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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:12:10 -0600
It occurs me, rules-lawyer that I occasionally am, that being blind
doesn't mean jack to a ghoul. Why? First off, you have the fact that
they're dual-natured, which means they always have vision in astral space,
all the time. No big deal, mages can do that if they're blinded.
However, because they're dual-natured, they don't suffer the normal +2 TN
penalty to all purely physical actions attempted while astrally
perceiving, so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a sniper
rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.

Makes Cabrini Green seem like a less inviting place to go, eh?

--
Rev. Mark Hall
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
We are obligated, therefore, to spread the news, painful and bitter though
it may be for some to hear, that all living things on earth are kindred.
-Edward Abbey, _Desert Solitude_
Message no. 2
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:22:15 -0500
>It occurs me, rules-lawyer that I occasionally am, that being blind
>doesn't mean jack to a ghoul. Why? First off, you have the fact that
>they're dual-natured, which means they always have vision in astral space,
>all the time. No big deal, mages can do that if they're blinded.
>However, because they're dual-natured, they don't suffer the normal +2 TN
>penalty to all purely physical actions attempted while astrally
>perceiving, so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a sniper
>rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.

Hmm ... not sure about this one.
I seem to recall a reference to the fact that dual natured critters are
always bound to their material bodies. As such they are also limited by any
weaknesses of that body.

Ie. just because an astral form can pass through a brick wall, doesn't mean
a dual natured critter can pass through a wall.

IIRC the deal is that IF you are blinded through damage to your eyes, you
can still see astrally because your astral aura has not been changed,
therefore you still have eyes in astral space.
However, if you are born blind, or are made blind magically/genetically like
a ghoul, then your aura also is blind.

I can't give you chapter or verse on this, although I seem to recall it in
Target:UCAS ,,,

Any help out there?

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"YOU DO _NOT_ HAVE A KING JAMES VERSION OF THE NECRONOMICON!"
Message no. 3
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:19:55 -0500
Quoting Nexx (nexx@********.NET):
> It occurs me, rules-lawyer that I occasionally am, that being blind
> doesn't mean jack to a ghoul. Why? First off, you have the fact that
> they're dual-natured, which means they always have vision in astral space,
> all the time. No big deal, mages can do that if they're blinded.
> However, because they're dual-natured, they don't suffer the normal +2 TN
> penalty to all purely physical actions attempted while astrally
> perceiving, so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a sniper
> rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.

I don't think so, and here's why :)

First, you may or may not have 500m of visibility in astral -
there's probably just as much (but different) crud to get in the way. It's
probably also hard to tell auras apart at that distance - picking a target
out of a crowd, or even just against a field of other auras (like vegatation)
could be tricky. Of course, you'd have similar problems with regular vision
(picking a target out against a background with low contrast), but with
regular vision, you could use a scope. No scopes in astral space, to the
best of my knowledge :)

--Sean
--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 4
From: Jonathan P Martin <devotelyapathetic@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:49:51 -0500
On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:12:10 -0600 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>It occurs me, rules-lawyer that I occasionally am, that being blind
>doesn't mean jack to a ghoul. Why? First off, you have the fact that
>they're dual-natured, which means they always have vision in astral
>space,
>all the time. No big deal, mages can do that if they're blinded.
>However, because they're dual-natured, they don't suffer the normal +2
>TN
>penalty to all purely physical actions attempted while astrally
>perceiving, so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a
>sniper
>rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.
>
>Makes Cabrini Green seem like a less inviting place to go, eh?

I'd point out one major consideration: They can't read anything that
isn't hand written. Maybe some emotionally charged printouts but then
just maybe. This is a major hassle for anybody since it isn't just words
they can't read but most mechanical reproduced pictures and so on. IIRC
they get intentions and such but not really specifics.

So maybe they'll have no trouble in combat but getting to that combat
could be a problem. How to buy a gun when you can't really read the
display of how much nuyen it costs or even how much you have? A whole
world of inconvienance waits the creative GM...

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Message no. 5
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:31:36 -0800
> It occurs me, rules-lawyer that I occasionally am,
> that being blind doesn't mean jack to a ghoul. Why?
> First off, you have the fact that they're dual-
> natured, which means they always have vision in
> astral space, all the time.

One other thing I thought of...
From what I read about background count, it seems
that it affects any astral tests. I'd include vision
(astral perception) in that, and I'd think that would
be a pain for dual-natured beings (or anyone browsing
the A-plane). I picture it as sort of an astral fog.
So a background count of one would fuzzify things a
teeny bit, and a heavy count would be like a pea-soup
fog.
Thoughts?

Scott
==

"If you can't win, don't join them;
learn how to lose."
-Walt Kelly

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Message no. 6
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:05:54 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: 01 December 1998 02:24
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness


> One other thing I thought of...
> From what I read about background count, it seems
>that it affects any astral tests. I'd include vision
>(astral perception) in that, and I'd think that would
>be a pain for dual-natured beings (or anyone browsing
>the A-plane). I picture it as sort of an astral fog.
>So a background count of one would fuzzify things a
>teeny bit, and a heavy count would be like a pea-soup
>fog.
> Thoughts?


I'd agree with adding background count straight to perception tests in
the Astral.
As to how it really looks, I would'nt go with anything as mundane as
fog.
Perhaps the assenser(right word?) is troubled by strong emotions
concerning
the origins of the count and thus troubled cannot tell things apart as
easily.

Just an idea, am still thinking of how to explain myself more clearly

-- BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>
*Executive Engineer* *FrontLine Games*
Eva's Gyro
Message no. 7
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:57:10 -0600
<snip portions of tale about astral activity for ghouls>

>...so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a sniper
>rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.
>
>Makes Cabrini Green seem like a less inviting place to go, eh?

You're sick, Mark. Sick, sick, sick!!

Mind if I steal this idea? <EGMG>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ghouls and Blindness
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:03:08 -0600
----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
>
> <snip portions of tale about astral activity for ghouls>
>
> >...so you can have a ghoul with no eyes whatsoever and a sniper
> >rifle picking off people from 500m without a stray bullet.
> >
> >Makes Cabrini Green seem like a less inviting place to go, eh?
>
> You're sick, Mark. Sick, sick, sick!!
>
> Mind if I steal this idea? <EGMG>

Not in the least <g>

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