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From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	GM fairness (was Re: Vehicle Creation at Character Creation)
Date:	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:35:49 +0200

Message no. 1 According to Ice Heart, on Monday 02 August 2004 16:30 the word on the
street was...

> My players know I am fair and just... brutaly so. If they do stupid
> things, they will always pay for it, sometimes terminally. They
> "know" that I never fudge dice (well I do, but never to hurt them,
> and they don't ever know about it :> ).

I don't mess with dice rolls too much, but when I do, I don't tell the
players this, or give other signals to that extent (unlike our last GM,
with whom you could easily tell if he was "saving" our PCs from the danger
he himself had put them in :) because I feel it destroys the illusion if I
go telling the players things like "I'll take away two of the mage's
successes so you'll live through that Manabolt after all". And, like you,
I tend to make them suffer bad consequences from doing stupid things --
although that usually only applies to stupid stuff that they should have
known about, either because it's common knowledge or because I pointed it
out without consequences when they made the same (or a similar) mistake
earlier on.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject:	GM fairness (was Re: Vehicle Creation at Character Creation)
Date:	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:02:20 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 2 > I don't mess with dice rolls too much,

I fudge dice rolls under two circumstances. Scenario 1: the NPC
grunt just got an extremely lucky roll at a bad time. The injured PC
will get splattered by luck (bad, in this case) even though they did
their best in and out of character. Hmmm... scrap two successes on
the NPC's roll, and the situation stays tense, but survivable.
Scenario 2: a central NPC of the opposition is in dialogue with the
team's face. Things are building nicely to advance the plot and
character development on both sides of the GM screen... and the
team's sammie/sniper decides to "waste the stuck up slot" because
he/she (the player) is bored. I tend to lie outrageously about the
actual dice results (if I bother to roll at all). The NPC goes down,
yes, but survives. Things are now much worse for the team, and the
central antagonist is not wasted by one bored player with a lot of
dice.

> but when I do, I don't tell the players this, or give other signals
> to that extent (unlike our last GM, with whom you could easily tell
> if he was "saving" our PCs from the danger
> he himself had put them in :) because I feel it destroys the
> illusion if I
> go telling the players things like "I'll take away two of the
> mage's
> successes so you'll live through that Manabolt after all". And,
> like you,
> I tend to make them suffer bad consequences from doing stupid
> things --
> although that usually only applies to stupid stuff that they should
> have
> known about, either because it's common knowledge or because I
> pointed it
> out without consequences when they made the same (or a similar)
> mistake
> earlier on.

I give all PC's in my games (in any system) the "Common Sense" edge.
If you are contemplating an action that your character would know the
likely negative outcomes of, I will tell you. Some of it every
single character knows, but the players occasionally forget. [Umm,
you character knows that shooting LS troopers for fun results in bad
things.] Some things I reveal based on Knowledge skills. [That 5 in
Media Etiquette Background carries with it a memory that this
particular reporter doesn't take well to having a pistol thrust in
their face - more so than the average reporter.]

If I warn a player of possible negative outcomes that occur to their
character and they carry on regardless... well, imagine the outcome
in real life of flat out ignoring the voice of common sense. We have
Darwin Awards for a reason. :>

======Korishinzo
--Evil is more fun when the players actively court its wrath

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From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	GM fairness (was Re: Vehicle Creation at Character Creation)
Date:	Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:47:27 +0200

Message no. 3 According to Ice Heart, on Monday 02 August 2004 20:02 the word on the
street was...

> I fudge dice rolls under two circumstances.

I try not to get pinned down by "rules" like this :)

> I give all PC's in my games (in any system) the "Common Sense" edge.

To a lesser extent, so do I -- but players new to the setting will get more
leniency (sp?) than ones who've played <insert game here> for years.

> If I warn a player of possible negative outcomes that occur to their
> character and they carry on regardless...

Same here; if you decide to do it after you've been warned, you deserve
what you get. Of course, sometimes they manage to pull it off anyway.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	crowley@*********.ch (Michael Schmidt)
Subject:	GM fairness (was Re: Vehicle Creation at Character Creation)
Date:	Tue, 03 Aug 2004 16:18:40 +0200

Message no. 4 Ice Heart schrieb:
> Scenario 2: a central NPC of the opposition is in dialogue with the
> team's face. Things are building nicely to advance the plot and
> character development on both sides of the GM screen... and the
> team's sammie/sniper decides to "waste the stuck up slot" because
> he/she (the player) is bored. I tend to lie outrageously about the
> actual dice results (if I bother to roll at all). The NPC goes down,
> yes, but survives. Things are now much worse for the team, and the
> central antagonist is not wasted by one bored player with a lot of
> dice.

That would be the point where all my fairness ends. This would
definitely maneuver the groups into a position where at least the sniper
gets killed in a really nasty way. The player should have to suffer
really bad for his characters dumbness.

> I give all PC's in my games (in any system) the "Common Sense" edge.
> If you are contemplating an action that your character would know the
> likely negative outcomes of, I will tell you.

That's important, as very few players share the knowledge and experience
level of their characters. At least I think, I yet haven't had a special
forces soldier or assassin in my group, but on the other hand who knows...

Some of it every
> single character knows, but the players occasionally forget. [Umm,
> you character knows that shooting LS troopers for fun results in bad
> things.]

Well, this should be too straight forward, shouldn't it.

Some things I reveal based on Knowledge skills. [That 5 in
> Media Etiquette Background carries with it a memory that this
> particular reporter doesn't take well to having a pistol thrust in
> their face - more so than the average reporter.]
>
> If I warn a player of possible negative outcomes that occur to their
> character and they carry on regardless... well, imagine the outcome
> in real life of flat out ignoring the voice of common sense. We have
> Darwin Awards for a reason. :>

GMs also should have their share of the fun. And make up the punishment
for such an action is definitely.

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