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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrun)
Subject: good and evil
Date: Sat Sep 15 10:15:01 2001
okay personlly i would like to say thanks for all of your
inputs ,my motive to write defense of the devil was to get
you to think

to the people that think violence is the only option ,
please remember people like ghandi , martin luther king jr.
, nelson mandela (recently) and others , violence is not
the only option it is simply the way some people decide to
do things , i cannot remember exactly who said it but here
goes " violence cannot build only destroy " so what do you
want to destroy and what can you no longer build once you
have destroyed that

as a student of history i know that perspective is
everything , you can be taught by one regime that some event
carved freedom for a new nation , and by another regime that
that event supressed the freedom of other nations , but
timing and perspective are everything ,

I use quotes by Sun-Tzu as he was not only a general but a
philosopher who analysed war and recognised that war is the
way nations resolved conflict when all other channels are
exhausted

okay i believe we need to discuss military targets , it is
cruel to attack a nations populace at large , in their homes
and places of work , it is stupidity to attack one of the
best equiped and trained professionl armies in the world ,
attacking men who are as prepared to die as the terrorists
(sometimes) , with better training , on their home ground ,
when your own force is little more than a privately trained
security company with weapons that are outdated , tactics
which are questionable are your only recourse

when americans money supported sein fein the IRA were
attacking military targets , bands of teenage boy cadets ,
retired war heroes sometimes crippled and in their 60s , but
these people were military , subways and the like were fair
game too, when america supported the ANC in their endeavours
to liberate South Africa did they check that the ANC blew up
restuarants , homes , nightclubs , farms, that they placed
car bombs outside of municipal structures , that police
officers where killed for little more than the uniform they
were wearing and the gun they carried , that mines were
placed on public roads for the off chance that they would
hit a military target instead of a civilian car ,that black
youths opened fire on school buses of children simply
because they were white , i somehow doubt it , but if it did
why did it not stop funding

as americans your decisions to support terrorism in that era
made it a more acceptable avenue for (not) addressing
grievances , you have in a way supported the fact that ,
terrorism has become as popular with the supressed fanatic
as it is today , it is tragic that life was lost, so that
you could see that you, for a while ,supported vile fear
tactics and force that maybe american decisions to combat
terrorism are too late and why do you join , not because of
moral justice or high ground but because you too have become
victims of the monster you once fed

violence solves nothing , it destroys , it can never build ,
it doesn't even bring your loved ones back , it cannot beat
the WTC back into shape , you cannot shoot a wounded person
to heal them , all it proves is that you lack the patience
to try to solve things peacably , i will agree that
sometimes it is the only way , but america hasn't even tried
anything else , it is all too easy to plunge the world into
a bloodbath of death and war , you have preached to warring
factions for years to solve their problem without violence ,
now it comes to you and "dis net skop ,skiet en donder"
(loses a lot in translation but " its only kick ,shoot and
beat-up")

now for the real question to all those flag wavers out there

what civil liberties are you prepared to forfeit so that
your government can track down these terrorists ? presumably
you are going to give these people a fair trail and a chance
to defend themselves ,and their actions , which law would
you try them on yours or their own ? would you accept that
if you are called a terrorist that the military would pound
down your door with the supression of your rights ? that
they could kidnap you for trial in a foreign land ? or if
you resist and bear arms that they could shoot you ? that
your crimes are judged simply by death toll and not proof of
guilt ? are you innocent until proven guilty ? or guilty
simply by association ? ask yourself now what liberties you
would surrender and remember that everyone could be called
fanatical about something , say freedom of speech

KANNIEMEERNIE korperaal , military pacifist
"those who are ready to die can be killed
those intent on living can be captured
those quick to anger can be shamed
those who are puritanical can be disgraced
those who love people can be troubled"
5 traits dangerous for generals - SUN-TZU

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.