
have a situation where two players don't like each other, and that carries
over to their characters -- no matter who their respective characters are,
they can't get along. This has happened in our group too many times :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
De plaag is terug...!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: James Dening james@************.force9.co.uk
Subject: Getting Nasty to Your Players (WAS: Re: The Friggin' Healing Spell)
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:42:39 +0100
>>Exactly my point. Just because these issues are discussed/encountered in a
>>campaign doesn't mean the GM and the players are a bunch of depraved sickos.


>The point is that rape and sexual depravity was not 'played out' in any of these
>items. That you can have a dark future without including the roleplay of these
>things. Sexual depravity isn't needed to give the genre a dark feel and in fact
>has no place in entertainment.

Says who? Not Hollywood, that's for damn sure as mustard. Arcady, I'd back off a bit -
you *are* saying that sexual depravity (I'll use your phrase for the sake of argument) is
a *bad* thing, and we're all sickos for dealing with it in our games - bit close to
personal
insults really... I mean, I thought Lady Jestyr had summed it up pretty damn well
(lick, fawn, cringe....) but
"I choose to roleplay more distressing events with my group in order to
explore how cool it is to be dark and goth like and do things in a game I could
not get away with in real life. I will do this to 'simulate reality' no matter what
the cost to the enjoyment of the others I game with. And if they don't like it that's
just too bad cause they're wimps and babies. So Nya nya nay."
pretty much sums up your inflexibility on this. Shame. End of conversation, really.

So <evil grin>, did you ever do Norsk mythos....

Bjorn Bjornsson: "...and tomorrow, we will invade the land of the Angles, to do some
really serious pillaging, and....nope, sorry, my memory, eh - just pillaging."
Lars Larssonsonson: "And rape, surely, Bjorn?"
BB: <looks round nervously> "No, just pillaging - rape's off for now, and
*don't* ask me why - because
I don't know. It's just a sort of....feeling."
Lars <kicks table petulantly> "Awwww....come on, Bjorn, it's *always* raping
and pillaging...."
BB: "Shut up...anyway, it's your turn with the throwing axes....HELGA! Stand still,
for Odin's sake..."

Seriously, rape etc. is a *bad* thing, as is lots of what goes on in the shadows, but if I
avoided
everything that made me feel uneasy or contravened my RL moral code, 'twould be a dull
game
indeed.

Me:"....ok, I'll roll my 'Choose Delicacy From Deli Counter' skill....Wow! Five
successes!"
GM:"Well done!! You've got the Pastrami!! <general applause....>

XX J.

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