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Message no. 1
From: Asher R <asrosenberg@******.COM>
Subject: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:30:19 +0200
</lurk>

Hi Guys,
I'm a little confused by something I read in the Cybertechnology
Sourcebook.
On page 83, when discussing Social and Karma Penalities for
Cybermantically sustained characters, the book states:
" Aditionally, [cybermantically sustained] characters cannot regain
Lost Essence by spending Good Karma."
Does this mean normal characters can regain lost Essence by spending
Good Karma? If so, where are the rules for this? I always thought
that once Essence was gone it was gone for good.

The only thing I can think of is that the writers may have been
refering to Initiation. Getting extra Magic Points at Initiation is
(if you really stretch your imagination) similar to getting an extra
Essence point.
That idea leads me to a very disturbing thought. What happens if a
initiated mage with several extra Magic Points is turned into a
Cyberzombie? Let's say a 4th Level Initaited with 10 Magic points is
given enough cyberware to take away 8 Essence points. Does he still
have access to his Magic skills through his remaining 2 Magic Points?
This is a very frightening idea, but I could see how some high level
Initiate Mage who is about to die might consider undergoing
Cybermantic surgery.
GM: "Well, he's cybered to the hilt, seems impervious to your magic
and is casting spells at you. What do you want to do now?"
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:47:50 -0700
Asher R wrote:
|
| </lurk>
|
| Hi Guys,
| I'm a little confused by something I read in the Cybertechnology
| Sourcebook.
| On page 83, when discussing Social and Karma Penalities for
| Cybermantically sustained characters, the book states:
| " Aditionally, [cybermantically sustained] characters cannot regain
| Lost Essence by spending Good Karma."
| Does this mean normal characters can regain lost Essence by spending
| Good Karma? If so, where are the rules for this? I always thought
| that once Essence was gone it was gone for good.

Page 190 of the SRII BB: "Good Karma can also raise
Attributes that have been reduced for some reason. Though
it is NEVER possible to use Karma to directly raise
Reaction, Essence, and Magic, Reaction may change if
Quickness or Intelligence is improved."

Maybe the authors had a house rule that if Reaction,
Essence, and Magic were reduced for whatever reason, they
could be raised back to their previous levels by spending
Good Karma. Though I would not allow Essence to be raised
in this way unless the character had the cyber- bioware
removed (if I used this house rule).

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 03:17:46 -0500
Asher R wrote
>Hi Guys,
>I'm a little confused by something I read in the Cybertechnology
>Sourcebook.
>On page 83, when discussing Social and Karma Penalities for
>Cybermantically sustained characters, the book states:
>" Aditionally, [cybermantically sustained] characters cannot regain
>Lost Essence by spending Good Karma."
>Does this mean normal characters can regain lost Essence by spending
>Good Karma? If so, where are the rules for this? I always thought
>that once Essence was gone it was gone for good.

Sounds like something the writer was playing with for the book and
then got cut. There is no way for Karma to be regained officially or with
published optional rules. Mike could we have some background on where
this line came from please.

<snip>
>That idea leads me to a very disturbing thought. What happens if a
>initiated mage with several extra Magic Points is turned into a
>Cyberzombie?

He'd have no magic. Whenever a wizard's essence rating is reduced to
zero (or below) he loses ALL magic. Iniatation won't help that. Now if
you want an angry cyberzombie who is jealous of all those who can still
cast magic...

- MC23 -
Message no. 4
From: Gert Bettens <Gert.Bettens@********.EXPRESSEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:41:21 +0100
There is NO WAY to regain lost essence. Didn't you know?
Message no. 5
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:33:25 +0000
|
|</lurk>
|
|Hi Guys,
|I'm a little confused by something I read in the Cybertechnology
|Sourcebook.
|On page 83, when discussing Social and Karma Penalities for
|Cybermantically sustained characters, the book states:
|" Aditionally, [cybermantically sustained] characters cannot regain
|Lost Essence by spending Good Karma."
|Does this mean normal characters can regain lost Essence by spending
|Good Karma? If so, where are the rules for this? I always thought
|that once Essence was gone it was gone for good.

It's not in any of the books I've got.....
Awakenings maybe?????

As far as I'm concerned, once it's gone, it's gone...

It might have been a typo....

|The only thing I can think of is that the writers may have been
|refering to Initiation. Getting extra Magic Points at Initiation is
|(if you really stretch your imagination) similar to getting an extra
|Essence point.

But a cybermanced character is mundane....
You surely can't be a mage AND have a negative essence... Can you???

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:02:01 EST
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:30:19 +0200 Asher R <asrosenberg@******.COM>
writes:
></lurk>
>
>Hi Guys,
>I'm a little confused by something I read in the Cybertechnology
>Sourcebook.
>On page 83, when discussing Social and Karma Penalities for
>Cybermantically sustained characters, the book states:
>" Aditionally, [cybermantically sustained] characters cannot regain
>Lost Essence by spending Good Karma."
>Does this mean normal characters can regain lost Essence by spending
>Good Karma? If so, where are the rules for this? I always thought
>that once Essence was gone it was gone for good.

Officially, it is. I've been considering some stuff that I might do to
allow it, while keeping it unavailable to the players.

>The only thing I can think of is that the writers may have been
>refering to Initiation. Getting extra Magic Points at Initiation is
>(if you really stretch your imagination) similar to getting an extra
>Essence point.
>That idea leads me to a very disturbing thought. What happens if a
>initiated mage with several extra Magic Points is turned into a
>Cyberzombie? Let's say a 4th Level Initaited with 10 Magic points is
>given enough cyberware to take away 8 Essence points. Does he still
>have access to his Magic skills through his remaining 2 Magic Points?
>This is a very frightening idea, but I could see how some high level
>Initiate Mage who is about to die might consider undergoing
>Cybermantic surgery.
>GM: "Well, he's cybered to the hilt, seems impervious to your magic
>and is casting spells at you. What do you want to do now?"
>
Oh, boy. It's a good thing none of my players has that book or that they
will never be given any access to cybermancy (not that most of them will
ever have enough nuyen to afford it or enough cyber to make worthwhile,
but...). I would rule that the character must have an Essence greater
than zero, and maybe even greater than one in order to use magic of any
kind.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:08:01 +0000
On 26 Jan 97 at 3:17, MC23 wrote:
[snip]
> >That idea leads me to a very disturbing thought. What happens if a
> >initiated mage with several extra Magic Points is turned into a
> >Cyberzombie?
> He'd have no magic. Whenever a wizard's essence rating is reduced to
> zero (or below) he loses ALL magic. Iniatation won't help that. Now if
> you want an angry cyberzombie who is jealous of all those who can still
> cast magic...
Errm... Why should he? As far as I know, Magic Rating is 6 + Initiate
Rating - lost Essence (- BI if you use the common house rule) - points
lost through wounds, stim patches etc. I haven't seen a rule that
states a magician looses his magic ability just 'cause his essence
drops to (or below) zero.

Please mark your house rules, and don't state them as official rules.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| than things. Well known|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | fact. - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 8
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:33:57 -0500
Sascha Pabst wrote,
>Errm... Why should he? As far as I know, Magic Rating is 6 + Initiate
>Rating - lost Essence (- BI if you use the common house rule) - points
>lost through wounds, stim patches etc. I haven't seen a rule that
>states a magician looses his magic ability just 'cause his essence
>drops to (or below) zero.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere once ago. I can't find it
now. B>[# It might have been me misinterpreting the Geasa rules from the
Grimoire. Sorry. That would still leave the cyberzombie burn-out wiz
loaded with Geasa and one infraction would reduce him to mundane. I
wouldn't recommend playing these characters without the geasa rule, since
that can become abusive. I would also impose penalty for the karma hazing
the wiz is giving off. If the wiz is initiated (and "lucky") enough to
keep a positive rating the he should have a high enough skill to
compensate for the hazing penalty.
In this situation the player's best bet is to trick the wiz into
breaking one of his geas.

>Please mark your house rules, and don't state them as official rules.

I thought I was stating official rules and I do state when it's my
house rule or when it's how _I_ would handle the situation. <grrrr> I
have no problem with admitting that I was wrong when I am, but I don't
care to get a "lecture" like this when it happens. I will never state one
of my house rules as an official rule deliberately and you suggesting
that I would pisses me off. Don't do so again.

- MC23 -
Message no. 9
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:43:16 -0500
>> He'd have no magic. Whenever a wizard's essence rating is reduced to
>> zero (or below) he loses ALL magic. Iniatation won't help that. Now if
>> you want an angry cyberzombie who is jealous of all those who can still
>Errm... Why should he? As far as I know, Magic Rating is 6 + Initiate
>Rating - lost Essence (- BI if you use the common house rule) - points
>lost through wounds, stim patches etc. I haven't seen a rule that
>states a magician looses his magic ability just 'cause his essence
>drops to (or below) zero.
>Please mark your house rules, and don't state them as official rules.

He would, I'm sure, if it was a House rule. Looking up Essence and Magic in
SRII will find that no essence means no Magic. Official rule.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 10
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:07:04 -0800
David Buehrer wrote:
> Maybe the authors had a house rule that if Reaction,
> Essence, and Magic were reduced for whatever reason, they
> could be raised back to their previous levels by spending
> Good Karma. Though I would not allow Essence to be raised
> in this way unless the character had the cyber- bioware
> removed (if I used this house rule).

Obscure reference: in the module Imago I believe that you can buy back a
point of essence lost in one part for some amount of karma. Otherwise I
can't think of any examples. (Though still assuming the Ctech thing was
a glitch.)
Message no. 11
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:12:45 -0500
Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
campaigns and I need to know!
Dust
Message no. 12
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:18:05 GMT
Dust writes

> Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
> but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
yes assuming magic isn't as well.

> What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
> initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
> campaigns and I need to know!

'Thats the way to do it!'. Basically as long as magic never ever
reaches zero he's ok, this is the point of the 'if it makes him a
mundane on the spot so be it' line in 'way of the burnout ' Geas GR2,
when it notes way of the burnout reduces you to grade 0 if initiated.

so yes initiate to grade 4 (magic 10) then install 6 essence cyber
can result in essence 0 and magic 4. Just if you now take way of the
burnout to avoid geas'es you losse he 4 magic from initiation 4-4=0
reach magic 0 and become a mundane on the spot. Note if magic EVER
reaches zero thats it, you're a mundane, tough.

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:58:45 +0000
|
|Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
|but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
|What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
|initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
|campaigns and I need to know!

Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)

Elemental adepts on the other hand......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Q Bringer of Pizza <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:57:07 -0600
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

> Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
> (Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>
Ummm....I'd like to know where you got that notion. Any magically active
character can initiate, including adepts. I don't have the Grim sitting
in front of me right now, but I know for a fact that phys ads can
initiate, even the non-astrally aware ones. If they can initiate, than so
can any other adept.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 15
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:57:47 +0000
|
|On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:
|
|> Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
|> (Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
|>
|Ummm....I'd like to know where you got that notion. Any magically active
|character can initiate, including adepts.

There is a rule that states that you can't initiate if you have no chance of
assensing.... No connection to astral space, apart from the powers over
whatever.... (Elementals or spells)....

I don't have the Grim sitting
|in front of me right now, but I know for a fact that phys ads can
|initiate, even the non-astrally aware ones.

That's because they have the *potential* to be astrally aware.
The power is available, even if they don't choose it....

|If they can initiate, than so
|can any other adept.

Nope....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:03:04 -0500
At 09:12 AM 1/28/97 -0500, Dust babbled:
>Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
>but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
>What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
>initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
>campaigns and I need to know!
> Dust
>
Ok, just to warn you, the magic part of the game is still a mystery to
me... I've read through all the magic books several times, but I don't
have it all down...

With that out of the way, I will give you my thoughts...

You could rule it one of two ways...

A) Since spells that you cast that have a higher force than your Magic
Rating do Physical Drain, then a Mage with no Magic Rating (Due to
cyber/bio/whatever) would always take physical drain for his spells, as
even a force one spell is above his magic rating...

or...

B) Once his magic rating hits 0, he loses the ability to cast spells...
You may or may not allow him to gain Initiate levels, allowing him to get
back a magic point, but if you do, he can't cast spells until he does...

I can see the logic for going either way. However, I can't quote you any
official rules, so that's how I would wing it...

All IMNSHO, of course...:):):)

Bull-the-non-magical-ork-decker-turned-GM
--
Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 1 week till Star Wars!
Message no. 17
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:35:21 -0600
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

> |
> |On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:
> |
> |> Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
> |> (Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
> |>
> |Ummm....I'd like to know where you got that notion. Any magically active
> |character can initiate, including adepts.
>
> There is a rule that states that you can't initiate if you have no chance of
> assensing.... No connection to astral space, apart from the powers over
> whatever.... (Elementals or spells)....
>
> I don't have the Grim sitting
> |in front of me right now, but I know for a fact that phys ads can
> |initiate, even the non-astrally aware ones.
>
> That's because they have the *potential* to be astrally aware.
> The power is available, even if they don't choose it....
>
> |If they can initiate, than so
> |can any other adept.
>
> Nope....

OK I can see what you mean, and i think FASA kind of fixed it in the SR
compainion. The fix consists of the Astral Sight Edge. Anyone else
agree... One more question though : How do you handel magical edges in
your games. I'd only allow them if they seem appropreiot... like a
improved invisability spell for a ninja type Phys AD. or astral Sight fo
a Conjuring or Sorcery adept ect...
Message no. 18
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:49:06 -0500
>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>
>Elemental adepts on the other hand......

You don't require Astral awarenes....Phys Ads can initiate, and they don't
(necessarily) have it.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 19
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:02:29 +0000
|
|>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
|>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
|>
|>Elemental adepts on the other hand......
|
|You don't require Astral awarenes....Phys Ads can initiate, and they don't
|(necessarily) have it.

I did say the *potential*, not the actual ability.

Phys Ads CAN assense. (If they choose to buy it).
Sorcery and conjuror adepts CAN NOT.

(And no, I'm not using the shadowrun companion).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 20
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:05:15 -0500
At 08:49 PM 1/28/97 -0500, Brett Borger babbled:
>>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>>
>>Elemental adepts on the other hand......
>
>You don't require Astral awarenes....Phys Ads can initiate, and they don't
>(necessarily) have it.
>
It seems everyone keeps missing one key word... "potential"... No other
adept can get astral awareness, regardless of how many times they
initiate... But the phys-ad can...

It's not just you, Swift... i've seen a couple others miss it too so far...:)

Bull
--
Bull-the-cuddly-Star-Wars-loving-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 1 week till Star Wars!
Message no. 21
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:40:17 -0500
>There is a rule that states that you can't initiate if you have no chance of
>assensing.... No connection to astral space, apart from the powers over
>whatever.... (Elementals or spells)....

*WHERE*??? You seem to be the only voicing this side, so we want
REFERENCES! I just went through GRimmy and Awakenings, and the only thing I
found was than 90% of Metamagic requires Perception. That's it.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 22
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:40:49 -0500
>OK I can see what you mean, and i think FASA kind of fixed it in the SR
>compainion. The fix consists of the Astral Sight Edge. Anyone else
>agree... One more question though : How do you handel magical edges in
>your games. I'd only allow them if they seem appropreiot... like a
>improved invisability spell for a ninja type Phys AD. or astral Sight fo
>a Conjuring or Sorcery adept ect...

I disagree. Any character capable of doing SOMETHING magical is astrally
active, whether thay can see it themselves or not.

SRII page 116 says that any character with a magic attribute (adept and mage
and shaman alike) is generically called a Magician. Grimmy refers ONLY to
Magician when speaking of Initiation. Without more to go on, I can't agree
with Spike.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 23
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:42:19 -0500
>>Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
>>but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
>>What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
>>initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
>>campaigns and I need to know!

I still say the rule that Essence below 0 indicates no magic....Someone used
the rule from Grimmy about burned out "If this makes him a mundane on the
spot, so be it." to justify his case, but he forgot that several other
things can make you lose magic without losing essence (allies, thesis,
oaths, damage).

Simply reading the Cybermancy section tells you how resistant to magic they are.

Howver, I can find no rule that states this. (I think FASA assumed....)

FASAMike? Are you back yet?

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 24
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:46:07 +0000
|>>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
|>>
|>>Elemental adepts on the other hand......
|>
|>You don't require Astral awarenes....Phys Ads can initiate, and they don't
|>(necessarily) have it.
|>
|It seems everyone keeps missing one key word... "potential"... No other
|adept can get astral awareness, regardless of how many times they
|initiate... But the phys-ad can...

Well..... Elemental and shamanic adepts can (and do) have astral
projection....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:51:25 +0000
|
|>There is a rule that states that you can't initiate if you have no chance of
|>assensing.... No connection to astral space, apart from the powers over
|>whatever.... (Elementals or spells)....
|
|*WHERE*??? You seem to be the only voicing this side, so we want
|REFERENCES! I just went through GRimmy and Awakenings, and the only thing I
|found was than 90% of Metamagic requires Perception. That's it.

OK, I'll check..... I think it's in either SHRII or Grimmy....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 26
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:13:55 -0500
>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)

You sure about that. Hmm... I'll definately have to recheck that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is it in the "mysterious employer credo" that these little rendezvous always
have to be in exotic locales.

I mean just once wouldn't you like to sit down at a Denny's and plan
an assassination over a French Slam Breakfest?

"Deadpool #1"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 27
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:58:35 EST
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:12:45 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
>Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below
>1
>but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?
>What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
>initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of
>my
>campaigns and I need to know!
> Dust
>
As far as I know, a magicina or adept must have a magic rating of at
least one to be considered magically active. I'd also rule that without
at least 1 full point of Essence, they cannot be considered Magically
Active. You might see if you can get an official ruling though...(Mike?
Steve? somebody?)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 28
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:58:36 EST
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:57:47 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|
>|On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:
>|
>|> Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>|> (Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>|>
>|Ummm....I'd like to know where you got that notion. Any magically
>active
>|character can initiate, including adepts.
>
>There is a rule that states that you can't initiate if you have no
>chance of
>assensing.... No connection to astral space, apart from the powers
>over
>whatever.... (Elementals or spells)....
>

Why don't you quote this elusive rule?

>I don't have the Grim sitting
>|in front of me right now, but I know for a fact that phys ads can
>|initiate, even the non-astrally aware ones.
>
>That's because they have the *potential* to be astrally aware.
>The power is available, even if they don't choose it....
>
>|If they can initiate, than so
>|can any other adept.
>
>Nope....

I'm afraid I simply don't think that it works that way. Any adept or
magician may initiate. If they cannot perceive the astral, they only get
Masking for metamagical abilities (maybe centering, too, but I don't know
about that)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 29
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:58:36 EST
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:18:05 GMT Mark Steedman
<M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk> writes:
>
>'Thats the way to do it!'. Basically as long as magic never ever
>reaches zero he's ok, this is the point of the 'if it makes him a
>mundane on the spot so be it' line in 'way of the burnout ' Geas GR2,
>when it notes way of the burnout reduces you to grade 0 if initiated.
>
>so yes initiate to grade 4 (magic 10) then install 6 essence cyber
>can result in essence 0 and magic 4. Just if you now take way of the
>burnout to avoid geas'es you losse he 4 magic from initiation 4-4=0
>reach magic 0 and become a mundane on the spot. Note if magic EVER
>reaches zero thats it, you're a mundane, tough.

Actually, pg 52, Grimmy 2, 'Way of the Burnout':

"His Magic Attribute Rating goes down immediately to 6 minus his total
lifetime losses to his Magic Attribute."

Doesn't change how your example turned out, but it does change how he got
there.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 30
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:46:30 -0500
>>'Thats the way to do it!'. Basically as long as magic never ever
>>reaches zero he's ok, this is the point of the 'if it makes him a
>>mundane on the spot so be it' line in 'way of the burnout ' Geas GR2,
>>when it notes way of the burnout reduces you to grade 0 if initiated.

Did you forget you can lose Magic without losing Essence? I'm sure THAT is
the point of this line. I seriously doubt you can rationalize being
magically abled when your body should be DEAD by the amount of cyber in it.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 31
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:00:04 -0500
Bull wrote,
>A) Since spells that you cast that have a higher force than your Magic
>Rating do Physical Drain, then a Mage with no Magic Rating (Due to
>cyber/bio/whatever) would always take physical drain for his spells, as
>even a force one spell is above his magic rating...

This option doesn't work because magic rating zero is mundane and
there is no coming back from that. The question is whether or not essence
zero or below equals the same thing. I thought it was but have yet to
find the reference.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 32
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:14:47 -0500
Brett Borger wrote,
>He would, I'm sure, if it was a House rule. Looking up Essence and Magic in
>SRII will find that no essence means no Magic. Official rule.

I can't seem to find the reference myself now. Where is it? I
thought I read it somewhere but now I can't find it. I'm now wondering if
I could have been mistaken. Thanks for the backing though.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 33
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:19:38 -0500
Spike wrote,
>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)

The only restriction like that I've seen is with the Astral Quest
ordeal for initiation and that can be circumvented with free spirit's
astral gateway power. And I've seen no limitations on who can form an
astral contact.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 34
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:58:08 +0000
|
|>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
|>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
|
|You sure about that. Hmm... I'll definately have to recheck that.

I'm pretty sure, but I haven't had the chance to check yet....

I think it's in the adept part of the main book....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 35
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:02:40 +0000
|Why don't you quote this elusive rule?

Because unlike some people, I don't have books on hand....

I'm in the university computer lab when responding to e-mail, NOT in my
room, and my arms to stretch that far.......

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 36
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
Spike said on 17:58/28 Jan 97...

> Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
> (Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>
> Elemental adepts on the other hand......

Are you sure? I always thought everybody could initiate (I couldn't find
anything about restrictions in the Grimoire when I skimmed through it just
now).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 37
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:36:27 +0100
Dust said on 9:12/28 Jan 97...

> Can a magician continue to cast spells if his essence is reduced below 1
> but not to zero but that makes his magic rating zero also, doesn't it?

A normal magician would have a Magic Rating of 0 in this case, and he
wouldn't be able to cast spells anymore. Most initiates (see the
Grimoire) could still cast spells, because their initiate grade is added
to their Magic rating: a grade 3 initiate with an Essence of .2 has a
Magic Rating of 3.

> What if you start out as a conjurer adept with essence at 1, get
> initiated, and then get more cyberware? This is happening in one of my
> campaigns and I need to know!

Then your Magic Rating drops to 0, and you're not a conjurer adept anymore
-- you're a mundane who used to be a conjurer adept :) Unless you've
initiated, of course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Past Perfect Tense
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 38
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:41:02 EST
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:02:40 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|Why don't you quote this elusive rule?
>
>Because unlike some people, I don't have books on hand....
>
>I'm in the university computer lab when responding to e-mail, NOT in
>my
>room, and my arms to stretch that far.......
>
Understandable. What's to prevent you from looking this up when you get
back to your room, though? If this is about initiating, why on earth
would it even be mentioned in the SRII main book (as you've mentioned in
earlier posts on this subject)?

Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage-who-must-like-making-trouble
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 39
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:30:36 -0500
> I can't seem to find the reference myself now. Where is it? I
>thought I read it somewhere but now I can't find it. I'm now wondering if
>I could have been mistaken. Thanks for the backing though.

Ditto....can't find it....it may have been something I read from 1st ed. I
haven't checked Street sam yet though....

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 40
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:38:38 EST
On Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:05:15 -0500 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>At 08:49 PM 1/28/97 -0500, Brett Borger babbled:
>>>Sorcery and conjuror adepts can't initiate.
>>>(Only people with the potential of astral awareness can.)
>>>
>>>Elemental adepts on the other hand......
>>
>>You don't require Astral awarenes....Phys Ads can initiate, and they
>don't
>>(necessarily) have it.
>>
>It seems everyone keeps missing one key word... "potential"... No
>other
>adept can get astral awareness, regardless of how many times they
>initiate... But the phys-ad can...
>
>It's not just you, Swift... i've seen a couple others miss it too so
>far...:)
>
I dunno, Bull. I think Spike's misquoted something here. Why would the
inability to assense (lack of potential for assenssing) prevent an adept
from initiating? I really don't think it makes sense, especially if
you're not going to apply to physads without astral perception as well.
<shrug> I guess it just smells wrong, so to speak.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 41
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:36:15 +0000
|Understandable. What's to prevent you from looking this up when you get
|back to your room, though? If this is about initiating, why on earth
|would it even be mentioned in the SRII main book (as you've mentioned in
|earlier posts on this subject)?

I did... And, OK, I admit it... Thwap away..... I was wrong....

It was another case of attack of the killer house rules, and the fact that
I've not read the Grimoire in a while.

The grimoire states (under adepts) that they can't access *most* metamagic,
which does imply that they can initiate.....

Dopey me....

:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 42
From: Greg <ghacke@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:35:59 -0500
On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, L Canthros wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:02:40 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> writes:
> >|Why don't you quote this elusive rule?
> >Because unlike some people, I don't have books on hand....
> >I'm in the university computer lab when responding to e-mail, NOT in
> >my
> >room, and my arms to stretch that far.......
> Understandable. What's to prevent you from looking this up when you get
> back to your room, though? If this is about initiating, why on earth
> would it even be mentioned in the SRII main book (as you've mentioned in
> earlier posts on this subject)?
[edited for size]
I have both the First Edition and Second Edition, along with both
respective Grimores and Awakenings, and NO WHERE does it discuss good
karma and it's effects on essence in any way shape or form. I even have
the german version and my GF checked...it's not in there either...


*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
| Sir, I admit to your general rule, | Gregory C. Hacke |
| That every poet is a fool. | hacke.2@***.edu |
| | ghacke@******.edu |
| But you, yourself go to show it, | |
| Not every fool is a Poet. | Check out my web pages at this url: |
| - S.T. Coleridge | http://www.mville.edu/~ghacke/ |
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
Message no. 43
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:31:06 +0000
|> Understandable. What's to prevent you from looking this up when you get
|> back to your room, though? If this is about initiating, why on earth
|> would it even be mentioned in the SRII main book (as you've mentioned in
|> earlier posts on this subject)?

|[edited for size]
|I have both the First Edition and Second Edition, along with both
|respective Grimores and Awakenings, and NO WHERE does it discuss good
|karma and it's effects on essence in any way shape or form. I even have
|the german version and my GF checked...it's not in there either...

Eh? What's Karma and Essense got to do with anything?
This argument was about Sorcerer and conjurer adepts initiating....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 44
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:55:06 EST
On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:36:15 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|Understandable. What's to prevent you from looking this up when you
>get
>|back to your room, though? If this is about initiating, why on earth
>|would it even be mentioned in the SRII main book (as you've mentioned
>in
>|earlier posts on this subject)?
>
>I did... And, OK, I admit it... Thwap away..... I was wrong....
>
>It was another case of attack of the killer house rules, and the fact
>that
>I've not read the Grimoire in a while.
>
>The grimoire states (under adepts) that they can't access *most*
>metamagic,
>which does imply that they can initiate.....
>
>Dopey me....
>
>:)

I'd thwap you, but I've made one too many misquotes myself of late, so
I'm willing to let it pass-this time;)

Canthros-the-merciful-shapeshifter-mage
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 45
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:35:00 +0000
|I dunno, Bull. I think Spike's misquoted something here. Why would the
|inability to assense (lack of potential for assenssing) prevent an adept
|from initiating? I really don't think it makes sense, especially if
|you're not going to apply to physads without astral perception as well.
|<shrug> I guess it just smells wrong, so to speak.

I take it you've not seen my "OK, thwap me, I was wrong..." Post?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 46
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:46:26 EST
On Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:35:00 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|I dunno, Bull. I think Spike's misquoted something here. Why would
>the
>|inability to assense (lack of potential for assenssing) prevent an
>adept
>|from initiating? I really don't think it makes sense, especially if
>|you're not going to apply to physads without astral perception as
>well.
>|<shrug> I guess it just smells wrong, so to speak.
>
>I take it you've not seen my "OK, thwap me, I was wrong..." Post?
Um...yeah. My mail server's been taking it's own sweet time the last few
days getting my mail out. It's been taking it a couple of hours to get it
to the listserver of late....

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 47
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:28:32 +1100
> The grimoire states (under adepts) that they can't access *most* metamagic,
> which does imply that they can initiate.....
>
> Dopey me....

Hell, you scared teh *** out of me. I'm playing a grade 1 sorceror
adept, and I was worried my GM was going to stumble across this
mysterious rule you were talking about! <phew>

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
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Remember, no matter what they say, you can
never have enough sugar. - Michael
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Message no. 48
From: Elfman & Danita <elf-dani@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:53:54 -0700
> From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
>
> Brett Borger wrote,
> >He would, I'm sure, if it was a House rule. Looking up Essence and Magic
in
> >SRII will find that no essence means no Magic. Official rule.
>
> I can't seem to find the reference myself now. Where is it? I
> thought I read it somewhere but now I can't find it. I'm now wondering if
> I could have been mistaken. Thanks for the backing though.
>
Actually, I believe any ref to zero essence (or less) essence relating to
magic would have to be in Cybertechnology specifically cybermancy sections,
since in all previous books, zero essence means death (or was that below
zero means death).

Sgt Pepper

Visit Elfman's World at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani
or Danitaville at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani/index.html
Message no. 49
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 03:36:17 -0500
Elfman wrote,
>Actually, I believe any ref to zero essence (or less) essence relating to
>magic would have to be in Cybertechnology specifically cybermancy sections,
>since in all previous books, zero essence means death (or was that below
>zero means death).

Zero is bottom line. Anything below that and you're an ex-parrot. If they
don't use cybermancy and nail you to the perch, you'd be pushing up the
daisies.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 50
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:05:11 +0000
|Um...yeah. My mail server's been taking it's own sweet time the last few
|days getting my mail out. It's been taking it a couple of hours to get it
|to the listserver of late....

Added to the fact that the server was down for a couple of days....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 51
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Good Karma and Lost Essence.
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:12:04 +0000
|
|> The grimoire states (under adepts) that they can't access *most* metamagic,
|> which does imply that they can initiate.....
|>
|> Dopey me....
|
|Hell, you scared teh *** out of me. I'm playing a grade 1 sorceror
|adept, and I was worried my GM was going to stumble across this
|mysterious rule you were talking about! <phew>

<sheepish>
Sorry......
</sheepish>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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