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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Sat Feb 17 17:55:00 2001
hi all!

One of my characters is planning to retire, and to me he is screaming to be
a Johnson in my later campaigns. So I wondered how hard it is to get all
licenses and permits to install a security consultant company ( LLC, if it
matters) in UCAS jurisdictions. He owns a bulletproof SIN, but is not a
UCAS citizen, so preferably the company would rather belong to other
companies in europe/japan/elsewhere.
The company should have all permits needed for toys like automatic weapons,
explosives and mil-grade armor, if possible, and employees should also get
those rights, and permits for most cyberware.

What do you think, and what did I miss? :)

Arclight
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Sat Feb 17 20:35:00 2001
> hi all!
>
> One of my characters is planning to retire, and to
me he is screaming to be a Johnson in my later
campaigns. So I wondered how hard it is to get all
licenses and permits to install a security consultant
company ( LLC, if it matters) in UCAS jurisdictions.
He owns a bulletproof SIN, but is not a UCAS citizen,
so preferably the company would rather belong to other
companies in europe/japan/elsewhere. The company
should have all permits needed for toys like automatic
weapons, explosives and mil-grade armor, if possible,
and employees should also get those rights, and
permits for most cyberware.
>
> What do you think, and what did I miss? :)
> Arclight

I had something like this in a story, Arclight. The
character was a high end 'runner who had monstrous
turnover - mostly for his business dealings rather
than his shadow work (he had a good reason for still
working the shadows, though). Anyway, to cover
his...lack of legality when it came to officialdom,
he'd set up a security company that was based out of
the Caymans, or some other place that made it
difficult for people to trace ownership. He also had a
number of holding companies, all linked together and
all pretty much just fronts. They did the business
deals and made his money make more money (and it's
easy to make money when you know a particular business
is going to lose their HQ to a bomb blast within a few
days or so ;) ). That's the kind of setup you want,
but you'll have to be very careful not to get done for
insider trading, unless you're only going to use the
legitimate front for licenses and stuff. You'll also
have to be very careful not to get done if you intend
to use those milspec items in shadow jobs. :)

Thing is to my mind as soon as you start talking about
milspec cyber and gear, you're already into shady
territory. A security company wouldn't really need
stuff of that grade - so you'd probably need to be
greasing palms and not pissing people off right from
the start. I don't see why you COULDN'T do it, but
your best bet might be a setup where you have a bunch
of ordinary joe guards and a small amount of FRT
personnel, with the heavier gear. That'd be more
believable than having a security company where
everyone carries assault cannons, wears heavy milspec
armour and is virtually a cyberzombie. No one could
afford that kind of coverage, really, except the
megas, and they've got their own people for that.

Really, a lot of it depends on your intentions. Are
you just after the licenses so you can IMPORT the gear
and then sell it on, or would you be equipping and
backing your own runner teams?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Sat Feb 17 21:30:01 2001
Von Rand Ratinac :

<snip>

>he'd set up a security company that was based out of
>the Caymans, or some other place that made it
>difficult for people to trace ownership.

I would prefer a UCAS-based company, much easier when it gets to carrying
weapons and stuff around.

> He also had a
>number of holding companies, all linked together and
>all pretty much just fronts. They did the business
>deals and made his money make more money (and it's
>easy to make money when you know a particular business
>is going to lose their HQ to a bomb blast within a few
>days or so ;) ).

I hadn't though about that, but it sounds quite interesting anyway ;)

> That's the kind of setup you want,
>but you'll have to be very careful not to get done for
>insider trading, unless you're only going to use the
>legitimate front for licenses and stuff. You'll also
>have to be very careful not to get done if you intend
>to use those milspec items in shadow jobs. :)

The character already has a good amount of "black" equipment, and is
aquiring more from time to time. He is something like the quartermaster of
the team ATM. The fun part is that he could do some jobs in complete legality.

>Thing is to my mind as soon as you start talking about
>milspec cyber and gear, you're already into shady
>territory. A security company wouldn't really need
>stuff of that grade - so you'd probably need to be
>greasing palms and not pissing people off right from
>the start. I don't see why you COULDN'T do it, but
>your best bet might be a setup where you have a bunch
>of ordinary joe guards and a small amount of FRT
>personnel, with the heavier gear. That'd be more
>believable than having a security company where
>everyone carries assault cannons, wears heavy milspec
>armour and is virtually a cyberzombie. No one could
>afford that kind of coverage, really, except the
>megas, and they've got their own people for that.

I was thinking about assault rifles and maybe a medium machine gun and
sniper rifles. Plus electronics, and armor. Also, it would be a small
company, only a handful of people and some freelancers he knows.

>Really, a lot of it depends on your intentions. Are
>you just after the licenses so you can IMPORT the gear
>and then sell it on, or would you be equipping and
>backing your own runner teams?

Most important would be equipping the own team and leasing stuff to
freelancers for legal missions. No reselling.

Many thanks for your reply :)

Arclight
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Sat Feb 17 22:05:00 2001
> >he'd set up a security company that was based out
of the Caymans, or some other place that made it
difficult for people to trace ownership.
>
> I would prefer a UCAS-based company, much easier
when it gets to carrying weapons and stuff around.

Ah, but that's where what I talked about next comes
into it. Saying a company is 'based' in the Caymans
doesn't mean it operates out of there. It's just
officially registered there, and you can have a UCAS
office which is what you're really concerned with. Or
you could go the holding company route. Set up the sec
corp in the UCAS, but set it up so that it's owned by
an international company, which just so happens to be
based in the Caymans (or someplace like that) and
which just so happens to be owned by another off-shore
holding company, which is also owned by another
holding company, which, when you follow the trail to
the end, is owned by you. At least one or two, if not
all of the corps, should be private companies (which
means you don't have to disclose ownership to anyone),
rather than public ones, with shareholders and
everything.

<snipt!(TM)>
> I was thinking about assault rifles and maybe a
medium machine gun and sniper rifles. Plus
electronics, and armor. Also, it would be a small
company, only a handful of people and some freelancers
he knows.

See, this is what I'm talking about. You probably
shouldn't be setting up shadowrunners as a security
company, which is really a front for illegal ops. For
one thing, people would get suspicious fast. For
another, money in security is in quantity, not
quality. The more sites you provide security for, even
with ordinary joe schlubs, the more money you make.
Not a lot of corps could afford to hire a small number
of highly-skilled "security specialists". And without
legitimate jobs, it gets REALLY suspicious. Your
safest bet is what I was talking about before - with a
bunch of real, live (and probably cheap) sec guards
who know nothing about what's really going on, and a
small core of highly skilled guys...

<snipt!(TM)>
> Most important would be equipping the own team and
leasing stuff to freelancers for legal missions. No
reselling.
> Arclight

Then you need a cover. Importing weapons and getting
rid of identifying marks before selling them on is one
thing - you can hide that without TOO much trouble. On
the other hand, having people who can be linked to
you, carrying weapons that can be linked to you, doing
illegal things...that requires a lot of precautions.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bruce)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Mon Feb 19 04:25:01 2001
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> <snippage>
>
> <snipt!(TM)>
> > I was thinking about assault rifles and maybe a
> medium machine gun and sniper rifles. Plus
> electronics, and armor. Also, it would be a small
> company, only a handful of people and some freelancers
> he knows.
>
> See, this is what I'm talking about. You probably
> shouldn't be setting up shadowrunners as a security
> company, which is really a front for illegal ops. For
> one thing, people would get suspicious fast. For
> another, money in security is in quantity, not
> quality. The more sites you provide security for, even
> with ordinary joe schlubs, the more money you make.
> Not a lot of corps could afford to hire a small number
> of highly-skilled "security specialists". And without
> legitimate jobs, it gets REALLY suspicious. Your
> safest bet is what I was talking about before - with a
> bunch of real, live (and probably cheap) sec guards
> who know nothing about what's really going on, and a
> small core of highly skilled guys...

Another option you may want to explore is setting the company up as a Security
Consultancy and taking on trouble shooting and investigations jobs. Many of these are on
the border of Shadowruns anyway and many of your Shadow tactics can be used to fulfil
these objectives.

Just a thought

B
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Getting Permits
Date: Mon Feb 19 05:00:01 2001
> See, this is what I'm talking about. You probably
> shouldn't be setting up shadowrunners as a security
> company, which is really a front for illegal ops.

I agree. Having a 'security company' is NOT the place for a Johnson. Such a
place would be good for a weapons dealer, perhaps, but not a Johnson -- or at
least, not someone who provides COVERS for shadowrunners. Doing so is a
one-way ticket to the Iron Bar Hotel.

> For one thing, people would get suspicious fast. For
> another, money in security is in quantity, not
> quality. The more sites you provide security for, even
> with ordinary joe schlubs, the more money you make.

'Unfortunately' true. In general, in both the real world and the SR one,
most of the money is in selling a million widgets at 1$ a piece instead of
selling 2 at $500,000.

> Not a lot of corps could afford to hire a small number
> of highly-skilled "security specialists". And without
> legitimate jobs, it gets REALLY suspicious. Your
> safest bet is what I was talking about before - with a
> bunch of real, live (and probably cheap) sec guards
> who know nothing about what's really going on, and a
> small core of highly skilled guys...

Again, Doc has very good points. You -could-, however, have built an
'anti-shadowrunning security team' -- in other words, that sort of group that
gets hired by that 'B' or 'C' rated megacorp, or even by a Johnson from one
of the A-variants who doesn't want word to percolate -totally- through the
corporate structure, in order to either hit a 'team about to make a run, be
additional or primary 'front-line' nasties to take out the 'team, or else to
recover the 'team after the run. Shadow assets? No, not exactly, but close.
Twenty or thirty men, the equivalent of a SEAL platoon or some such,
military tactics, etc. etc. etc. The contracts are 'very short-term', set
for a specific amount, with specific tasks/goals... best to have a drek-hot
corporate lawyer with about fifty ready-to-sign contract variants on his
laptop on permanent call.

> <snipt!(TM)>
> > Most important would be equipping the own team and
> leasing stuff to freelancers for legal missions. No
> reselling.
> > Arclight
>
> Then you need a cover. Importing weapons and getting
> rid of identifying marks before selling them on is one
> thing - you can hide that without TOO much trouble. On
> the other hand, having people who can be linked to
> you, carrying weapons that can be linked to you, doing
> illegal things...that requires a lot of precautions.

I do wonder if this 'High-Roller PC' is meant to be a PC or an NPC in your
later campaigns. If he's a PC, then it's going to take many millions
(72,857,088 nuyen, actually, by my program's figuring, and a touch over three
years worth of time for a firm of a decent size -- on the corp ratings, put
at a 10...) for him to create his corporation within any particular nation.
If he's a PC, he's going to have to go leaping through a hell of a lot of
loops, travel down many miles of red-tape road, put up with the stiffarming
of already-in-the-business security organizations (do you really want to know
what kind of 'discouragement' Wolverine Security can dish out?), and -- most
importantly -- make a name and -get-clients-. They aren't just going to fall
into his lap.

If he's an NPC, well, take the character out of the loop for a while, then
let him show up as a Johnson in a pin-striped bulletproof suit with
half-a-dozen AR-toting military goons around him, like you always see in the
comics. ;)

And no, you can't have my program, although it's a really nice one....
*smirks* Personal false SINs, complete with 'level' of SIN, corp (or agency)
you work for, job duties there, security rating, and adding on whether or not
the 'ware you may be packing -- cyber, weapons, matrixware or magical shit,
and additionally whether or not you have a license to hunt bounties (hey, one
of my PCs wanted it, so I had to come up with the rule for it...) ... The
corporate 'front' accounts for its level, the controlled substances it's
permitted to deal with, weapons, magic, the rating of its matrixware, weapons
and accessories, bodyware, and other ... extraneous equipment.

Heh. Never thought these programs would actually come in useful. I wrote
them, gods, gotta be three or four years ago... and hey, most of them even
kept up with the SOTA roll!! ;) Though I should redo my corporate ones...


The Wyrm Ouroboros
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Arclight)
Subject: Getting permits
Date: Mon Feb 19 13:15:01 2001
Von Bruce :

<snip>

>Another option you may want to explore is setting the company up as a Security
>Consultancy and taking on trouble shooting and investigations jobs. Many
>of these are on
>the border of Shadowruns anyway and many of your Shadow tactics can be
>used to fulfil
>these objectives.

This is mainly what I meant :)

Arclight

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