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Message no. 1
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: GM munchkins
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 17:32:33 EST
Ok, we have all discussed how to handle troublesome players, how to handdle
munchkins.
What if your GM likes a campaign with a much higher power level than you do?
You want gang fighting, he likes wings of dragons, that kind of thing.

Or what if your gm loves his npc's and overly munchkinizes a few of them so that
they are made with budgets of around 4 000 000 000 nY, and unkillable [I don't
mean virtually, I mean really unkillable, attributes with hardened armors and
all attributes well beyond the 20's, special abilities like no drain to spells
up to force xx, due to some rituals or other, willpowers xx,........ ... you get
the idea]

Ideas other than quit the campaign are welcome....
Ferri
Message no. 2
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: GM munchkins
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 14:15:50 -0600 (MDT)
Ferri Pagano wrote:
|
|Ok, we have all discussed how to handle troublesome players, how to
|handdle munchkins. What if your GM likes a campaign with a much higher
|power level than you do? You want gang fighting, he likes wings of
|dragons, that kind of thing.
|
|Or what if your gm loves his npc's and overly munchkinizes a few of
|them so that they are made with budgets of around 4 000 000 000 nY, and
|unkillable [I don't mean virtually, I mean really unkillable,
|attributes with hardened armors and all attributes well beyond the
|20's, special abilities like no drain to spells up to force xx, due to
|some rituals or other, willpowers xx,........ ... you get the idea]
|
|Ideas other than quit the campaign are welcome....

Well, since you sound reluctant to quit I'll assume that the GM has some
redeeming qualities. Talk to your GM and see if he's willing to run a
lower powered game. Also, make sure the other players like the idea too
(after you've talked to the GM, so it won't look like you're ganging up on
him). And in response to the UberNPCs, I've got a few myself. Why? Cuz
my campaign requires them. If, however, the NPCs are powerful just to make
the GM happy, then you might question him about it.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 3
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 17:51:08 -0700
David Buehrer wrote:
> .....Talk to your GM and see if he's willing to run a
> lower powered game. Also, make sure the other players like the idea too
> (after you've talked to the GM, so it won't look like you're ganging up on
> him).....
Now there are other avenues to take as well..You could do like some of my
players did one time..They all shanghied my tied my to a chair and threatened
to burn all of my books and dice if I didn't start seeing things the way they
wanted me to.. ;)
-------------------------------GRANITE
Message no. 4
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:21:05 -0500 (EST)
>
>Ok, we have all discussed how to handle troublesome players, how to handdle
>munchkins.
>What if your GM likes a campaign with a much higher power level than you do?
>You want gang fighting, he likes wings of dragons, that kind of thing.
>
>Or what if your gm loves his npc's and overly munchkinizes a few of them so
that
>they are made with budgets of around 4 000 000 000 nY, and unkillable [I don't
>mean virtually, I mean really unkillable, attributes with hardened armors and
>all attributes well beyond the 20's, special abilities like no drain to spells
>up to force xx, due to some rituals or other, willpowers xx,........ ...
you get
>the idea]
>
>Ideas other than quit the campaign are welcome....
> Ferri
>
>
>
>
>I have always been of the opinion that the GM has a license to slay whoever
he wants, and it's up to the players to steer clear.
However, "With great power comes great responsibilty," as well. If the GM is
laying it too hard on the players, they simply need to make their wishes known.
You always have the option of not going on these crazy runs. And if that
doesn't give the GM a clue, then cheat - BRIBE him!!!
GM's are total suckers for bribes. Whether it be food, Magic cards, or
whatever. Convince him that he needs to try things differently. Go out of
your way to encounter low level gang bangers, and Stuffer Shack clerks.
If all else fail, gang up on the GM. You can either file a formal protest in
the form of a petition signed by all the players, or you can try it with a
little more style - trap, sabotage and kill these walking powerhouses.
After all, anything that powerfull (20+++) must have equally powerful
enemies!!!!! Find another dragon to kick Lofwyr's butt!!! Or See if Ehran
wants to help nail Harlequin to the wall??
Then again, you could just volunteer to GM, and give the GM a break!!!
Message no. 5
From: Daniel Sauve <josha@*********.com>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:45:43 -0400
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> Postage paid by: [Image]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> >Ok, we have all discussed how to handle troublesome players, how to handdle
> >munchkins.
> >What if your GM likes a campaign with a much higher power level than you do?
> >You want gang fighting, he likes wings of dragons, that kind of thing.
> >
> >Or what if your gm loves his npc's and overly munchkinizes a few of them so
> that
> >they are made with budgets of around 4 000 000 000 nY, and unkillable [I don't
> >mean virtually, I mean really unkillable, attributes with hardened armors and
> >all attributes well beyond the 20's, special abilities like no drain to spells
> >up to force xx, due to some rituals or other, willpowers xx,........ ...
> you get
> >the idea]
> >
> >Ideas other than quit the campaign are welcome....
> > Ferri
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I have always been of the opinion that the GM has a license to slay whoever
> he wants, and it's up to the players to steer clear.
> However, "With great power comes great responsibilty," as well. If the GM
is
> laying it too hard on the players, they simply need to make their wishes known.
> You always have the option of not going on these crazy runs. And if that
> doesn't give the GM a clue, then cheat - BRIBE him!!!
> GM's are total suckers for bribes. Whether it be food, Magic cards, or
> whatever. Convince him that he needs to try things differently. Go out of
> your way to encounter low level gang bangers, and Stuffer Shack clerks.
> If all else fail, gang up on the GM. You can either file a formal protest in
> the form of a petition signed by all the players, or you can try it with a
> little more style - trap, sabotage and kill these walking powerhouses.
> After all, anything that powerfull (20+++) must have equally powerful
> enemies!!!!! Find another dragon to kick Lofwyr's butt!!! Or See if Ehran
> wants to help nail Harlequin to the wall??
> Then again, you could just volunteer to GM, and give the GM a break!!!Anytime I find
myself doing that, I just remember- instead of making him
indestructable, and can have my PCs think he's dead, then bring him
back, held together with cyber and/ or bioware.
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 11:20:19 +0100
GRANITE said on 17:51/ 9 Aug 96...

> Now there are other avenues to take as well..You could do like some of my
> players did one time..They all shanghied my tied my to a chair and threatened
> to burn all of my books and dice if I didn't start seeing things the way they
> wanted me to.. ;)

and on 17:32/ 9 Aug 96...

> Or you could come on down to GJ Colorado..There is good fishing and beutiful
> Mountains..As well as A GM without players..Me :(

I'm not surprised about this, for some reason :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
They'll tell you you can't have your own way.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 08:32:57 -0600 (MDT)
GRANITE wrote:
|
|David Buehrer wrote:
|> .....Talk to your GM and see if he's willing to run a
|> lower powered game. Also, make sure the other players like the idea too
|> (after you've talked to the GM, so it won't look like you're ganging up on
|> him).....
|
|Now there are other avenues to take as well..You could do like some of my
|players did one time..They all shanghied my tied my to a chair and threatened
|to burn all of my books and dice if I didn't start seeing things the way they
|wanted me to.. ;)

Well, that's option number two :)

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~~~~
Message no. 8
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:46:27 -0700
Gurth wrote:
> I'm not surprised about this, for some reason :)
I moved...I have been trying to enlist some of the guys I work with..They
seem interested enough talking about it..But get them all together and all of
the sudden it is off to the lake...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 9
From: Pete Sims <petesims@********.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:08:16 +0100
In article <320BDCFC.5098@**.net>, GRANITE <granite@**.net> writes
>David Buehrer wrote:
>> .....Talk to your GM and see if he's willing to run a
>> lower powered game. Also, make sure the other players like the idea too
>> (after you've talked to the GM, so it won't look like you're ganging up on
>> him).....
>Now there are other avenues to take as well..You could do like some of my
>players did one time..They all shanghied my tied my to a chair and threatened
>to burn all of my books and dice if I didn't start seeing things the way they
>wanted me to.. ;)

Tried both of these with a GM I used to play with a number of years ago,
he was an AD&D addict, and we *always* met 14 level illusionists, with
party being about 1st level. When he upgraded to Earthdawn recently,
and after playing in my games for several years, I figured he might have
learned a lesson, my mistake. Horrors and high threat things
everywhere. My elven swordmaster lasted one evening, and I didn't pick
a fight. Unfortunately he was also the player I asked to leave my game,
we still talk, and he loves hearing about the player escapades, but I
daren't let him play again, he does everything he can to upset other
players, I don't know why, and neither does anyone else, least of all
himself.

Some GMs can't change, they *are* the munchkin that everyone dreads.
The chap mentioned above, is just such a type. He has over the last 20
years of gaming, got through around 150 players, and has been hunting
desperately for a team to use now, (I think he recently convinced his
theatrical group to have a go).

It hasn't made any difference over the fact that for 20 years I've been
moaning at him about his style of GM'ing, he continues to be the same.

It's a shame, but it happens.

Don't give up hope, not everyone is this extreme. For a couple of
years I had a reputation as being a "hard" GM, and killing characters,
after my players had a word about it, and told me their feelings, I
changed my style of GM'ing, I don't kill anywhere near as often as I
used to, in fact I still have one player with an original character
from the beginning of Shadowrun. A Mage (no he has not munchkinned - is
that a word??) But... I go *very* big on the terror and fear inherent
in Shadowrun. The unpredictability of opponents and street types, the
lack of knowledge of what the other guy can do, and the mage has
survived this long by being a coward, and not mixing it with unknowns,
he has got hurt, he has done his best on occassion, but mostly, he has
survived by being scared. Two other characters retired from the game
and lead reasonably happy lives in other cities.

I don't kill, or very rarely... but Paranoia is a very powerful weapon.
So, I figure if I can change to suit my players, others can as well, and
I'm sure most GM's up here would agree. BUT... (and there's always a
but..) some can't.

Talk to the guy, tell him what you're unhappy with, talk to the other
players, and find out what they don't like, and try an after game bull
session, to clear the air, unhappy players and unhappy GMs are not
condusive to good gaming.
>

--
Pete Sims
Message no. 10
From: Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 14:02:44 +1000 (EST)
On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> >
> Then again, you could just volunteer to GM, and give the GM a break!!!
>

Here, Here!!!!!!!



===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.
Message no. 11
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 00:52:16 -0500 (EST)
>I don't kill, or very rarely... but Paranoia is a very powerful weapon.
>So, I figure if I can change to suit my players, others can as well, and
>I'm sure most GM's up here would agree. BUT... (and there's always a
>but..) some can't.
>
Paranoia is an extremely powerful GM tool. My two main PC's Bull, and Johnny
99 have accumulated a total of apprx 250 karma each, having pools in excess
of 20 dice, however I need only mention certain words, and they tremble in fear.
Bugs have been a terror of Bull's for a long time. He was abused by them
once and still fears them.
Johnny has trouble with a certain assassin named Kyle Morgan. In fact, the
mere mention that KM is in town sends the ladz packing.
Why do these powerful characters fear these things so? Two reasons - Shock,
and GM privilege.
By shock, I mean the fact that these two entities have surprised the boys
time after time. They have had their families harassed, their plans ruined,
and even had their lives threatened. Now, when these critters pop up, the
players immediately are thrown into overdrive. It really adds an intense
feel to a roleplaying session.
GM Privilege is the way I have managed to keep important NPC's alive. The
aforementioned Kyle Morgan was a tough NPC in the Maria Mercurial book, but
hardly a world class threat. I adopted the character, and by making him
appear to have eyes everywhere, and an infinite supply of resources - he
became a major threat to my players.

How about the rest of you? How do you induce a healthy level of paranoia
into your Players?
Message no. 12
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: GM munchkins
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:26:36 +0000
On 12 Aug 96 at 0:52, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
[snip]
> How about the rest of you? How do you induce a healthy level of paranoia
> into your Players?

Although I think this is a topic for ShadowGM, my main weapon are rumors. Let
a NPC mention someone asked for the characters is enough to stop over-eager
players and turn them into VERY careful ones.

And of course they have some NPCs they fear/hate, but can't overcome (or
haven't yet, at least), among them a mercenary leader who's especially fond of
the group to make his shadw ops (and they _HATE_ him :-), and a ... well,
let's say a free spirit.

Another way is to link some shadowruns, in any way. Same enemies, same target
corp, whenever similarilities show up, they tend to get nervous (the players,
of course :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

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