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Message no. 1
From: "Lynn Twiss" <ltwiss@********.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:01:38 +0000
Forwarded message:
From: Self <ltwiss>
To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
Subject: Goblinization Questions
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:25:40

I just had a few questions concerning goblinization.

1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
puberty?

2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
puberty?


Thanks
Lynn Twiss



Lynn Twiss
Clackamas, Oregon
Message no. 2
From: "Lynn Twiss" <ltwiss@********.com>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:55:18 +0000
> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions


>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:
> > 1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
> > puberty?
>
> I can;'t place on, but I believe so
> >
> > 2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
> > have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
> > If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
> > puberty?
> >
> Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
> was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.
>


Chemically? Really?
That now rises the question of : Before the rise of Magic were there
people running around with a gene that enabled them to goblinize?

I thought that the rise of magic was what actually triggered the
gene. Why weren't there more outbreaks of goblinization earlier that
2010? There defenatly is enough gene tampering going on right now
(1996)



Lynn Twiss
Clackamas, Oregon
Message no. 3
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:56:43 +1000 (EST)
On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:

> > Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:
> > > 1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
> > > puberty?

Yes. In changling, the Troll's professor friend was married, had a wife
and kids when he goblinized into a Ghoul.

> > > 2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
> > > have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
> > > If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
> > > puberty?
> > >
> > Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
> > was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.

It was his sister actually.

>
>
> Chemically? Really?
> That now rises the question of : Before the rise of Magic were there
> people running around with a gene that enabled them to goblinize?

Yes their were. There was people with elvish genes that sometimes were
born elvish (spike babies) and sometimes weren't.

> I thought that the rise of magic was what actually triggered the
> gene. Why weren't there more outbreaks of goblinization earlier that
> 2010? There defenatly is enough gene tampering going on right now
> (1996)

Maybe because the level of magic has to constant and high for actual
goblinisation to occur (This is just a guess/theory). Not as much is
needed to simply breed true (ie be born the appropriate race), but this
can only happen with orks and trolls after they have goblinised i.e. they
have to exist before they can breed true.


Ray.

_______________________________________________________________________
| 'The Universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be |
| missed.' |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: n1565842@*******.qut.edu.au or
r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au
Message no. 4
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:18:48 -0700 (PDT)
> > Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
> > was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.

Huh? I don't recall this. I thought he was human.
Janice (Sam's sister) was Orc, then later Wendigo.

In one of our stranger games, a PC became a mix of Orc/Elf after results
of a corp diddlying with his genes. He was human, then Orc, then became
Elf/Orc. Turned out the Corp (Japanese) was interested in trying to
reverse the Orc transformation. They ended up with something almost
elven. (The PC was designed as Elf)

He also had implanted memories, so he'd never know. Our group got him
hosed on the decker's concotion of alcohol. (She brews a real kicker of a
... I dunno what to call it. Makes mundanes fell like they are magical.)

This was one of my least fave story-chunks, it was just plain stupid the
way our GM dealt with it. And the PC's player was pissed, royally, not
that I blame her.

> I thought that the rise of magic was what actually triggered the
> gene. Why weren't there more outbreaks of goblinization earlier that
> 2010? There defenatly is enough gene tampering going on right now
> (1996)

There were the spike babies, but I only recall a few, all elven.
Prof Laverty, Dodger (?), and Liam O'Connor.

Perhaps the Celtic mythologies of changling children also point to spike
babies of other meta-types?

There is an Irish legend of a set of twins that were switched and the
changeling/dwarf replacements never aged. After a number of years, (2 in
one story I read, 5 in another version) she obtained advice from a Druid,
and left an egg shell with milk by the front door, and then hid and
listened to the twins talk to each other, about the odd behaviour of their
'mother'. She got her own twins back, but this could be a fanciful change
by a bard telling the story, who, for the sake of telling a story pleasing
to his audience, decided the mother did indeed get her (human) childern
back.

--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
This post in no way reflect the opinions of the myriad voices in my head.

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Message no. 5
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:44:32 -0500 (EST)
>Forwarded message:
>From: Self <ltwiss>
>To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
>Subject: Goblinization Questions
>Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:25:40
>
>I just had a few questions concerning goblinization.
>
>1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
>puberty?

Ummm, I don't remember exactly where it was, probably in the novels
somewhere, but it is possible, just very rare...

>
>2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
>have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
>If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
>puberty?
>

This I don't think so, but I do know that certain organizations are trying
to develop scientific ways to convert metas to humans or humans to metas...


#######################################################
# -Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich #
# chaos@*****.com #
# Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours? #
#######################################################

"You do more damage out of simple irritation than most
men can do in a towering rage."
-David Eddings, "Demon Lord of Karanda
Message no. 6
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 02:58:03 -0500 (EST)
>> > 2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
>> > have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
>> > If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
>> > puberty?
>> >
>> Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
>> was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.

What the H___?

Where did that happen?
His sister was altered from an Orc into a Wendigo through the HMVVirus, but
Sam was human throughout the entire series AFAIK.


FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"They can't see us . . . we're in the Spirit World!"
Message no. 7
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 01:43:59 -0700
RAY MACEY wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:
>
> > > Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:
> > > > 1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
> > > > puberty?
>
> Yes. In changling, the Troll's professor friend was married, had a wife
> and kids when he goblinized into a Ghoul.
>
> > > > 2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
> > > > have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
> > > > If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
> > > > puberty?
> > > >
> > > Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
> > > was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.
>
> It was his sister actually.

I was about to say "BZZZZT! Wrong! Thanx for playing. Sam Verner was
100% human during the whole trilogy."

Now I remember his sister being chemically treated trying to stop the
goblinization, but where is anyone getting the idea she was chemically
made into an ork??? If this were possible don't you believe the Humanis
Policlubs would be having a hey-day showing the meta-races were
"artifical people" and other organizations would be playing gods making
up new meta-races...



@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:22:52 +0100
Lynn Twiss said on 17:55/23 Sep 96...

> That now rises the question of : Before the rise of Magic were there
> people running around with a gene that enabled them to goblinize?

Quite probably, going by the published material. You could be a troll and
not know about it because the mana level is too low, but your
(grand)children might turn into trolls in the 2020s because of the genes
you passed to them.

> I thought that the rise of magic was what actually triggered the
> gene. Why weren't there more outbreaks of goblinization earlier that
> 2010?

Goblinisation took place in 2021, UGE (Unexplained Genetic Expression) was
in 2011. But apart from that, I don't know :)

> There defenatly is enough gene tampering going on right now (1996)

With humans?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't ask me to justify my life.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions -Reply
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:45:37 -0500
>I just had a few questions concerning goblinization.
>
>1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after puberty?
>
>2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not have the
>triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization) If so must the effect
>happen before the individual has gone through puberty?
>

Here is what is known about the Meta-races:
1) Elves and Dwarves are always born that way. You can't "goblinize" into them
after birth.
2) To "goblinize" into an Ork or Troll, you need three things:
a) to inherit the particular genes
b) to be exposed to a high enough magic level (whether it requires chronic
exposure or one brief event is unknown)
c) for the genes to be triggered by the appropirate growth hormones (almost
always at puberty).
3) When the mana level increased, adults often "Goblinized". This happened a
lot
in 2021, but almost never happens now. One can assume that once "b" above
happened, the adult levels of hormones were sufficient to trigger the change, while
people growing up in a mana rich environment change as soon as the adolescent
levels kick in. (one can think of Elves and Dwarves as triggering off of different
growth hormones, ones which are present during fetal development. They
"Goblinize" in the womb)

In my opinion, in order for an adult to goblinize in 2054 they need to have the
gene (or possibly be given it by gene therapy), but must either have lived in a low
magic area for most of his life (very rare) or lacked sufficient hormones during
adolescence (rare but not unheard of. Look up "Penis at Twelve Syndrome")

Also in my opinion, Sam Verner's sister was infected by the vampiric virus, not
the meta gene, although she (and the readers) didn't know what those injections
were at the time.

Given the examples of adults goblinizing in 2021, I would say that if you were
given the Ork or Troll metagene in gene therapy, you would goblinize soon
therafter. Note that the metagenes in question have not been officially discovered
at this time (2057) (but who knows what certain people know...)

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 10
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:19:19 +0000
On 24 Sep 96 at 2:58, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
[artificially activating Goblinization]
> >> Maically? I dunno. Chemically? yes. Sam Verner (Secrets Of Power Trilogy)
> >> was chemically induced into metamorphising into an ork.

> What the H___?
>
> Where did that happen?
> His sister was altered from an Orc into a Wendigo through the HMVVirus, but
> Sam was human throughout the entire series AFAIK.
Calm down. It was Sam's sister who changed, first from a human to an orc
(err.... no, I'm not humanis - from a h.s.sapiens to a h.s.robustus), then
from an orc to a wendigo.

She did have some blurred memories about "kawaru" that seem to impy the
Renraku Exec did trigger it, and somewhere later this is further grounded,
when the exec talks to that spider woman (shaman?).
The change to a wendigo was induced on (how-was-that-island- named-where-the-
japaneese-send-all-metas?) by (I think) a banshee.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 11
From: "Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:19:58 GMT + 2:00
@ I just had a few questions concerning goblinization.
@
@ 1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
@ puberty?

Cases that I can think of only a couple, but those where early in
the current mana cycle.

@ 2 ) Can goblinization be magical indused into a person that does not
@ have the triggering gene (if it is a gene that causes gobinization)
@ If so must the effect happen before the individual has gone through
@ puberty?

First of all, I personally think that all individuals have the
trigger gene, just that in some individuals the gene is recessive. By
the same token it is possible to trigger it. It is known that there
are certain genes that are 'triggered' by enviromental conditions
hence it could be one of those. Additionally there could be links to
the fact that during puberty individuals undergo sever psyciological
and biological changes.

Andre' `the Odd'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.
Message no. 12
From: RAY MACEY <r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Goblinization Questions
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 12:39:43 +1000 (EST)
On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Lynn Twiss wrote:

> I just had a few questions concerning goblinization.
>
> 1 ) Has there been any cases were goblinization has occured after
> puberty?

In Changeling, the Troll (who the story is about) has a family friend that
has a wife and kids, and goblinizes into a Ghoul. So I guess it was afer
puberty.


Ray.

_______________________________________________________________________
| 'The Universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be |
| missed.' |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: n1565842@*******.qut.edu.au or
r.macey@*******.qut.edu.au

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