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From:	oukami@**.rr.com (Patrick Bierlein)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:52:57 -0400

Message no. 1 Just out of curiosity, this was supposed to have gone in my first post
but I forgot.

When you all are creating characters with a group of people, do you do
it all as a group at once or individually with each person. I ask
because it seemed like when my group was making there characters as a
group everything went to chaotic trying to explain different aspects to
different people at the same time. I was wondering if maybe it would
have been easier to have done it individually instead of a huge group.

Comments?

Thanks,
Oukami

From:	papasm@***.net (Michael Papas)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:14:57 -0700

Message no. 2 -----Original Message-----
From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
[mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
Bierlein
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 6:53 PM
To: Shadowrun Discussion
Subject: GM Question 2

Just out of curiosity, this was supposed to have gone in my first post
but I forgot.

When you all are creating characters with a group of people, do you do
it all as a group at once or individually with each person. I ask
because it seemed like when my group was making there characters as a
group everything went to chaotic trying to explain different aspects to
different people at the same time. I was wondering if maybe it would
have been easier to have done it individually instead of a huge group.

Comments?

>> What I have always done is this: Independently generate character
concept (a phrase that sums up the character), combination of group and
independent generation of character story, and then I sit down with each
of the players to 'over-watch' stat generation

Thanks,
Oukami

From:	greenripper13@*******.com (Green Ripper)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:38:09 -0500

Message no. 3 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Bierlein" <oukami@**.rr.com>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: GM Question 2

> Just out of curiosity, this was supposed to have gone in my first post
> but I forgot.
>
> When you all are creating characters with a group of people, do you do
> it all as a group at once or individually with each person. I ask
> because it seemed like when my group was making there characters as a
> group everything went to chaotic trying to explain different aspects to
> different people at the same time. I was wondering if maybe it would
> have been easier to have done it individually instead of a huge group.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Oukami
>

I've been playing and running Shadowrun since First Edition and I can
honestly say that the method I use depends on the group. If I'm playing
with experienced (and trusted) players I leave character creation up to them
and just give the characters a quick "going over". With less experienced
players I prefer to have one-on-one time to help them with the characters.

A small point on character creation. In my group we're going with the
BeCKS system of character creation this time. All of us veteran Shadowrun
players are rather happy with it. You have some innate balance of the stats
due to the fact that you basically build a character with karma. You can
find the system at http://tss.dumpshock.com/download.html courtesy of Adam.

--Green Ripper

From:	korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:32:35 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 4 --- Patrick Bierlein <oukami@**.rr.com> wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, this was supposed to have gone in my first
> post
> but I forgot.
>
> When you all are creating characters with a group of people, do you
> do
> it all as a group at once or individually with each person. I ask
> because it seemed like when my group was making there characters as
> a
> group everything went to chaotic trying to explain different
> aspects to
> different people at the same time. I was wondering if maybe it
> would
> have been easier to have done it individually instead of a huge
> group.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Oukami

I try to sit one-on-one with newer players, or players experimenting
with new territory in the game (playing their first decker, for
example). More experienced players I leave to their own devices, and
check their math/balance/flavor-text when they are done.

Often, I'll have Char Gen Night, where we discuss concepts for the
game. Everyone discusses character ideas, and talks about what they
have in mind for skillsets, types of contacts, preferred gear, etc.
This helps avoid excessive redundency or major gaps in the team's
make up. I like my players to hand me at least a rough cut of their
backstory before they start shuffling numbers. This is usually
handled by giving everyone printed copies of the 20-Questions. They
fill out what they can, and then keep adding once they start
assigning stats. Starting with the story/description/etc keeps the
concept tighter, and speeds up the process of generating the numbers.

======Korishinzo
--My mother is an English teacher... that may explain my propensity
for making my players write stuff... indirect revenge. ;>

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From:	sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:03:24 -0400

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From:	marc.renouf@******.com (Renouf, Marc A)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:16:12 -0400

Message no. 6 > -----Original Message-----
> From: oukami@**.rr.com [mailto:oukami@**.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:53 PM
>
> When you all are creating characters with a group of people,
> do you do
> it all as a group at once or individually with each person.

As others have stated, it largely depends on the group. Back in
college when I had a large, continuous game going, characters would come and
go as they did dumb stuff and got killed, or the players would graduate or
run out of tuition money, or whatever. Players would create characters
individually as they joined the campaign in progress. I might veto a
concept here or there as just plain silly, but most of the time people came
up with good (and rather devious) ideas. This led to a *very* paranoid
group, as none of the *characters* really knew each other. Added to this
was the fact that there had been PC undercover cops and informants (like I
said, devious) at various points in the campaign and you ended up with a
situation where the most lethal thing that the characters had to worry about
was ... the other characters. There was virtually *no* trust, and what
little trust was there had to be earned over time.
It also led to odd situations where by sheer coincidence, the party
didn't have a mage, or the other extreme where they were basically *all*
mages. It just depended on which characters were in the campaign at the
time.
That's all well and fine if you have plenty of time for the
characters to develop (and in college, we all had lots of time). Nowadays,
I find that we don't have the time for this level of character interaction.
As such, I typically have the players create their characters as a group.
For one thing, this ensures a well-balanced party. Oddly enough, my current
party has three of seven members playing physical adepts, but they are so
radically different in their skills and abilities that they might as well be
different classes, and their abilities complement each other very well.
But by far the most important thing I make them take into
consideration during character creation is "how does your character know the
other characters?" I have them assume that they've been working as an
established team for about a year, but I make them figure out who knows whom
and how. You end up with some very interesting relationships (e.g. two of
the characters had a third as a drill sergeant when they were in the
military, two of the characters are members of the same chapter of an Ork
and Troll civil rights group, etc).
This way, I can guarantee that the characters both a) work well
together, and b) won't spend all their time trying to find new and better
ways to kill each other.
Both methods are perfectly acceptable. But given the constraints on
our daily lives by other commitments, I've chosen to go with the easier
route (and been very happy with the result).

Marc

From:	honken101@********.net (Fredrik Holmqvist)
Subject:	GM Question 2
Date:	Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:41:16 +0200

Message no. 7 At 03:52 2004-08-03, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, this was supposed to have gone in my first post but
>I forgot.
>
>When you all are creating characters with a group of people, do you do it
>all as a group at once or individually with each person. I ask because it
>seemed like when my group was making there characters as a group
>everything went to chaotic trying to explain different aspects to
>different people at the same time. I was wondering if maybe it would have
>been easier to have done it individually instead of a huge group.

I have very recently introduced a group totally new to Shadowrun. I have
introduced new players to other games before and i have found that if i
make their first character with some input from the player works the best.
Even though it's not super popular with all players most did lived with it,
and everybody is still playing with the characters I've made. Even though
we're just on our second adventure (dreamchipper for those of you that
knows of it).

What i can say though is not to do this with a group larger then 3 or 4
players.

And since i hadn't play in a long while i said to the players that until we
understand and know the basics we won't introduce any of the expansion rules.

That's how i did it.

/Honken

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