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Message no. 1
From: Adrien HOOCK a_hoock@*************.fr
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:00:42 +0200
Can you see through glass in astral space ?
If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?
Message no. 2
From: DV8 dv8@***.nl
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:06:59 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrien HOOCK" <a_hoock@*************.fr>
> Can you see through glass in astral space ?
> If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?

Nope,...glass is opague in astral space.

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 3
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:35:38 -0500
On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:00:42 +0200 "Adrien HOOCK"
<a_hoock@*************.fr> writes:
> Can you see through glass in astral space ?

Yes.

> If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?

They work as in the physical plane. Their intended function is carried
over.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 4
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:18:29 GMT
>From: "Adrien HOOCK" <a_hoock@*************.fr>
>Can you see through glass in astral space ?
>If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?

Nope, but you can pass through it.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 5
From: DV8 dv8@***.nl
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:10 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alfredo B Alves" <dghost@****.com>
> > Can you see through glass in astral space ?
>
> Yes.

I'm pretty sure that in SR3 it says that glass is opague in Astral Space. I
can be wrong,...I have been wrong before. I don't have my SR3 handy
now,...maybe someone can verify?

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 6
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:21:28 -0400
On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:00:42 +0200 "Adrien HOOCK"
<a_hoock@*************.fr> writes:
> Can you see through glass in astral space ?
> If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?

http://shadowfaq.dumpshock.com/Shad2FAQ.html#M13
Message no. 7
From: DV8 dv8@***.nl
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:32:55 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wordman" <wordman@*******.com>
> > Can you see through glass in astral space ?
> > If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?
>
> http://shadowfaq.dumpshock.com/Shad2FAQ.html#M13

The link above is a faq for SR2, where it says that anything transparent in
real space is also transparent in astral space. Maybe that changed in SR3
but until then I stand corrected. I guess glass isn't opague in Astral.

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood, and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 8
From: Zebulin L. Magby zebulingod@*****.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:40:13 -0700
"Alfredo B Alves" <dghost@****.com> wrote:
>
> <a_hoock@*************.fr> writes:
> > Can you see through glass in astral space ?
>
> Yes.
>

Actually, we've always played that you cannot see throught it. I think it is
mentioned in a rulebook somewhere, but for the life of me cannot remember
specifically.

> > If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?
>
> They work as in the physical plane. Their intended function is carried
> over.
>

Again, see above.

-Zebulin-Magby-
ICQ: 21932827
SRGC: SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ !B UB IE+
RN+ STK++ W- dk+ ri++ m-(d++) gm++ M- P++

"The splendor of the Universe pales in comparison to that of a fine woman."
-Me '2K
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GU d- s+:+>: a22 C++++ UL-- P L+(--) E? W+++ N++ o? K- w+ O---- M-(--) V?
!PS PE Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv b+++>$ DI++++ D++ G+ e* h--- r+++ z+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


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Message no. 9
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:27:12 -0700
From: "Zebulin L. Magby" <zebulingod@*****.com>

> Actually, we've always played that you cannot see throught it. I think it
is
> mentioned in a rulebook somewhere, but for the life of me cannot remember
> specifically.

I think people are misremembering some text on p. 171, SR3 under 'The Astral
Plane' where it states:
"The interface between the two planes can be thought of as a pane of one-way
glass with the physical world on the opaque (mirrored) side."

> > > If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?
> >
> > They work as in the physical plane. Their intended function is carried
> > over.
> Again, see above.

Nothing in SR3 points to glass being special in any way. In fact judging
from the statement on p.173 that you have normal sense of sight and hearing
I would rush to the assumption that with a few minor oddities interaction on
the astral is VERY similar to that on the physical plane.

As supporting evidence I point to p. 82, MITS under "Astral Visibility" that
mentions no such modification.

Ken
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:49:00 +0200
According to Adrien HOOCK, at 21:00 on 18 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> Can you see through glass in astral space ?

Yes. I couldn't find it in SR3when quickly browsing through the astral
space section (one of the disadvantages of upgrading to a new edition of a
game...), but it was mentioned in earlier editions that glass is
transparent on the astral plane.

> If yes, what about polarized glass and one way mirrors ?

These both work as on the physical plane, IMO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Can we scratch beneath this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Iridios iridios@********.net
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:21:38 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> According to Adrien HOOCK, at 21:00 on 18 Jul 00, the word on the street
> was...
>
> > Can you see through glass in astral space ?
>
> Yes. I couldn't find it in SR3when quickly browsing through the astral
> space section (one of the disadvantages of upgrading to a new edition of a
> game...), but it was mentioned in earlier editions that glass is
> transparent on the astral plane.

SR3 does mention (pg. 173 "Astral Senses"), "Your astral form has
*normal* human senses of sight and hearing." The emphasis on normal is
added. I interpet this to mean that an astral projectors sight works
exactly the same as when he is not projecting.

The only question is, does this include thermographic and low-light
visions? What about the cybernetic versions?


--
Iridios
--
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Visit "The ShadowZone"
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7:13:36 AM/60:00:03 (1) [no thud]
Message no. 12
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:12:49 +0200
According to Iridios, at 7:21 on 19 Jul 00, the word on the street was...

> SR3 does mention (pg. 173 "Astral Senses"), "Your astral form has
> *normal* human senses of sight and hearing." The emphasis on normal is
> added. I interpet this to mean that an astral projectors sight works
> exactly the same as when he is not projecting.

The trouble is that it's reading between the lines when someone is looking
for a definitive answer :)

> The only question is, does this include thermographic and low-light
> visions? What about the cybernetic versions?

I'd say those don't work, because you're not actually seeing things on the
astral plane. You're using a sixth sense that is best described to non-
magicians as "seeing" with a bit of smell and sound thrown in for good
measure.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Can we scratch beneath this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: Joshua Mumme grimlakin@*****.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:41:16 -0700 (PDT)
--- Adrien HOOCK <a_hoock@*************.fr> wrote:
> Can you see through glass in astral space ?
> If yes, what about polarized glass and one way
> mirrors ?

I don't know if this is Cannon or not but the GM in my
games says NOPE.


Grimlakin

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Message no. 14
From: Tzeentch tzeentch666@*********.net
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:03:31 -0700
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>

> > The only question is, does this include thermographic and low-light
> > visions? What about the cybernetic versions?
>
> I'd say those don't work, because you're not actually seeing things on the
> astral plane. You're using a sixth sense that is best described to non-
> magicians as "seeing" with a bit of smell and sound thrown in for good
> measure.

I'd have to agree with this - even though you pay Essence for them does not
mean that astral space necessarily has those spectrums visible. Being able
to see in the IR or UV spectrum seems of dubious logic IMHO.

Ken
Message no. 15
From: TalonMail@***.com TalonMail@***.com
Subject: Glass and astral space
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:29:13 EDT
FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, etc...

1. Astrally projecting characters have the "normal human senses of sight and
hearing". That means, unless it says otherwise, things on the astral look and
sound like things in the physical world.

2. Astral characters do not have abilities like thermographic/low-light
vision, high/low frequency hearing, etc (natural or cyber). Those are left
behind with the physical body. As has been pointed out, assensing is really a
"sixth sense" and its impressions are psychic; translating them into things
like sight are simply approximations.

3. If it's transparent in the physical world, it's transparent on the astral
plane. You can see through ordinary glass just fine on the astral; tinted or
mirrored glass imposes the normal penalties. The only exception to this are
astral barriers like wards, which are invisible in the physical world, but
impose a vision penalty in the astral.

Hope that helps,

Steve Kenson

Talon Studio
http://members.aol.com/talonmail

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