Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "The Kumquat <smirk>" <CRF_BROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:18:23 -0500
First off,
I'd like to say that perhaps my flaming of many of the new people on this list
could be construed as a little harsh, but it was not meant to be taken
personally, and I don't think (for the most part) I said anything that wasn't
already standard netiquette. Thanks to Doom, Rasputin and any others for their
support, suggestions, etcetera... but this is not a place for "us against them"
kind of taking sides. I apologize if I offended anyone, But hey, we're all
friends here, neh? I don't "hate" shadowdancer... I don't hate ANYONE if I can
help it, but I just want to make sure that things are fair for everyone...
including those of us who pay for net access.... To all the new people, I say,
Welcome! My point was exactly that posts containing such tidbits of
intelligent jargon such as "frag off!" are of no use to anyone....
Ok, let's put this thread to bed.

For a Shadowrun Question now, I need some input from all of those GM's
listening out there. How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
away what is important... An example. "You walk into the bar, and everything
seems to be normal nightlife, EXCEPT this one guy sitting in the corner
booth.. " Gee, I wonder who I should talk to for this run? <wink,wink>
How can we be effective storytellers? Should we have pre-written descriptions
for every location, person, or other piece of "scenery" the Characters meet?
How can I, as a GM, avoid "leading" the characters around with too-obvious
clues? And, if they are wasting hours on unimportant parts of the adventure,
how can I let them know, without being too obvious as to where they should go?
I'd appreciate any suggestion/discussion.

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat.
Message no. 2
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:14:33 EST
Kumquat sez:

> that posts containing such tidbits of
> intelligent jargon such as "frag off!" are of no use to anyone....
> Ok, let's put this thread to bed.
I totally and completly disagree. This "tidbit" is part of the SR
universe. It is this jargon that helps make the game unique and adds
to the whole flavor of the game(and this list). It also helps distingush
those who run and those who "adventure"(T$R word). If anyone does
not know what some of this jargon means, either post
questions(private e-mail) or buy one of the novals. Though you may
not pick up on it at first, comprehension will soon follow.



> how can I let them know, without being too obvious as to where they
should go?
> I'd appreciate any suggestion/discussion.
>
>
>
Try some post-run clues. Especially in a different language. Make it
one the players do not know. Also, the bar with the strange guy, say
something like," You walk into your favorite watering hole. As your
eyes adjust( or switch modes), you see the familiar faces of the
regulars, plus some new ones. As you saunter up the the bar to order
your favorite drinks, a loud,hacking choke booms from the back
corner. One of these newbies seems to have drank something he
shouldn't." Make perception roll. Any who make it see," a strange
package fall from the man's hand as he desperatly tries to suppress
his choking. One of the local toughs decides to play around with him
a little. The man does his best to get back the package, but to no
avail. What do you do?"
If your runners are the compasionate type, no prob. But for the
vicious type, try knocking them out. Drop them off in and unfamiliar
place with a totally obvious clue, then frag around with them with very
sublte clues. If they are paranoid enough, they'll pick up, but if not....




Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 3
From: Jeff Norrell <norrell@*******.ME.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:17:52 +0600
>How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
>away what is important..


That certainly is a problem... What I tend to do is require the players to
make a perception test. Either they roll or I roll for them. Assign some
target number based on ease of test and then use the intelligence or some
appropriate skill for the test basis. However, to keep the players on their
toes, make some random perception tests even where there is nothing to see.
You know, roll some dice, look at them with a thoughtful look, and say something
like, "What a shame" and keep going. Gives players ulcers. It's great.

-Jeff
Message no. 4
From: Firepower <DVANDERS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:25:18 EST
This is always a problem--unfortunately, you can only do so much
with a story. Sure, you could go into excruciating detail, but, as Doug
Adams once said, boredom doesn't sell.
I have frankly always agonized over the "goon in bar"
problem--sometimes to the point of after--the--game self--kicking and
"what I should have done was..." I certainly don't want to describe
every fraggin' (pardon my streetslang) person in the entire bar!
I try instead to let the runners relax on the floor or at the bar--then
have the trouble come to them... NPCs are always a problem as
well. often my classes won't give me the time to create the kind of
memorable NPCs that I would be a lot happier with...

Dikote flechettes carefully......

FIREPOWER
Message no. 5
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 21:45:55 -0700
>You know, roll some dice, look at them with a thoughtful look, and say something
>like, "What a shame" and keep going. Gives players ulcers. It's great.

yes but most players already know this trick, and if they don't they get
everything they deserve. :)

option 2: cackle Maniacly - my old Vampire GM John did this a lot,
but then again, John would cackle maniacly when he wasn't GM'ing

Nightfox
Message no. 6
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:11:23 +0200
± Welcome! My point was exactly that posts containing such tidbits of
± intelligent jargon such as "frag off!" are of no use to anyone....
± Ok, let's put this thread to bed.

I suppose you mean me :) Anyway I am sorry for my not so polite
responce, but I get really peeved when people tell me what to post and what not
After all this is what Internet is all about, Anarchy....

± For a Shadowrun Question now, I need some input from all of those GM's
± listening out there. How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
± away what is important... An example. "You walk into the bar, and everything
± seems to be normal nightlife, EXCEPT this one guy sitting in the corner
± booth.. " Gee, I wonder who I should talk to for this run? <wink,wink>
± How can we be effective storytellers? Should we have pre-written descriptions
± for every location, person, or other piece of "scenery" the Characters
meet?
± How can I, as a GM, avoid "leading" the characters around with
too-obvious
± clues? And, if they are wasting hours on unimportant parts of the adventure,
± how can I let them know, without being too obvious as to where they should go?
± I'd appreciate any suggestion/discussion.

I understand this problem all too well its one of the primary
atmosphere killers in my game. The only way to solve this problem as I see it
would be to totally wing all situations effectivelly making the story fit
your players actions. This however requires a lot of reading - exceptional
knowledge of the plot and all possible consequences.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++VS++L>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N++ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b+++ D++ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 7
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 15:41:02 EST
> yes but most players already know this trick, and if they don't they
get
> everything they deserve. :)
>
Even if they do know this trick, it works. My group is so paranoid, one
die accendentally falling from my hand garners moans and groans.
Of course, juggernauts stepping on their vehicles tends to get anyone
paranoid.....



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 8
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 09:57:22 +1100
> For a Shadowrun Question now, I need some input from all of those GM's
> listening out there. How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
> away what is important... An example. "You walk into the bar, and everything
> seems to be normal nightlife, EXCEPT this one guy sitting in the corner
> booth.. " Gee, I wonder who I should talk to for this run? <wink,wink>

The way our GM does it, I believe, is to do it subtly.

First, you tailor your descriptions to the players attention spans.
Typically, this means keep it reasonably brief. :-)

Then, within those constraints, you give enough details to set the
atmosphere and clue in those observant enough to pick up on the odd
or suggestive detail.

By the way, it would be rare to give a description that includes the
phrase Exterminator
3000' machine; a guy in the corner booth at the back, just watching
everything; another guy in a trenchcoat, his seat back against the wall
watching you check him out. Plenty of people in here tonight, you may
find trouble getting a table."

The basic idea is, flesh out the scene in your own mind. What's
probably tending to trip you up is your knowledge that in the bar
tonight, everything's normal except for the guy in the corner booth.
So your description focusses on him.

De-focus. Look around.

Hope this helps,
luke
Message no. 9
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:43:11 -0700
On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, The Kumquat <CRF_BROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU> wrote:

> For a Shadowrun Question now, I need some input from all of those GM's
> listening out there. How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
> away what is important... An example. "You walk into the bar, and everything
> seems to be normal nightlife, EXCEPT this one guy sitting in the corner
> booth.. " Gee, I wonder who I should talk to for this run? <wink,wink>

I've always found that mentioning everything helps. Instead of pointing
out the stuff that may be important, point out everything and let the
runners decide what is important.

here's an example:
"You all arrive at the Neon Blue Iguana. It's a slow night but the music
thumps all the same. Three females are pawing over some slot with
chromed eyes. The barteneder is having an in-depth conversation with a
woman dressed for success. The three occupied booths contain a rank of
suits, three in one, two in another, and one lone suit nursing a drink.
Many tabes are occupied, most by what looks like a group of high class
gangers. Many beautiful women and striking men are dancing, most either
human or elven. A dwarf brushes by you as you are stopped by the
bouncer. 'Declarin' anything, chum-pals?' says the Troll in a gruff
voice. From where you're staring, the flower on his lapel is at eye
level. You might consider checking your weapons in now."

That's if you've got time to kill and a way with words, of course. if
you have set situations like this in your adventure, you might consider
writing out a flash card of place descriptions and reading from them.
Plays away from the personal aspect, but it sets the scene nonetheless.

Mike aka Spellslinger
Message no. 10
From: "J. Long" <LONG2469@********.BITNET>
Subject: Re: GM's And Storytelling
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 20:49:27 -0500
Date sent: 2-NOV-1994 20:37:48


>On Thu, 27 Oct 1994, The Kumquat <CRF_BROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU> wrote:
>
>> For a Shadowrun Question now, I need some input from all of those GM's
>> listening out there. How do you deal with being descriptive without giving
>> away what is important... An example. "You walk into the bar, and everything
>> seems to be normal nightlife, EXCEPT this one guy sitting in the corner
>> booth.. " Gee, I wonder who I should talk to for this run? <wink,wink>
>

Hoi Chummer:

What I've always tried to do is to insert myself into the situation. You
should try to describe what the characters SENSE. This could be smells,
feelings, sights, Temperature, ETC.


I.E.
**** As you enter this low-town dive you are overwhelmed by the smell of stale
vomit, and urine. The Stacato-BOOM BA BA BOOM of the music is just heard you
can feel it push against your skin. As your eyes scan the room you notice an
overall seedyness to the environmentn not exactly the kind of place you'd want
your mother to come to. As you wander to the bar your Gut tells you to watch
your back, you get the feeling that perhaps the guy in the corner booth might
be scoping you out. *****


This is just a small hint, also make your people (NPC'S) come alive they
are your tool for giving players info. You should never be too blatant
about the info. Afterall the players characters are NOT just telemetry for
the gathering of information they are supposed to be living breathing
people with a life and vitality of thier own. Finally as hinted to above
your players will be most happy if you can immerse them in the environment,
give them every little neuance you can, this will only further highten the
believability of of the situation. If you can accomlish all this your
players will be given all the information they need to have to make
decisions. And don't forget the GM'S credo. (EXPECT, THE UNEXPECTED)

Stay Frosty,
______________________________________________________________________________
Jamison J. Long (AKA Neuromancer, Flag Admiral, Jamie) [{Founder T.E.R.R.A}]
LONG2469@******.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU or LONG2469@********.bitnet

Alea Iacta est. (The Die is Cast.) -Iulius Caesar, upon crossing the Rubicon.
{Also the Motto of T.E.R.R.A. [The Embry-Riddle Roleplaying Assoc.]}

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about GM's And Storytelling, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!