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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:05:01 2001
Got a conversion question for the panel of those gurus that make their money slipping
through the cracks of Seattle society in the late 2050s...

I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a campaign I'm getting set
to run and wondered if anybody'd made any kind of conversion stats for these nasties?
(D&D for those not in the know but I'm sure you all are...) Would these by any chance
be in the Critters book also?

I'd imagine for a golem one could use the stats for earth elemental if need be, but not
sure what I'd do for the stats or more specifically the spells of a beholder.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wordman)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:15:01 2001
> I'd imagine for a golem one could use the stats for earth
> elemental if need be,

Golems already exist. Look at the rules for Ally spirits, particularly the
bits about creating a body for them. This, technically, is what D&D golems
are.

> but not sure what I'd do for the stats or
> more specifically the spells of a beholder.

The Will O Wisp might not be to far off. That would be a good starting
point. (It is nasty, evil, globular and floats.)
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott W)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:15:05 2001
> I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a
campaign I'm getting set to run and wondered if anybody'd made any
kind of conversion stats for these nasties? (D&D for those not in the
know but I'm sure you all are...) Would these by any chance be in the
Critters book also?

Noooo... they're not in Critters. Not that I know of.

> I'd imagine for a golem one could use the stats for earth elemental
if need be, but not sure what I'd do for the stats or more
specifically the spells of a beholder.

Beholder? Aren't they kind of overpowered in AD&D? Just use the
dragon stats and add ugly :)
As for golems, I think your best bet is to adapt the rules of the
ally spirit... the physical form power is tailormade for that, and
you could use spirit rules for combat. As I recall, in AD&D, you
could make golems with anything from P.E.I. potatoes to lawn gnomes
to AOL diskettes, so using the earth elemental stats and powers might
be off base.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shane/Eleanor/Amy)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:15:09 2001
> I'd imagine for a golem one could use the stats for earth elemental if
need be, but not sure what I'd do for the stats or more specifically the
spells of a beholder.

For a golem, I'd just make a spirit who was bound into a stone (or
clay/flesh/wood/straw) body as per the magic rules for ally spirits.

Shane
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:15:12 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sinabian@***.com>

> Got a conversion question for the panel of those gurus that make their
money slipping through the cracks of Seattle society in the late 2050s...
>
> I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a campaign
I'm getting set to run and wondered if anybody'd made any kind of conversion
stats for these nasties? (D&D for those not in the know but I'm sure you all
are...) Would these by any chance be in the Critters book also?
>

No, beholders aren't in the critter book. Actually, I would suggest you
pick up the 3rd edition Monster Manual and start dividing all attributes
listed in there by 3. The beholder should probably have some additional
initiative dice (to go with its improved initiative feat), and you might try
the following replacements for its eye rays:

Charm Person: Control Thoughts
Charm Monster: Control Body
Sleep: Stun Ball (D)
Flesh to Stone: Petrify (if its still around)
Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
Fear: Control Emotions
Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind
Inflict Moderate Wounds: Mana Bolt (M)
Finger of Death: Mana Bolt (D)
Telekinesis : Levitate

For Golems, I would actually suggest stupid free-spirits inhabiting the
Golem bodies used for familiars in place of the D&D-type golems.

And thank the Gods I'm not a player in your game...
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:25:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott W"

> As for golems, I think your best bet is to adapt the rules of the
> ally spirit... the physical form power is tailormade for that, and
> you could use spirit rules for combat. As I recall, in AD&D, you
> could make golems with anything from P.E.I. potatoes to lawn gnomes
> to AOL diskettes, so using the earth elemental stats and powers might
> be off base.

Chia golems... plush golems... chocolate golems... I had a halfling once
that I was going to give a pathological hatred of cheese (I was going to
make up a story, on the spot, about how some relative was gruesomely killed
in a cheese-related death every time cheese was mentioned in character).
The DM promised that, if I played the character, we would eventually meet a
cheese golem and I'd be able to wail on it for a while.

Yep, and we come up with this sober. No idea how, but we came up with it
sober.

***
Skald-Mark Mjöksiglandi
a.k.a. Nexx
a.k.a. Mark Hall
***
"If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no
light. If I lose paper and ink I will write in blood on forgotten walls. I
will write always. I will capture nights all over the world and bring them
to you."
-Henry Rollins
***
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/index.html
Updated January 16th, 2001
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Guido the Enforcer)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:50:01 2001
Beholders? Not to insult your campaign (it's not my place), but under what
circumstance are you adding beholders?

As for the golems, for some reason it is ringing a bell that somebody
created golem information for their campaign (the ancient Jewish Golem, not
a D&D golem). Have you searched the archive for information?

----- Original Message -----
From: <Sinabian@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: Golems and Beholders


> Got a conversion question for the panel of those gurus that make their
money slipping through the cracks of Seattle society in the late 2050s...
>
> I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a campaign
I'm getting set to run and wondered if anybody'd made any kind of conversion
stats for these nasties? (D&D for those not in the know but I'm sure you all
are...) Would these by any chance be in the Critters book also?
>
> I'd imagine for a golem one could use the stats for earth elemental if
need be, but not sure what I'd do for the stats or more specifically the
spells of a beholder.


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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 16:55:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guido the Enforcer"


> Beholders? Not to insult your campaign (it's not my place), but under
what
> circumstance are you adding beholders?

Hmmm... Genetech experiements, maybe? Remember the "Bloats" mentioned in
Shadowtech?
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 17:15:01 2001
In a message dated 2/7/01 4:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, nexx@********.net
writes:

> Yep, and we come up with this sober. No idea how, but we came up with it
> sober.
>

Oh, not hard. My old AD&D group fought a chocolate dragon once.:-)

John
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 20:10:01 2001
In a message dated 2/7/2001 2:17:54 PM Mountain Standard Time,
see_scott_run@*****.com writes:

> Beholder? Aren't they kind of overpowered in AD&D? Just use the
> dragon stats and add ugly :)
> As for golems, I think your best bet is to adapt the rules of the
> ally spirit... the physical form power is tailormade for that, and
> you could use spirit rules for combat. As I recall, in AD&D, you
> could make golems with anything from P.E.I. potatoes to lawn gnomes
> to AOL diskettes, so using the earth elemental stats and powers might
> be off base.

Hrmmm...AOL diskettes...glad they'd be useful for SOMETHING! ::grinz:: Thanks
to everybody for the tremendous response I've gotten to this post so far. I'm
only halfway through my mail at this point but the suggestions to use the
ally spirit rules are not only helpful but they seem to be bloody well
unanimous! ; )~
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 20:15:01 2001
In a message dated 2/7/2001 2:21:11 PM Mountain Standard Time,
nexx@********.net writes:

> No, beholders aren't in the critter book. Actually, I would suggest you
> pick up the 3rd edition Monster Manual and start dividing all attributes
> listed in there by 3. The beholder should probably have some additional
> initiative dice (to go with its improved initiative feat), and you might
try
> the following replacements for its eye rays:
>
> Charm Person: Control Thoughts
> Charm Monster: Control Body
> Sleep: Stun Ball (D)
> Flesh to Stone: Petrify (if its still around)
> Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
> Fear: Control Emotions
> Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind
> Inflict Moderate Wounds: Mana Bolt (M)
> Finger of Death: Mana Bolt (D)
> Telekinesis : Levitate


That seems like it would work really well. Thanks.
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 20:20:01 2001
In a message dated 2/7/2001 2:52:17 PM Mountain Standard Time,
GuidoEnforce@*****.com writes:

> Beholders? Not to insult your campaign (it's not my place), but under what
> circumstance are you adding beholders?


Mainly because they'd be unexpected. I'm putting in an NPC who's a very
powerful sorcerer who's going to send the runners through a portal to collect
various items from different worlds (ie - ghost rock from Deadlands) and when
they bring these items back he's going to use them to cast a spell that will
open a door for the Horrors. Then it gets REALLY ugly...; )~
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 20:20:04 2001
In reference to the why beholders question I forgot to include the actual
answer...pretty damn effective security measures! Kind of like the
beholder-kinda thing from Big Trouble In Little China.
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 20:50:01 2001
On 2/7/01 4:10 pm, Nexx said:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Sinabian@***.com>
>
>> Got a conversion question for the panel of those gurus that make their
>money slipping through the cracks of Seattle society in the late 2050s...
>>
>> I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a campaign
>I'm getting set to run and wondered if anybody'd made any kind of conversion
>stats for these nasties? (D&D for those not in the know but I'm sure you all
>are...) Would these by any chance be in the Critters book also?
>>
>
>No, beholders aren't in the critter book. Actually, I would suggest you
>pick up the 3rd edition Monster Manual and start dividing all attributes
>listed in there by 3. The beholder should probably have some additional
>initiative dice (to go with its improved initiative feat), and you might try
>the following replacements for its eye rays:
>
>Charm Person: Control Thoughts
>Charm Monster: Control Body
>Sleep: Stun Ball (D)
>Flesh to Stone: Petrify (if its still around)

Yes it's still there

>Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)

Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There really
isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?

>Fear: Control Emotions
>Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind


How about Decrease Reflexes or Decrease Quickness for this one?

>Inflict Moderate Wounds: Mana Bolt (M)
>Finger of Death: Mana Bolt (D)

Laser would work here as well.

>Telekinesis : Levitate

I'm not sure about how much the Beholder can lift but Magic Fingers may
be the more appropriate spell for this



The problem you're going to run into with this is that this will be
nowhere near as effective as a D&D Beholder because of Drain. The
Beholder in D&D can use each eye once each round, Even considering a D&D
Round to Be a Full Combat turn the Beholder can use multiple eyestalks
each combat pass. It's going to need an ungodly Will and Sourcery to
resist all that drain. Of course there are some Critter Powers that
replicate some of these and I don't think all of them result in Drain so
that could help somewhat.

>
>For Golems, I would actually suggest stupid free-spirits inhabiting the
>Golem bodies used for familiars in place of the D&D-type golems.
>
>And thank the Gods I'm not a player in your game...
>

Steve
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (LPVOID)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 21:50:01 2001
> >Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
>
> Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There really
> isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
> Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?
<snip>
So why not bring back Turn to Goo? Why was it taken out anyway? I always
loved that one... Give me your NERPs or I turn you into a gelatinous blob!

lpvoid
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 22:20:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Collins"

> >Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
>
> Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There really
> isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
> Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?

I can see where you're coming from on it, but like you said, there isn't
really any good one... Power Bolt was the best of a lot of Bad Options.
Ignite didn't feel right, simply because Disintergrate doesn't really have a
flame effect.

> >Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind
>
> How about Decrease Reflexes or Decrease Quickness for this one?

Good suggestion. Forgot about those.

> >Finger of Death: Mana Bolt (D)
>
> Laser would work here as well.

True, but I wanted to keep it as a Mana spell, since Finger of Death doesn't
do anything against the non-living.

> >Telekinesis : Levitate
>
> I'm not sure about how much the Beholder can lift but Magic Fingers may
> be the more appropriate spell for this

They can lift a significant amount... 325#
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Wed Feb 7 22:25:00 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "LPVOID"

> > Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There really
> > isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
> > Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?
> <snip>
> So why not bring back Turn to Goo? Why was it taken out anyway? I always
> loved that one... Give me your NERPs or I turn you into a gelatinous
blob!

Really, there isn't too much of a canonical reason it can't be back... its
basically a different version of Ignite... rather than speeding up the
molecules of the target, it disrupts them.
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 06:20:00 2001
According to Sinabian@***.com, on Wed, 07 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> I'm wanting to put some golems and maybe a beholder or two in a campaign
> I'm getting set to run and wondered if anybody'd made any kind of
> conversion stats for these nasties? (D&D for those not in the know but I'm
> sure you all are...) Would these by any chance be in the Critters book
> also?

Neither of these is in the Critters book, unless you mean the D&D Monster
Manual :) Conversion shouldn't be too difficult, IMHO -- dividing the stats
by 3 should be rough guide (though you may need to toughen up the critter
a bit), and conversion of their spells is also not very hard by simply
picking an equivalent SR spell; if you can't find an equivalent, just look
up the D&D spell description and design an SR version using MITS.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
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Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 06:20:04 2001
According to Nexx, on Wed, 07 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> Charm Person: Control Thoughts
> Charm Monster: Control Body
> Sleep: Stun Ball (D)
> Flesh to Stone: Petrify (if its still around)
> Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
> Fear: Control Emotions

How about the Fear power?

> Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind

You could use the Bind spell for this one. Not exactly the same, but it has
a similar(ish) effect.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
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Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 08:45:01 2001
with the Beholder...

What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?

Cash
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 10:35:02 2001
On 2/8/01 8:45 am, GuayII@***.com said:

>with the Beholder...
>
>What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?
>
>Cash
>
>

Give it the Initiated Power of Shielding which only works in LOS and
would pretty easily replicate this.

Steve
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 13:40:01 2001
According to GuayII@***.com, on Thu, 08 Feb 2001 the word on the street
was...

> with the Beholder...
>
> What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?

It could be done by turning that area into a void (per Target: UCAS; I can't
seem to find it in MITS) with a rating equal to, say, one-half the
beholder's Essence.

Or, for a simpler way, subtract the beholder's Essence from any magic's
Force rating when it's in the frontal quarter of the beholder. Say the
critter has an Essence of 6, that way you'd need at least Force 7 magic
(spells, items, etc.) to get anything done.

This would be problematic for spirits, though, so perhaps an opposed test
between the spirit's Force and the beholder's Essence would be a good idea,
the spirit's Force being reduced by the beholder's net successes for as
long as it remains in the area. If the Force goes to or below 0, the spirit
either is immediately banished, or can't act at all (at the GM's option).

That test could be made for all magic, but IMHO it would cause too much
dice-rolling when you have to check for every spell, every magic item, and
every spirit -- every turn...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
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Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Augustus)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 13:50:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <GuayII@***.com>


> with the Beholder...
>
> What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?

Since I don't have MitS anymore I can't say for sure... but wasn't there a
spell that was called something like "Astral Static"

If not, you could come up with something like "Mass Confusion" that only
adds T# penalties to spellcasting.

Or, come up with something that creates a temporary high background count.

Augustus
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Augustus)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 13:50:04 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>


According to Nexx, on Wed, 07 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> Slow: Ironically, the only one that doesn't immediately come to mind

You could use the Bind spell for this one. Not exactly the same, but it has
a similar(ish) effect.

Or use "decrease attribute: quickness", or come up with a 3rd edition
"Decrease Reflexes" that removes d6 from initiative.

Augustus
Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 14:50:01 2001
On Wed, 7 Feb 01 22:01:11 -0500
Steve Collins <einan@*********.net> wrote:

> >Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)
>
> Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There really
> isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
> Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?

Actually, Powerbolt does give you the appropriate effect. It
doesn't use any elements, and the description doesn't specify how the
damage is caused. You could say thay on the Beholder's case, if the
target dies from this attack he is disintegrated: nothing is left, he
disappears.

> The problem you're going to run into with this is that this will be
> nowhere near as effective as a D&D Beholder because of Drain. The
> Beholder in D&D can use each eye once each round, Even considering a D&D
> Round to Be a Full Combat turn the Beholder can use multiple eyestalks
> each combat pass. It's going to need an ungodly Will and Sourcery to
> resist all that drain. Of course there are some Critter Powers that
> replicate some of these and I don't think all of them result in Drain so
> that could help somewhat.

Well, it seems to me that in the chapter about Spirits and
Dragons in the basic rulebook there's a power named Innate Spell (or
something like that). The critter with this power can cast one spell at
a Force equal to its Essence, and since it's innate magic, there's no
Drain. I don't remember the exact rules, but you could give your
beholder several Innate Spells to mimic his powers.


>

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Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 19:25:04 2001
On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:45:55 EST GuayII@***.com writes:
> with the Beholder...
>
> What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?

Pick up Aztlan SB and read up on Fovae.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Thu Feb 8 19:25:17 2001
On Wed, 7 Feb 01 22:01:11 -0500 Steve Collins <einan@*********.net>
writes:
<SNIP>
> >Disintegrate: Power Bolt (Deadly Damage)

> Turn to Goo would have been perfect for this but it's gone, There
> really
> isn;t a good direct corelation for this but I get more of a Damaging
>
> Manipulation feel from Disintigrate, maybe Ignite?
<SNIP>

It's unnecessary. One of the things that makes Disintegrate so nasty in
comparison to spell-of-all-HP-removal in D&D is that Disintegrate leaves
no body for use with Ressurection. Since there is no Ressurection spell
in SR, any instant death spell should be good enough.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Fri Feb 9 02:30:01 2001
Gurth writes:

> > What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?
>
> It could be done by turning that area into a void (per Target: UCAS; I can't
> seem to find it in MITS) with a rating equal to, say, one-half the
> beholder's Essence.

There is a Magic Resistance Critter Power IIRC.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Version: 3.12
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M-- V- PS+ PE(-) Y+>++ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) !tv(--) b+ DI+++@
D G+ e++>++++$ h(*) r++ y-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Fri Feb 9 05:55:05 2001
According to Damion Milliken, on Fri, 09 Feb 2001 the word on the street
was...

> > > What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?
> >
> > It could be done by turning that area into a void (per Target: UCAS; I can't
> > seem to find it in MITS) with a rating equal to, say, one-half the
> > beholder's Essence.
>
> There is a Magic Resistance Critter Power IIRC.

There used to be, in PAoE (page 134). It got cut in Critters, though, and
at any rate this power would protect the critter from magic by giving it
extra dice to resist. OTOH, a beholder's anti-magic ray stops all use of
magic in the affected area.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Michael S. Bobroff)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Fri Feb 9 11:35:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <GuayII@***.com>


> with the Beholder...
>
> What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?
>
> Cash

You could view it as being the reverse of Aid
Sorcery ... it removes dice from the any spells
cast within range ... though it is also like a
dice pool, it only renews at the beginning of the
turn and is used up quickly ...

I would give the Beholder twice their essence
attribute in Aid (Detract Sorcery) ...
For range ... limit it to 20 x (Essence) in meters

-Mike
Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Fri Feb 9 13:05:06 2001
On 2/9/01 11:47 am, Michael S. Bobroff said:

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <GuayII@***.com>
>
>
>> with the Beholder...
>>
>> What about his anti-magic gaze (main eye)?
>>
>> Cash
>
>You could view it as being the reverse of Aid
>Sorcery ... it removes dice from the any spells
>cast within range ... though it is also like a
>dice pool, it only renews at the beginning of the
>turn and is used up quickly ...
>
>I would give the Beholder twice their essence
>attribute in Aid (Detract Sorcery) ...
>For range ... limit it to 20 x (Essence) in meters
>
>-Mike
>
>
>


What about the power that the Nimue's Salamander from PAOE has, it has a
magic dampening field around it. I just can't seem to find my copy of it
laying around here at the moment to see what the power was called.
Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Golems and Beholders
Date: Sat Feb 10 06:15:01 2001
According to Michael S. Bobroff, on Fri, 09 Feb 2001 the word on the street was...

> You could view it as being the reverse of Aid
> Sorcery ... it removes dice from the any spells
> cast within range ... though it is also like a
> dice pool, it only renews at the beginning of the
> turn and is used up quickly ...

IMHO, it'd work better as a power that's always on (as long as the
beholder's main eye is open) and doesn't depend on dice pool-like
mechanics. I have a feeling this is a critter that'll be fairly easy to
kill by application of firepower, so let's not make it too weak :)

> I would give the Beholder twice their essence
> attribute in Aid (Detract Sorcery) ...
> For range ... limit it to 20 x (Essence) in meters

In D&D, the range is 150 feet, so if the idea is to keep the SR beholder as
close to the original as possible, then 10 meters x Essence would be a
better figure (assuming an Essence of 6, as that would give a range of 60
meters, or about 180 feet).

OTOH, this could prove too easy to get round, since SR has a lot more
unlimited-range, LOS combat spells than D&D does, so 20 x Essence could
work better -- or even extend the power to LOS...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
My ocular organs!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

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