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Message no. 1
From: "Bruce A. Hunt" <bhunt@******.NET>
Subject: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:03:26 -0400
If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
points for Good Karma?

By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.

Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
I'd certainly appreciate it.

Bruce A. Hunt
bhunt@******.net
Message no. 2
From: Jonas Bolander <Jonas.Bolander@****.SE>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:16:05 +0200
On Jun 25, 10:03am, EXT AVS; \Bruce A. Hunt\ wrote:
> Subject: GOOD KARMA
> If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
> Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
> points for Good Karma?
>
> By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
> 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
>
> Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
> I'd certainly appreciate it.

As I have understood it : every tenth Karma you earn goes into your characters
Karma Pool (used for extra dice) and Karma no. 1-9 becomes Good Karma (used to
improve stats and skills). At least that's what I use in my campaign.

/Jonas Bolander


--
Jonas Bolander
Message no. 3
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:17:15 EDT
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:03:26 -0400 "Bruce A. Hunt" <bhunt@******.NET>
writes:
<<If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is
10% Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to
get any points for Good Karma?>>


All depends on how you interpret that. I always ruled that your Karma
Pool was simply equal to one tenth of your total Good Karma, minus
anything burned. The Companion says that it means that every eleventh
Karma point goes into Karma Pool (no, that's not what the Big Black Book
says, even so...). And Big Black seems to say that every tenth winds up
in your pool.


<<By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma,
i.e. 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.>>


Actually, you'd need at least 9. Because you round up, instead of to the
nearest whole number, that 5.4 remains a 6.


<<Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten
me, I'd certainly appreciate it.>>


Well, I hope I've managed to help out, at least a little bit.


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 4
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:25:14 -0600
Bruce A. Hunt wrote:
|
| If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
| Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
| points for Good Karma?
|
| By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
| 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
|
| Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
| I'd certainly appreciate it.

Here's the easy way to do it (a house rule BTW). Keep track of the
PCs total karma. For every 10 points of karma they've earned over
time, they have 1 point in their karma pool (plus starting karma
(usually 1 point), minus KP burned to save their butts, and minus KP
contributed to the group/team karma pool). So if a PC has earned a
total of 78 karma over time, his karma pool would be at 8. And, it
doesn't matter whether or not he's spent any or all of that 78 points
of karma to increase skills/stats/spells/whatever, his karma pool
would still be at 8.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:25:03 EST
> If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma
> is 10% Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma
> award to get any points for Good Karma?

My group works it as Karma EVER. So for every 10 Good Karma given to
you.....in however many pieces, you get 9 Good And 1 Karma Pool.

<house rule>
(Of course, I'm nice, and like round numbers, so I give them 10 and
1. It makes bookkeeping cleaner.)
</house rule>
Message no. 6
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:36:43 GMT
Generally the accepted method is that for every 10 points of good
karma characters recieve they get one point of kamra pool. ie 1in 11
points from their total awards is pool and the rest are good. Ignore
references to any other sort of karma, they mean 'good' the stuff you
use to improve characters unless they explicitly say 'pool' the stuff
you use for rerolls. The companion tried to clear this up but somehow
its dead easy in practice and once you work it out but defies an easy
explanation on paper

Mark
Message no. 7
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:43:09 -0500
At 10:03 AM 6/25/97 -0400, Bruce A. Hunt whispered:
>If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
>Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
>points for Good Karma?

Keep a running total of Karma your character has (you use this total to
determine your reputation). Each time the total goes over a multiple of
10, one point goes into your Karma Pool.

Your first run you get 6 Karma, your Total Karma is 6 and your Good Karma
is 6. Next run, you get 7 Karma points: Total Karma goes to 13, your
Karma Pool goes up by one (because you went by 10), your Good Karma is now
12 (one of your seven new Karma Points went to your Karma Pool leaving you
with 6 points to add to your original 6 points of Good Karma).



-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
Thomas's World is http://telltale.hart.org -- come visit!

"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible. However, it should take me only
about ten seconds."
-Bryce Lynch, Max Headroom [ep. "Lost Tapes"]
Message no. 8
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:24:19 -0600
Quoth Jonas Bolander:
>
> On Jun 25, 10:03am, EXT AVS; \Bruce A. Hunt\ wrote:
> > Subject: GOOD KARMA
> > If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
> > Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
> > points for Good Karma?
> >
> > By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
> > 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
> >
> > Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
> > I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
> As I have understood it : every tenth Karma you earn goes into your characters
> Karma Pool (used for extra dice) and Karma no. 1-9 becomes Good Karma (used to
> improve stats and skills). At least that's what I use in my campaign.

This is the way we've always interpreted it as well. If a player
has 65 total karma earned, they should have a karma pool of 6 (+
starting point(s)) and have 59 points available throughout play for
increasing/learning skills/spells/attributes etc. The point that goes
into the pool would be the 10th, 20th, 30th, etc. It's just simpler to
do it this way and easy to calculate backwards what pools should be.

A couple years ago, on either this list or on rec.games.frp.cyber, I
got into a huge discussion on this very topic with one Ivy Ryan. She was
determined to make everyone read the rule like this: a tenth of all karma
earned goes into the pool, always rounding up (or something like that).
The way she used it worked like this: if you earned 4 points of karma
during a session, you got 4 good karma and 1 point in your karma pool.
She always rounded up when working with karma, so her players always
had huge karma pools without much earned karma. Noone else invloved
was capable of reading the rules like this so it turned into a bit of
a flamewar, sad to say.

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
Message no. 9
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:48:21 -0400
At 10:03 AM 6/25/97 -0400, Bruce A. Hunt wrote these timeless words:
>If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
>Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
>points for Good Karma?
>
>By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
>6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
>
>Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
>I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
Well, for one, I think you have it backwards... Good karma is your basic
run of the mill Karma... This is what you get every adventure... Karma
Pool is what you get 10% of...

You don't really calculate it on a per/award basis...

YOu calculate it on a tota; scale... ths, every 10th point of Karma goes
to your Good Pool. This means you might not get any Good Karma for several
adventures, but even if you are only netting 2 or 3 points of Good Karma,
you WILL get some...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

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Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:03:20 +0100
|
|If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
|Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
|points for Good Karma?
|
|By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
|6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
|
|Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
|I'd certainly appreciate it.

Good karma is a VERY powerful and valued thing.
The split IS correct the way you posted it...

(And is that way to allow smooth character progression without unbalancing
the game....)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:07:07 +0100
> Good karma is a VERY powerful and valued thing.
> The split IS correct the way you posted it...
>
> (And is that way to allow smooth character progression without unbalancing
> the game....)

It is no longer corrrect... IMHO..
read the shadowrun companion... the percentages are no longer
rounded, as soon as you receive 10 karma points, one goes to the
karma pool... you don't have to recieve the 10 points in one piece..

ss
Message no. 12
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:26:15 +0100
|
|> Good karma is a VERY powerful and valued thing.
|> The split IS correct the way you posted it...
|>
|> (And is that way to allow smooth character progression without unbalancing
|> the game....)
|
|It is no longer corrrect... IMHO..
|read the shadowrun companion...

Nope.
One book I'm not getting.

Besides, the companion is full of OPTIONAL rules, not rules changes.

So the old mix still stands....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:32:03 +0100
> |It is no longer corrrect... IMHO..
> |read the shadowrun companion...
>
> Nope.
> One book I'm not getting.
>
> Besides, the companion is full of OPTIONAL rules, not rules changes.
>
> So the old mix still stands....
>
well, any rule is a optional rule. Take it or leave it, you are free
to ignore any rule that does not fit into your game, or think of any
number of house rules, but...
The good karma rule is no optional rule. Its a Fasa standard-rule.

ss
Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:42:41 +0100
|well, any rule is a optional rule. Take it or leave it, you are free
|to ignore any rule that does not fit into your game, or think of any
|number of house rules, but...
|The good karma rule is no optional rule. Its a Fasa standard-rule.

I was under the impression that the Shadowrun Companion SAID that all rules
within its pages were considered optional....

(Someone else please clarify....)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:50:43 -0600
Quoth Spike:
>
> |
> |If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
> |Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
> |points for Good Karma?
> |
> |By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
> |6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
> |
> |Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
> |I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
> Good karma is a VERY powerful and valued thing.
> The split IS correct the way you posted it...

Does anyone have the black book handy? I can't remember if it states 10%
or one tenth. There's quite a large difference between the two, as one
tenth is one in ten and 10% is a variable amount depending upon the total.

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
Message no. 16
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:16:39 +0000
On 25 Jun 97 at 20:42, Spike wrote:

> I was under the impression that the Shadowrun Companion SAID that all rules
> within its pages were considered optional....
>
> (Someone else please clarify....)
>
> --

Not that I can remember; there are a lot of optional rules in there
though, but they are clearly stated. One example of something that is
not listed as optional is the new skill web.

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
Message no. 17
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:15:57 EST
> |The good karma rule is no optional rule. Its a Fasa standard-rule.
>
> I was under the impression that the Shadowrun Companion SAID that
> all rules within its pages were considered optional....
>
> (Someone else please clarify....)

It is listed as a "Rules clarification", so I wouldn't consider it
optional....

I thought one change from SRI to SRII was that it was no longer a
percentage, but 1 for every 10....
Message no. 18
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:52:07 -0700
---Mike Loseke wrote:
>
> Does anyone have the black book handy? I can't remember if it
states 10%
> or one tenth. There's quite a large difference between the two, as
one
> tenth is one in ten and 10% is a variable amount depending upon the
total.

BBB, page 191:
"Of the Karma a character gets, 90 percent of it becomes Good Karma,
which is used over the long term for improving the character. Ten
percent goes into the character's Karma Pool, which is used in the
short term for general butt-saving. A character's Good Karma and Karma
Pool are tracked seperately. Always round off in favor of Good Karma."

BBB, page 192:
"One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's
Karma Pool."

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 19
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:01:37 -0600
Quoth Loki:
>
> ---Mike Loseke wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have the black book handy? I can't remember if it
> states 10%
> > or one tenth. There's quite a large difference between the two, as
> one
> > tenth is one in ten and 10% is a variable amount depending upon the
> total.
>
> BBB, page 191:
> "Of the Karma a character gets, 90 percent of it becomes Good Karma,
> which is used over the long term for improving the character. Ten
> percent goes into the character's Karma Pool, which is used in the
> short term for general butt-saving. A character's Good Karma and Karma
> Pool are tracked seperately. Always round off in favor of Good Karma."
>
> BBB, page 192:
> "One-tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes into the character's
> Karma Pool."

Thanks. Using p.191 rules, if I receive 6 points of karma after a
session, I have 1 point to go into my karma pool and 6 points for good
karma (5.4 rounded up is 6). Hmm, something's not quite right here.
This is contradictory to the part on p.192 that says one tenth. One-
tenth is not the same as one-sixth. I think I'll stay with the old
method of using every tenth point for the pool. It's very linear and
isn't unbalancing as this way certainly can be.

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
Message no. 20
From: Adam Wise <dodger@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:42:55 -0500
At 01:50 PM 6/25/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Quoth Spike:
>>
>> |
>> |If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
>> |Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get
any
>> |points for Good Karma?
>> |
>> |By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
>> |6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
>> |
>> |Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
>> |I'd certainly appreciate it.
>>
>> Good karma is a VERY powerful and valued thing.
>> The split IS correct the way you posted it...
>
> Does anyone have the black book handy? I can't remember if it states 10%
>or one tenth. There's quite a large difference between the two, as one
>tenth is one in ten and 10% is a variable amount depending upon the total.

The way its stated in SR2 is "One tenth (round up) of all Karma earned goes
into the character's Karma Pool." (p. 191). I've never used it this way
myself, but by how this rule reads, it says that *every* time karma is
earned, some of it will go to the karma pool. Because even though 2*.1=.2
when you round up, you get 1, meaning that 1 point goes to good karma, and
one point goes to the karma pool.

I personally like the way its stated in the Companion much better, with one
out of every ten karma going to the karma pool, being as it leads to a much
smaller karma pool.

Later,

Adam Wise

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."
--Dennis Miller
Message no. 21
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:30:59 +0200
At 10:03 AM 25-06-97 -0400, you wrote:
>If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
>Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
>points for Good Karma?
>
>By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
>6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
>
>Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
>I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
Perhaps you should do as I do and keep a running total of total Karma earned
and steal one towards the Karma pool for every 10 earned. Just a thought.
>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
Message no. 22
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 03:26:35 -0500
I've always done karma like this: You have 3 headings on the character sheet
for karma. "Karma Pool", "Total Earned Good Karma", and "Current
Good
Karma". The Shadowrun companion explains that the 11th, 21st, 31st, 41st,
etc karma goes into the characters karma pool. Say for example Character X
has earned 20 karma over his the course of his Shadowrunning carrer... Lets
say however Player X has bought various skills, spells, stats, whatever
using some of this karma and he currently has only 4 points. We always
played that the next point he earns goes into his karma pool since it is his
21st earned karma.

Hope this message helped...
John Dukes




"Why does a knife cost as much as a grenade in this game?"
-My Brother
Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100
Bruce A. Hunt said on 10:03/25 Jun 97...

> If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is 10%
> Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to get any
> points for Good Karma?
>
> By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma, i.e.
> 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.

You're mixing up the names here -- 10% of the Karma award goes to the
Karma Pool, while the remaining 90% becomes Good Karma. With that cleared
up, the amount that goes into the Pool is rounded up, so if you take the
rules literally they say that if you get 1 point of Karma for an
adventure, that becomes Karma Pool: 10% of 1 is .1, which rounds up to 1;
if you get 2 Karma, 1 would go to the Pool and 1 to Good Karma; and so on.

However, if you ask me the intention is to make the Karma Pool equal to
10% of the _total_ Karma the character has been awarded, rounded up. That
changes matters somewhat, and makes more sense.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100
Mike Loseke said on 9:24/25 Jun 97...

> A couple years ago, on either this list or on rec.games.frp.cyber, I
> got into a huge discussion on this very topic with one Ivy Ryan.

The infamous Ivy... That name still strikes fear in the hearts of some
old-timers ;)

> She was determined to make everyone read the rule like this:

She was determined to make everyone read the rules as they are printed,
since SR was supposed to be the most perfectest game system ever written,
according to her.

> a tenth of all karma earned goes into the pool, always rounding up (or
> something like that). The way she used it worked like this: if you
> earned 4 points of karma during a session, you got 4 good karma and 1
> point in your karma pool. She always rounded up when working with karma,
> so her players always had huge karma pools without much earned karma.

Not to mention she had characters with 1100+ Karma, IIRC. However, I was
later told by someone who'd discussed these with a friend of Ivy (who,
incidentally, was also on this list last summer or so (the friend, that
is)), that she had this habit of converting characters from one system to
another and keeping their experience. Exactly how she did this, I don't
know, but I got the impression she had (has?) a bunch of characters she's
taken through all systems she's ever played...

</reminiscing>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100
Brett Borger said on 10:25/25 Jun 97...

> > If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma
> > is 10% Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma
> > award to get any points for Good Karma?
>
> My group works it as Karma EVER. So for every 10 Good Karma given to
> you.....in however many pieces, you get 9 Good And 1 Karma Pool.

If you ask me, that's the way SRII intends that rule to be used. However,
the wording is vague enough to make it very easy to read it as putting 10%
(rounded up) of _each_award_ into the Karma Pool. There's a big
difference there, since you're going to have a HUGE Karma Pool and very
little Good Karma if you take 10% (rounded up) off every award and place
it in the Karma Pool.

It's a lot easier to keep track of the total amount of Karma awarded, and
simply divide that by 10 and round up, then add 1 (or 2 for metahumans)
to that. Joe Human with 63 Karma would have a Karma Pool of 7 that way: 63
/ 10 + 1 = 6.3 + 1 = 7.3, rounded up to 8.

> <house rule>
> (Of course, I'm nice, and like round numbers, so I give them 10 and
> 1. It makes bookkeeping cleaner.)
> </house rule>

This is the rule from the Companion, which seems to suggest FASA Mike
failed math in high school ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:36:38 +0100
Bull said on 12:48/25 Jun 97...

> YOu calculate it on a tota; scale... ths, every 10th point of Karma goes
> to your Good Pool. This means you might not get any Good Karma for several
> adventures, but even if you are only netting 2 or 3 points of Good Karma,
> you WILL get some...

Actually going by SRII it's the other way round: every _first_ point
goes to Karma Pool, then nine that don't. My reason for saying this is
that SRII states on page 191 to round the 10% up, not down.

The Companion, though, turns it around (and adds in some weird math) by
stating that after every ten points, the next (i.e. eleventh) point goes
into the Karma Pool.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 27
From: woneal@*******.NET
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:35:17 -0005
On 25 Jun 97 at 10:03, Bruce A. Hunt wrote:

> If Normal Karma from an adventure is 90% Rounded Up, and Good Karma is
> 10% Rounded Down, wouldn't you need an exceedingly large Karma award to
> get any points for Good Karma?
>
> By my calculations, you'd need at least 6 points to get 1 good Karma,
> i.e. 6*.9=5.4 points which round to 5, leaving 1 Good Karma.
>
> Perhaps I've miscomprehended the system. If anyone could enlighten me,
> I'd certainly appreciate it.
>
> Bruce A. Hunt
> bhunt@******.net

I couldn't find the specific post but I believe Mike Mulvihill may have
answered this question already (might have been Steve Kenson, like I said,
can't find the exact posting). Anyway, what was said was essentially
this. Of the good karma you earn, every 10th point goes into the Karma
pool. That's what was intended by the original rules (even if the way
it's written it doesn't quite work out that way). Hope that helps.
--

Ashlocke
(woneal@*******.net)

"We shall never be able to remove suspicion and fear
as potential causes of war until communication is
permitted to flow, free and open, across international
boundries." -- Harry S. Truman
Message no. 28
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:12:49 -0500
On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Mike Loseke said on 9:24/25 Jun 97...
>
>> A couple years ago, on either this list or on rec.games.frp.cyber,
>I got into a huge discussion on this very topic with one Ivy Ryan.
>
>The infamous Ivy... That name still strikes fear in the hearts of some
>old-timers ;)

<Shudder> <smirk>

>She was determined to make everyone read the rules as they are
>printed, since SR was supposed to be the most perfectest game system
ever
>written, according to her.

Yes, Ivy... The one person on this list that was able to make Myself and
Professor Amburgey (is he still around, I wonder?) Look like house rule
nutsos.....

She was a lot of fun to talk to, but the prototypical "Rules Judge" (Kind
of like a "rules lawyer", but somehow got promoted to Gamemaster for
some poor souls.)
Ever notice how most strict B-T-B Gamers are Lawyers and/or min/maxers?
Oh, well.... I suppose most of us have a little munchkin inside that we
either put to death after we quit playing T$R's old stuff, or is still
hatching a plot to get out. (Likely involving dikote, a cybermanced
Vampiric Dragon and Lots of Exploding FAB APDS bullets <smirk>.)

Just My Two Pence.
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
Message no. 29
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:50:31 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-26 20:32:32 EDT, spamquat@****.COM (Joshua T Brown)
writes:

<< Ever notice how most strict B-T-B Gamers are Lawyers and/or min/maxers?
Oh, well.... I suppose most of us have a little munchkin inside that we
either put to death after we quit playing T$R's old stuff, or is still
hatching a plot to get out. (Likely involving dikote, a cybermanced
Vampiric Dragon and Lots of Exploding FAB APDS bullets <smirk>.)
>>

Nah, they just evolve into incredibly sadistic GM's with WAY to much
subconscious assistance from somewhere....
-Keith
Message no. 30
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 03:12:51 EDT
On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>Not to mention she had characters with 1100+ Karma, IIRC. However, I was
>later told by someone who'd discussed these with a friend of Ivy (who,
incidentally, was also >on this list last summer or so (the friend,
>that is)), that she had this habit of converting characters from one
system to
>another and keeping their experience. Exactly how she did this, I don't
>know, but I got the impression she had (has?) a bunch of characters he's
>taken through all systems she's ever played...

<huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>

Boy, she must have been one *creative* person...

</huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>

(or maybe... obsessive?)

~Tim
Message no. 31
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:20:15 -0600
Quoth Tim Cooper:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:46:20 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>
> >Not to mention she had characters with 1100+ Karma, IIRC. However, I was
> >later told by someone who'd discussed these with a friend of Ivy (who,
> incidentally, was also >on this list last summer or so (the friend,
> >that is)), that she had this habit of converting characters from one
> system to
> >another and keeping their experience. Exactly how she did this, I don't
> >know, but I got the impression she had (has?) a bunch of characters he's
> >taken through all systems she's ever played...
>
> <huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>
>
> Boy, she must have been one *creative* person...
>
> </huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>
>
> (or maybe... obsessive?)

Who needs creativity when your characters have karma pools of 350+? You
can just keep trying until you get absolute successes on everything -
no actual thinking or creativity needed! (She actually said that many
of her players' characters had pools this high or higher...)

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
Message no. 32
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 17:37:29 +0100
|I thought one change from SRI to SRII was that it was no longer a
|percentage, but 1 for every 10....
|

Nope. Shadowrun I had absolutely NO karma pool.
Any karma you got could be used in ANY way that karma can be...

(Skill/attribute/spell/successes/extra rolls/avoiding an oops/etc)

And, once you'd spent karma on ANYTHING, it was gone....

(N0 karma pool refresh or team pools....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 33
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 21:42:12 EDT
On Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:20:15 -0600 Mike Loseke writes:
>> <huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>
>>
>> Boy, she must have been one *creative* person...
>>
>> </huge_amounts_of_dripping_sarcasm>
>>
>> (or maybe... obsessive?)
>
> Who needs creativity when your characters have karma pools of 350+? You
>can just keep trying until you get absolute successes on everything -
>no actual thinking or creativity needed! (She actually said that many
>of her players' characters had pools this high or higher...)

She must have been one hell of a ROLL-player...

~Tim
Message no. 34
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:57:34 -0700
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At 08:42 PM 6/25/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|well, any rule is a optional rule. Take it or leave it, you are
free
>|to ignore any rule that does not fit into your game, or think of
any
>|number of house rules, but...
>|The good karma rule is no optional rule. Its a Fasa standard-rule.
>
>I was under the impression that the Shadowrun Companion SAID that
all rules
>within its pages were considered optional....
>
>(Someone else please clarify....)

While this is true, and you can play it any way you want to, the last
time this came up, Mike was on the list, and IIRC, he said that he
got this from Tom Dowd because Mike thought the Karma Pool rules were
a little confusing so he went to Tom and the companion way was what
Tom said he intended when he wrote it up. Regardless, it's a minor
change, and will only lessen the pool (which is a good idea for high
karma games).
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--
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 35
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:48:23 +0100
Mike Loseke said on 8:20/27 Jun 97...

> Who needs creativity when your characters have karma pools of 350+? You
> can just keep trying until you get absolute successes on everything -
> no actual thinking or creativity needed! (She actually said that many
> of her players' characters had pools this high or higher...)

350 Karma Pool, that was it, yeah. If you ask me, characters like that
aren't fun to play anymore... Nothing could _really_ challenge them,
not if it sticks somewhat within the rules anyway, because you can re-roll
all tests and buy handsful of extra successes without having to think
twice about it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 36
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 08:45:20 -0600
Quoth Gurth:
>
> Mike Loseke said on 8:20/27 Jun 97...
>
> > Who needs creativity when your characters have karma pools of 350+? You
> > can just keep trying until you get absolute successes on everything -
> > no actual thinking or creativity needed! (She actually said that many
> > of her players' characters had pools this high or higher...)
>
> 350 Karma Pool, that was it, yeah. If you ask me, characters like that
> aren't fun to play anymore... Nothing could _really_ challenge them,
> not if it sticks somewhat within the rules anyway, because you can re-roll
> all tests and buy handsful of extra successes without having to think
> twice about it.

I also seem to recall her saying that she believed that karma was
*supposed* to be used to get all the possible successes that you could.
Nothing like a good die roll to save you from having to think...

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
Message no. 37
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:50:19 -0400
In a message dated 97-06-28 10:24:54 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

> > Who needs creativity when your characters have karma pools of 350+? You
> > can just keep trying until you get absolute successes on everything -
> > no actual thinking or creativity needed! (She actually said that many
> > of her players' characters had pools this high or higher...)
>
> 350 Karma Pool, that was it, yeah. If you ask me, characters like that
> aren't fun to play anymore... Nothing could _really_ challenge them,
> not if it sticks somewhat within the rules anyway, because you can re-roll
> all tests and buy handsful of extra successes without having to think
> twice about it.
>
>>>[Now not that I am agreeing with this...but playing a character at -ANY-
level is a matter of choice...I used to always tell my game players "I don't
care what level of character you play, just remember that I will adjust
things accordingly and that may not entirely be fair for the 'lower end'
characters"....truth is, most of those players ultimately didn't give a shit
and screwed the other players over anyway...]<<<
Message no. 38
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:13:03 +0100
Mike Loseke said on 8:45/28 Jun 97...

> I also seem to recall her saying that she believed that karma was
> *supposed* to be used to get all the possible successes that you could.
> Nothing like a good die roll to save you from having to think...

The more I think of this, the more she seems like the ultimate rollplayer
:+)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 39
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:13:03 +0100
J. Keith Henry said on 11:50/28 Jun 97...

> >>>[Now not that I am agreeing with this...but playing a character at -ANY-
> level is a matter of choice...

Of course it is. You can always stop playing at any time you want to.
(Come to think of it, that may not be entirely true... ;)

> I used to always tell my game players "I don't care what level of
> character you play, just remember that I will adjust things accordingly
> and that may not entirely be fair for the 'lower end' characters"....

That only works if there _are_ lower-power characters in the game. With a
group that consist solely of 350 Karma Pool characters, you'll have a hell
of a time coming up with adventures that really challenge them. Just think
of all the skills, attribute points, spells, and/or initiations you can
buy with 3150 Good Karma...!

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 40
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:21:35 -0400
>Gurth Said:
>
>> >>>[Now not that I am agreeing with this...but playing a character at
-ANY-
>> level is a matter of choice...
>
>Of course it is. You can always stop playing at any time you want to.
>(Come to think of it, that may not be entirely true... ;)
>
>> I used to always tell my game players "I don't care what level of
>> character you play, just remember that I will adjust things accordingly
>> and that may not entirely be fair for the 'lower end' characters"....
>
>That only works if there _are_ lower-power characters in the game. With a
>group that consist solely of 350 Karma Pool characters, you'll have a hell
>of a time coming up with adventures that really challenge them. Just think
>of all the skills, attribute points, spells, and/or initiations you can
>buy with 3150 Good Karma...!

Not really. I have no trouble designing out scenerios capable of
challenging characters of that level. If a player wants to play
something that powerful, I basically agree with the above that they can,
I'll just adjust things accordingly in my game, by throwing a few NPCs
of similiar level/ability, more lower level H.E.T. [Highly Expendable
Thugs], and one or two NPCs JUST above them, to stretch them, make them
work for that karma.
I play my central bad guys with more intelligence, and forethought
[think smarter, NOT harder!], and that alone seems to totally stump my
players [my live ones, at any rate]. My NPCs look at the big picture,
while PCs are usually too busy killing everything in their way, which is
fine by me, cause it's just where I want them to be...in the dark.
[Again, this doesn't apply to my PBEM guys; well, maybe a little
<executing poke in the ribs>]. And occasionally, one of my players WILL
come at me from an angle I didn't see before. I usually reward them
appropriately ['I will kill you LAAAST!]. I like knowing my players are
thinking, not just doing the old bump and grind.
One of my players [a died in the wool power gamer; this guy was
like MacGiver when it came to designing out over the top characters]
began to complain that he didn't seem to be getting anywhere. Why, I
asked innocently ?<slightly arched eyebrows>He basically felt because he
was so powerful, he should be able to mop up the floor with anyone he
met [he even tried to take down a dragon one on one, and got mad when I
flicked the dragons talon, sending him over a 100 meter cliff, which he
survived, BTW]. I told him he was beating the majority of his opponents,
but the reason he didn't feel like he was getting anywhere was because
the Threat Level of the campaign had risen because of his abilities.
It's like any good story; as the protagonist becomes more
poweful/knowledgeble while he still faces the challenges that aren't
threatening to him anymore, he enters a realm of new challenges, and new
enemies. Power attracts power. Besides, what's the fun in constantly
beating up on peons [while fun and psrt of the realistic proportions of
the game]all the time, and not having the PC face something that gets
him to 'push the envelope', that's not earning karma in my book. It's
just going thru the old bump and grind. And I told him, if he wanted
somethig like that, I wasn't interested in running it [the player has
since moved on to table top board games like Warhammer 40K, which I do
like, and is basically carry on the same philosophy].
I find it more fun if the PCs have a wider variety of skills I can
test them on, rather than the standard 'starting' ones like Firearms,
Unarmed Combat, and Sorcery. When they actually get the points to buy
skills like Etiquette: Magical or High Society; Magick Theory: History
for non magical PCs so's they have a vague idea what's trying to eat
their leg all the time, and how to defend against it; Hang Gliding;
Dancing; Singing; on and on. It opens up new vistas for role plying,
giving them new areas to explore.
I generally [with a firm 'Zeus has a thunderbolt, and he's not
afraid to use it' stare] tell them to diversify their skills, and not
just keep stacking onto their existing ones [7 to 9 is usually the high
end of the skill levels in my game, 9's being reseved for the BIG BOYS].
Anything beyond that gets the chop. It's overkill, IMHO. Players should
grow outward, not just upward. Gms need to communicate that to their
players. And they shouldn't be afraid to tackle characters like that.
Look on it has a new challenge to test your ingenuity. I know I do,
which is why I GM so much; that, and I have a slight God complex 'You
ask me if you think I think I have a God complex...I AM God!]. Keep it
managable, and out of the realm of 'munchieism'.
Well, that's my two pence. Sorry for the squiggles at the start of
every messge; still haven't figured out how to get rid of the little
buggers. So you'll get infrequent postings from me [...and there was
much rejoicing. YAAAY!]
Adios.

Victor

_______________________________________________

'Prize what you will, prize what you can, but always remember, even he
who dies with the most prizes, still dies.'
> --LaCroix as the Nightcrawler, Forever Knight
Message no. 41
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:48:32 -0400
At 12:13 PM 6/29/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Just think
>of all the skills, attribute points, spells, and/or initiations you can
>buy with 3150 Good Karma...!
>
3150 Karma??

Geez, and I thought Bull was powerful at 350... Wat the hell do you DO
with more than 3000 Karma??

<grin>

Bull-the-hoping-he's-only-teasing-Gurth-for-a-Typo-Ork-Deck
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

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-- Me
Message no. 42
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:59:59 +0100
|Geez, and I thought Bull was powerful at 350... Wat the hell do you DO
|with more than 3000 Karma??

10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
(TO be completed... Sorry guys... Can't resist....)

10 Join the EI and trash it.
9 Tell Harly to get lost, and survive.
......
can't think of any more apart from....
1. Ascend to divinity....

Anyone want to add something?
(Or change it for that matter?)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 43
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 15:47:34 +0000
> 10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
> (TO be completed... Sorry guys... Can't resist....)
>
> 10 Join the EI and trash it.
> 9 Tell Harly to get lost, and survive.
> ......
> can't think of any more apart from....
> 1. Ascend to divinity....
>
> Anyone want to add something?
> (Or change it for that matter?)
8 Rule the World
7 Negotiate taking over the magacorps for 1¥ each

Anyone can say endless possibilities???
--Raven



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Message no. 44
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 15:47:35 +0000
> 10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
> (TO be completed... Sorry guys... Can't resist....)
>
> 10 Join the EI and trash it.
> 9 Tell Harly to get lost, and survive.
8 Negotiate to buy every corp for 1¥
7 Rule the world ?!
> ......
> can't think of any more apart from....
> 1. Ascend to divinity....

Can anybody say unlimited free wishes? Great free force 100 Spirit in
an Oillamp?
> Anyone want to add something?
> (Or change it for that matter?)
--Raven



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Message no. 45
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:07:24 EDT
On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 08:21:35 -0400 "Fisher, Victor" writes:

[snip his nice disertation on characters]

>'Prize what you will, prize what you can, but always remember, even he
>who dies with the most prizes, still dies.'
>> --LaCroix as the Nightcrawler, Forever Knight

Boy do I miss that show....

~Tim
Message no. 46
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:22:07 +0100
Spike said on 13:59/29 Jun 97...

> 10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
> (TO be completed... Sorry guys... Can't resist....)
[snip]
> Anyone want to add something?
> (Or change it for that matter?)

Well, on the SRII skill web there are 37 skills. That's a little over 81
Karma per skill, which allows you to pump them all up to at least level 8
(which costs 71 Karma if you build them from scratch). So that's about 18
skills at level 8 and 19 skills at level 9, and you still have 102 Karma
left to improve your Attributes with :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 47
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:22:07 +0100
Bull said on 8:48/29 Jun 97...

> >Just think
> >of all the skills, attribute points, spells, and/or initiations you can
> >buy with 3150 Good Karma...!
> >
> 3150 Karma??
>
> Geez, and I thought Bull was powerful at 350... Wat the hell do you DO
> with more than 3000 Karma??
>
> <grin>
>
> Bull-the-hoping-he's-only-teasing-Gurth-for-a-Typo-Ork-Deck

Not a typo. Ivy K. (that letter somehow stands for "Ryan") claimed her
characters had 350 (three hundred and fifty) Karma Pool. A simple
calculation with the 10% learns they would have to have earned in the
order of 3150 Good Karma: 350 x 9. Like I said, she apparently converted
those characters from one game system to another and kept their
experience; that would explain a lot, anyway.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All I need is a little oblivion.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 48
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:29:09 -0500
Spike said on 13:59/29 Jun 97...

> 10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
> (TO be completed... Sorry guys... Can't resist....)
[snip]
> Anyone want to add something?
> (Or change it for that matter?)

I'd summon a familiar called God. Maybe spend
2000 points on it, and spend the other 1000 on
rerolls and drain resistance...

Then I'd smile and say, "it is good."

Then, I'd chuckle a bit maniacally.

Then, I'd wring my hand together like out of a
bad movie.

Gossamer
Message no. 49
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:08:38 EST
> I'd summon a familiar called God. Maybe spend
> 2000 points on it, and spend the other 1000 on
> rerolls and drain resistance...

Interestingly enough, this almost happened in my game...An NPC
summoned a powerful ally, which got to be a bit TOO powerful for
him...he took a deadly one day, the ally went free. THe NPC
survived, but ended up serving the ally, who took the name "God".

God has been causing the runners all sorts of problems. :)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 50
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GOOD KARMA)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 22:30:17 EDT
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:44:30 +0200 Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
writes:
>At 13:28 30/06/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> >>> >10 Things that you could do with 3000 Karma....
>>> >
>>> >>> >10 Join the EI and trash it.
>>> >
>>> >>> >9 Tell Harly to get lost, and survive.
>>> >
>>> >>> 8. Assasinate Dunkelzahn at will...
>>> >
>>> >>7. Two words: Free Pizza !
>>> >
>>> >6. Tell the 400 lb. gorilla to move.
>>>
>>> 5. Spend enough time learning if you can ground through
>quickenings!
>>
>>4. Become an Evil Gm and truly understand power!
>
>3. Ground through quickenings :)

2. Quicken Groundings

Further Reading

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