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Message no. 1
From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Subject: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:27:43 GMT
Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
any of the wepaons in SRII?
Message no. 2
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:32:01 BST
It's just you chummer, what is it 18 armour?
hit it with an AVM (or preferrably a few), use the staging up
rules, and ther fact that it's armour piercing, and a good host
should take it down.

OTOH, Most of the time, your players should run in fear from
these things, not try to put them down. They'remeant to be the
equivalent of _flying_ light tanks after all.

Phil (Renegade; who recommends getting inside with subterfuge and
greasing the driver !)
Message no. 3
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 07:57:00 -0500
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, A.P. O'KEEFE wrote:

> Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
> any of the wepaons in SRII?
>
Yeah, that armor of 18 makes it a hard nut to crack. Just think, this
monstrosity is a LIGHT tank! *evil grin as GM contemplates the thought of
a heavy tank*
Even bursted weapons won't penetrate unless their base power is >18, due
to the Hardened nature of the Banshee's armor.
In fact, the only weapon I can think of off the top of my head that
offers even the barest glimmer of hope for knocking out a Banshee in one
shot is the Grand Dragon ATGM out of Feilds of Fire. Its base damage is 20D!
(ouch) Its max range is around 5km (if I remember correctly), and the
bastard might even have full fire-and-forget capability. Wouldn't
surprise me, because the US Army is currently equipping its units with a
FAF anti-tank weapon.

Peace.
__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 4
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:43:45 -0700
AP O'KEEFE writes:

>Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
>any of the wepaons in SRII?

I wish! Not easy to take her down in *one shot*, maybe, but the way
we've played it is every hit that does damage also starts to wear
away the armor and also screws up the speed and handling. I've seen
a Banshee get fragged by: 1. A fire elemental 2. Smacking into a
Barrier spell 3. A rail-gun 4.Various nasty rockets and missiles
Sure, you aren't going to take down a T-bird with a
Predator-2, but then, you shouldn't be able to, neh?
'Course our GM was/is a Physics/engineering genius and cool tech
nut, so we got fragged by all the latest technology. :)




"What color is it?"
"It doesn't really have color, just mass, spin, and charge."
"Oh. Okay!"



-E
Message no. 5
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 20:04:19 BST
MCJackson wrote :-
> Even bursted weapons won't penetrate unless their base power is >18,
> due to the Hardened nature of the Banshee's armor.

Hey chummer, they won;t penetrate, but those first few hits witha weapon
of base power > 1/2 armour will reduce the armours defensive capability,
so if you really wanna do it without carrying round a V-LAW (remember
car-wars anyone?), catch them on the ground, and put LOTS of ammo into
one side.

Oh yeah, does anyone find the idea of a VLAW (can't remember which one)
with a concealability of 4 a little ahrd to swallow? I assume they meant
that the rocket has a cnc of four, not the tube.

Phil (Renegade; game-peace through superior data)
Message no. 6
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 20:06:53 BST
> Sure, you aren't going to take down a T-bird with a
> Predator-2, but then, you shouldn't be able to, neh?

On the other hand, if you're a good shot, you can pop off wasps and
yellowjackets to your hearts content :-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 7
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 20:13:13 GMT
P Ward wrote

> It's just you chummer, what is it 18 armour?
> hit it with an AVM (or preferrably a few), use the staging up
> rules, and ther fact that it's armour piercing, and a good host
> should take it down.
>
basically you need APDS and a very heavy weapon, straffing rockets or
APDS missiles. i.e. you need antitank rated kit.

> OTOH, Most of the time, your players should run in fear from
> these things, not try to put them down. They'remeant to be the
> equivalent of _flying_ light tanks after all.
>
Thats why the railgun got put on the banshee, on the policy the
players were going to run (but slow enough not to attract attention)
regardless, hence it sounded good and did not need to get used.

> Phil (Renegade; who recommends getting inside with subterfuge and
> greasing the driver !)
>
Unless you want to create enough noise to start a lonestar (assuming
you are lucky and they are the local cops not KE) convention
about the only alternative to disapearing FAST!.

Mark
Message no. 8
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 16:09:59 -0400
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, A.P. O'KEEFE wrote:

> Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
> any of the wepaons in SRII?

Not to be snide, or anything, but what the hell do you expect?
Why don't you take any of the weapons that you have lying around the
house, go out and shoot at a light tank sometime and tell us how far
you get. Something that people often seem to forget is that a Banshee,
however light it is, is still *military* hardware.
Besides, most of the weapons in Shadowrun are small arms, which
generally do next to nothing against armored vehicles anyway.

Marc
Message no. 9
From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 21:46:24 GMT
> > Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
> > any of the wepaons in SRII?
Marc wrote:
> Not to be snide, or anything, but what the hell do you expect?
> Why don't you take any of the weapons that you have lying around the
> house, go out and shoot at a light tank sometime and tell us how far
> you get. Something that people often seem to forget is that a Banshee,
> however light it is, is still *military* hardware.
> Besides, most of the weapons in Shadowrun are small arms, which
> generally do next to nothing against armored vehicles anyway.

I was refering to the military grade weapons (missiles, autocannons
ect.) from the Rigger book, not small arms.
Message no. 10
From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 22:01:48 GMT
P Ward wrote:
> MCJackson wrote :-
> > Even bursted weapons won't penetrate unless their base power is >18,
> > due to the Hardened nature of the Banshee's armor.
>
> Hey chummer, they won;t penetrate, but those first few hits witha weapon
> of base power > 1/2 armour will reduce the armours defensive capability,
> so if you really wanna do it without carrying round a V-LAW (remember
> car-wars anyone?), catch them on the ground, and put LOTS of ammo into
> one side.
The point I've been trying to make (perhaps unclearly) is that even
mil-spec weapons have trouble with the Banshee's armour. The problem
is not so much that the Banshee can't be destroyed (it can given
enough firepower) but that a) the firepower needed is expensive
(check out the cost of decent mounted AAMs) and b) a single banshee
can chew 3 or 4 of anything else into dogfood in no time at all.
Message no. 11
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 17:04:02 -0400
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, A.P. O'KEEFE wrote:

> I was refering to the military grade weapons (missiles, autocannons
> ect.) from the Rigger book, not small arms.

Even still. How many 20mm machinegun rounds does it take to blow
up even your standard APC? Quite a few. And LAWs etc. will often damage
vehicles, but it takes quite a bit to actually destroy a military armored
vehicle. And the weapons that are designed to do it are not the ones
that the players generally have access to (tank guns, artillery, etc.).
If you want serious vehicle killing potential, though, mortars are a good
place to start. :)

Marc
Message no. 12
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 17:09:09 -0400
On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, A.P. O'KEEFE wrote:

> The point I've been trying to make (perhaps unclearly) is that even
> mil-spec weapons have trouble with the Banshee's armour. The problem
> is not so much that the Banshee can't be destroyed (it can given
> enough firepower) but that a) the firepower needed is expensive
> (check out the cost of decent mounted AAMs) and b) a single banshee
> can chew 3 or 4 of anything else into dogfood in no time at all.

Part of that stems from the fact that FASA has (probably rightly
so) capped the things they describe at approximately Banshee level. If
they had actually published stats for the CAS "Stonewall" Main Battle
Tank, I have virtually no doubt that it could chew numerous Banshees to
dogfood.
But FASA (never one to openly promote PC mortality) kept it up to
the discretion of the GM. The MBT is just arbitrarily bad, end of
story. No matter what the players get they're hands on, it can be
badder. Plus, by not giving it stats, they don't open things up to
munchkinous arms races between the players and the GM.

Marc
Message no. 13
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 14:25:32 -0700
A.P. O'KEEFE writes:

>>>The point I've been trying to make (perhaps unclearly) is that even
mil-spec weapons have trouble with the Banshee's armour. The problem
is not so much that the Banshee can't be destroyed (it can given
enough firepower) but that a) the firepower needed is expensive
(check out the cost of decent mounted AAMs) and b) a single banshee
can chew 3 or 4 of anything else into dogfood in no time at all.
<<<<<<

Well, um, that's kinda the point. It's a flying *tank*. It's a
*military* flying tank. It's supposed to be used by the military,
which is why only military weapons do much of anything against it.
Yes they are expensive to kill. They get crappy gas milage, too.
Sure they turn lesser craft into dogfood. That's what they were
designed to do. I agree with everything you've said, I just don't
see the problem with it; it's like saying, "Hey! Great Dragons
are really nasty! They're hard to kill, and really hard to damage!
Why is that?"
So I guess what we oughta ask is, why is this a problem? I
figger either A. You're a GM whose players have gotten hold of one,
and you can't figure out how to take them down or B. You're a player
who keeps running into these, and you are frustrated with trying to
kill them.
Solution to A is pretty simple. Banshees aren't legal to own
privately, so far as I know. Have the military, Lone Star, anyone else
with access to mil-spec stuff decide to introduce these joy-riders to
the Big Dirtnap. Check the fuel consuption on these puppies; you
can't fly very long before you have to hit a gas station, and the
enemy's gonna be waiting.
Solution B is less so. Going against a Banshee without some
equally spiffy vehicle around you is not too safe. Best advice is
to avoid, avoid, avoid. What kind of situation are you in where you're
running into Banshees anyway? If they're just cruisin' down the
streets of Seattle, maybe you oughta consider moving. Or wait til the
pilot comes out, and kill him. But no, don't stand there in the middle
of the street with a rocket launcher with one shot ("It's all I could
afford"), Rambo-style, and shoot it as it comes barreling down at you,
all weapons blazing.
Banshees are fast, too, and maneuverable. They can outrun
most things and make the ones that can catch up seriously regret doing so.
I wouldn't fight a Banshee in anything less than an FB Eagle or an EFA,
both loaded with Banshee-hurting weapons. Or another Banshee. Or a
Stonewall. (heh... )
You're welcome to send me private email on this subject, since
I doubt everyone on the list wants to hear all my old war-stories....

-E
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:57:15 +0200
>> Sure, you aren't going to take down a T-bird with a
>> Predator-2, but then, you shouldn't be able to, neh?
>
>On the other hand, if you're a good shot, you can pop off wasps and
>yellowjackets to your hearts content :-)

Unless your GM bought FoF and had all Wasps & Yellowjackets have that kit
fitted... Suddenly they are at least marginally effective :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Leave the making of mistakes to the government
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:57:17 +0200
>The point I've been trying to make (perhaps unclearly) is that even
>mil-spec weapons have trouble with the Banshee's armour. The problem
>is not so much that the Banshee can't be destroyed (it can given
>enough firepower) but that a) the firepower needed is expensive
>(check out the cost of decent mounted AAMs) and b) a single banshee
>can chew 3 or 4 of anything else into dogfood in no time at all.

That last bit is exactly the idea of modern missile systems: say your
missile costs a million bucks. Use it to blast a 100-million aircraft out of
the sky. The use the same launcher again to kill some more 100-million
dollar aircraft before your launcher is bombed. Wuite cost-effective, I
would say, considering that you could also do it by risking
100-million-dollar aircraft of your own.
But we were talking about ground-based weapon systems (well, ground/air
based -- the Banshee flies): I think I read somewhere (in a McDonnell
Douglas brochure, I think) that the expected kill ratio for AH-64 attack
helicopters is (was) in the order of 90:1 -- that is, you destroy around 90
enemy vehicles for every AH-64 you lose...
The Banshee should be virtually indestructible to PCs I think, unless they
_need_ to destroy one to do whatever you want them to do...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Leave the making of mistakes to the government
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 16
From: Martin Steffens <BDI05626@***.RHIJ.NL>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 12:35:26 +0100
Phil wrote:

> > Sure, you aren't going to take down a T-bird with a
> > Predator-2, but then, you shouldn't be able to, neh?
>
> On the other hand, if you're a good shot, you can pop off wasps and
> yellowjackets to your hearts content :-)

Not the upgraded ones from FOF as my poor players quickly found out.
("hey, whats that?" "looks like a yellowjacket" "Okay I draw my
Pred
and shoot it out of the sky, heh" "You shots hit and you hear 'ping,
ping' " "WHAT" "Oh yeah, did I tell you he has a HMG and is next?
<evil GM laugh entered here>"

*********************************************************************
Martin Steffens |"Don't touch me, or I'll wound your inner child
bdi05626@***.rhij.nl | ... and then I'll kick your ass" Beavis
GeekCode v2.1
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of) D++ B? e+$ (hah) u-(++) h f+ r n--- y+
*********************************************************************
Message no. 17
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:03:51 GMT
Gurth

>
> Unless your GM bought FoF and had all Wasps & Yellowjackets have that kit
> fitted... Suddenly they are at least marginally effective :)
>
yes especially when mounting miniguns, but the force 6 powerbolt
(from serious cover i may add) still gets them a real treat. Just
don't try that on the banshee, some GM's bound to have loaded an
initiate mage on board to shiel against just that solution. (note
that the stonewall and the like are paranaturally resistant anyway,
whatever the GM decides that equates to)

Mark
Message no. 18
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 01:59:07 GMT
> The point I've been trying to make (perhaps unclearly) is that even
> mil-spec weapons have trouble with the Banshee's armour. The problem
> is not so much that the Banshee can't be destroyed (it can given
> enough firepower) but that a) the firepower needed is expensive
> (check out the cost of decent mounted AAMs) and b) a single banshee
> can chew 3 or 4 of anything else into dogfood in no time at all.

Take your average troupe of Michigan Militia. Turn a M-2 Bradley loose
on them. The Bradley has reactive armour and thick plating: it can absorb
a few RPGs/LAWs and a lot of .50cal fire. Anything smaller just makes a
sad little clang.
Meanwhile it's chewing away with a 25mm Bushmaster cannon on you. This
is a typical mil-spec versus civilian scenario.

The hardware available to players in Shadowrun represents the sort of
gear you could get black-market today: third-hand, and not particularly
current. Fine for blowing away police cars, but not much use on military
vehicles. Looking at cost and weight, the military might issue one
Great Dragon per man (the way we give infantrymen a LAW80 each in a warzone)
as a backup: it's certainly a very small weapon by antitank standards.
MILAN weighs about 10kg per missile and 25kg (from memory) for the firing
post: stage the damage up accordingly.

There is hardware out there which will kill a Banshee with one shot. The
players will probably even know its names and what it looks like. They'd no
more get to use it than any of us will ever have a couple of TOWs and a
launcher tucked under our beds.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 19
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 02:31:47 GMT
> > Sure, you aren't going to take down a T-bird with a
> > Predator-2, but then, you shouldn't be able to, neh?
>
> On the other hand, if you're a good shot, you can pop off wasps and
> yellowjackets to your hearts content :-)

Tell me about it... :-) Four Yellowjackets coming in, swinging to the
side and beginning a search. Four pistol shots ring out and all four
plummet to the earth, several in flames.

"That was meant to be a dangerous attack force!" says the GM.
"Then why were they in Yellowjackets?" I ask.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 20
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:13:42 BST
Me :-
>On the other hand, if you're a good shot, you can pop off wasps and
>yellowjackets to your hearts content :-)

gurth :-
> ?Unless your GM bought FoF and had all Wasps & Yellowjackets have that kit
> fitted... Suddenly they are at least marginally effective :)

I am the GM ...damnit (hey, imagaine Stallone saying that ;-))

and I still watch the stupid little things fall to the ground when they
drop low enough to the ground to strafe PC targets with their drekky-range
Miniguns...

It's_so_ much safer to stay high, where they can't hit you and use Anti-
Personell (or even better, HE) missiles.

NB. Missiles are not much good in a law-enforcement situation ;-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 21
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:20:04 BST
Lynch :-
> Tell me about it... :-) Four Yellowjackets coming in, swinging to the
>side and beginning a search. Four pistol shots ring out and all four
>plummet to the earth, several in flames.

Yeah, I had that too: PC's went over the wall, and the Star sent Jackets
out to see where they went, and one PC put them down with a heavy pistol
(another reason I hate that 9M Damage code).

Mind you, I made their life hell for the rest of that adventure, and then
laughed evilly, when the same character tried it on with a T-Bird runner
with who'm he had negotiated a lift (!) before gunning down his favourite
Little Chef Franchise owner + her husband... I let him get the first
shots in, and then the main gun opened up, greasing said PC (Head-shot,
they called him, use APDS through someone's head, not a good idea as
far as I'm concerned, it tends not to fragment/frnge-thingy) and a
good chunk of the rest of the party ;-)


Good run that, some of the PC's were transporting the suspended bodies
of the rest of the PC's, sealed into plastic coffins, across three
borders, for reasons known only to Sherman Huang. I gave them a truck
and everything, and they turned a simple drive into a war, great run.

Funny how the best runs occur when the fertilizer hits the ventilator ;-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 22
From: Sebastian Vilstrup <vilstrup@*****.IHI.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 18:41:07 +0200
>From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
>Subject: GMC Banshees

>Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
>any of the wepaons in SRII?

Why don't you try the trusty old rotary assault cannon on a vehicle
hardpoint and four points of recoil reduction.

That should give some hefty damage codes:

#Rounds Target# Damage
3 0 21D+1
6 +2 24D+2
9 +5 27d+3

Then roll your 8 firearms, 8 combat pool and 7 (or less) sensors against
target numbers of 2, 4 or 7 (the banshee has 4 signature, right?). This
gives you something like 19, 11 or 3 successes (rounded down). this gives=

a total of:

#Rounds Target# Damage Modified damage
3 0 21D+1 21D+10
6 +2 24D+2 24D+7
9 +5 27d+3 27D+4

That's gotta hurt !! Also, remember that the assault cannon is
semi-armour piercing (which i interpret as half armour piercing). this
gives the standard Banshee a paltry 13 points of armour. BANG! one dead
banshee to go.

I've probably made some mistakes in the vehicle damage rules, as i
haven't got the book handy, but you get the idea. Flame me if you will, i=

have a ring of ¤#&# fire resistance on my finger.

- Sebastian
Message no. 23
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 13:04:21 -0500
On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, Sebastian Vilstrup wrote:

> >From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
> >Subject: GMC Banshees
>
> >Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
> >any of the wepaons in SRII?
[snip]
>
> Then roll your 8 firearms, 8 combat pool and 7 (or less) sensors against
^^^^^^^^
> target numbers of 2, 4 or 7 (the banshee has 4 signature, right?). This
> gives you something like 19, 11 or 3 successes (rounded down). this gives
> a total of:
[snip]
> - Sebastian
Uh, last I checked a vehicular rotary assault cannon was a Heavy weapon,
and a weapon that you didn't normally directly lay your hands on to
aim/fire. This leads me to believe GUNNERY would be the proper skill.
(BTW, Because of the gray areas between firearms/gunnery, as a GM I've
defined firearms as being everything you aim and fire manually(physically
using your own muscle power to aim), including weapons that are mounted but
direct-firing (e.g. HMGs on tripods, etc.). Gunnery inherets everything else.
Grenade launchers firing direct are governed by firearms and grenade launchers
firing indirect are governed by gunnery.)
__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 24
From: Sebastian Vilstrup <vilstrup@*****.IHI.KU.DK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 21:51:53 +0200
It seems my message came through completely garbled, so i'll try again,
with corrections for the too high fire rate

>From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
>Subject: GMC Banshees
>Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
>any of the wepaons in SRII?

Why don't you try the trusty old rotary assault cannon on a vehicle
hardpoint and four points of recoil reduction.

That should give a hefty damage codes:

#Rounds Target# Damage
3 0 21D+1

Then roll your 8 firearms, 8 combat pool and 7 (or less) sensors against=

target number of 2 (the banshee has 4 signature, right?). This
gives you something like 19 successes (rounded down). this gives
a total of:

#Rounds Target# Damage Modified damage
3 0 21D+1 21D+10

That's gotta hurt !! Also, remember that the assault cannon is
semi-armour piercing (which i interpret as half armour piercing). this
gives the standard Banshee a paltry 13 points of armour. BANG! one dead
banshee to go.

I've probably made some mistakes in the vehicle damage rules, as i
haven't got the book handy, but you get the idea. Flame me if you will, i=

have a ring of ¤#&# fire resistance on my finger.

- Sebastian

Message no. 25
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GMC Banshees
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:25:49 GMT
Sebastian Vilstrup writes

> It seems my message came through completely garbled, so i'll try again,
> with corrections for the too high fire rate
>
1) the origonal seemed not to bad, at least plenty legible.
2)check the back of SR2, the fire rate limits for the rotary cannons
are now 12 rounds!!!

> >From: "A.P. O'KEEFE" <IIS3APO@*******.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>
> >Subject: GMC Banshees
> >Is it just me or is it next to impossable to take down a Banshee with
> >any of the wepaons in SRII?
>
> Why don't you try the trusty old rotary assault cannon on a vehicle
> hardpoint and four points of recoil reduction.
>
> That should give a hefty damage codes:
>
> Then roll your 8 firearms
Yep gunnery, but as you said its an easy typo esp for those of us
that rarely use anything that needs gunnery!

>, 8 combat pool and 7 (or less) sensors against
> target number of 2 (the banshee has 4 signature, right?). This
> gives you something like 19 successes (rounded down). this gives
> a total of:
>
> #Rounds Target# Damage Modified damage
> 3 0 21D+1 21D+10
>
You can do better. (you don't need to but)
the 18D cannon, 12 round burst and load the thing with proper APDS
(it you are the miitatry you could get APFSDS probably but) Hardpoint
to halve that 2 per round recoil too 12. Gyromount, vehicle recoil
system 4 and shock pads (can give 12 recoil reduction) is no recoil.
Now thats a heafty
30D with 5 autostagings !!!!! (4 vs vehicle targets) APDS !!!

ok mr Banshe a 18D with loads after your armour, what do you mean i
only needed 1 of those successes!!!! BOOM!!!

> That's gotta hurt !! Also, remember that the assault cannon is
> semi-armour piercing (which i interpret as half armour piercing). this
> gives the standard Banshee a paltry 13 points of armour. BANG! one dead
> banshee to go.
>
> I've probably made some mistakes in the vehicle damage rules, as i
> haven't got the book handy, but you get the idea. Flame me if you will, i
> have a ring of #&# fire resistance on my finger.
>
> - Sebastian
>
Now 'TURN OFF MUNCHKIN MODE!!!' and try to avoid ever having to use
this!, the games suposed to be about roleplaying, not a military
wargame, which is about what that cannons suitable for.

Mark

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about GMC Banshees, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!