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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 13:10:01 2002
Okay, I was looking over the karma rules (being a fairly new GM for
Shadowrun...haven't had to deal with good karma yet). And I think they
suck! So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have to
earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
there....am I reading this wrong?

Meph
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Peter Kristiansen)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 13:35:01 2002
From: "Meph"

> Okay, I was looking over the karma rules (being a fairly new GM for
> Shadowrun...haven't had to deal with good karma yet). And I think
they
> suck! So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have
to
> earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
> there....am I reading this wrong?

I think we can safely assume that you has ;-)

When you earn Karma one out of ten goes into the Karma Pool, the
remaining nine goes into Good Karma. It might be a good idea to keep
track of how many karma you've earned in total as it is not when you
have 10 karma that you put one in the pool, it is every time your tally
crosses 10, 20, 30 etc. etc.

I hope that helps. Otherwise try reading the Karma section in SR3 again
;-)

-Peter
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 13:40:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Meph whispered:


> Okay, I was looking over the karma rules (being a fairly new GM for
> Shadowrun...haven't had to deal with good karma yet). And I think they
> suck! So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have to
> earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
> there....am I reading this wrong?
>
> Meph

Er.. yeah.. it's the other way around.. you get 1 Poipnt of KarmaPOOL for
every 10 pt of KARMA you get. The Good Karma is basically the Karma you can
still spend.
Example:
Joe Runner and his group succesfully accomplish their mission, and the GM is
giving out Karma. He decides that everybody get's 6 points of Karma, + 2
points for Joe because of good roleplaying. Now, assuming this is Joe's
first run, he now has a total of 8 Karma, and also 8 Good Karma (he did'nt
spend any yet). He now also get's Reputaion, 8 + GM discreetion Shadowrep
and, GM discretion, depending on how stealthily this mission was performed,
some Public Rep. He could use his Good Karma to upgrade his Pistols-Skill
from 2 to 3 spending 3*1.5 = 4.5 round up = 5 Good Karma because his
Quickness is above 2. He could also upgrade his Quickness from 3 to 4
spending 4*2=8 Good Karma. Since his total karma hasn't reached ten yet, his
Karmapool is still 1 (provided he didn't burn it during the mission).
After his next run, Joe get's another 4 Karma. Now he's got a total of 12
Karma. If he spent some of his Good Karma for his Pistols 3 Skill, he now
has 12-5 = 7 Good Karma. He also get's another point of Karmapool (So now
his Karmapool is 2), because his total Karma has reached 10. (If he where a
meta, he'd need 20 total Karma) Depending how you read the rules, either
your Karmapool goes up 1 for every 10 pionts of Karma, or every 10th point
of Karma you've earned goes into your Karmapool, in which case Joe would
only have a Good Karma of 6 now (because one of his Karmapoints went into
his Karmapool instead of his Good Karma). We use the second, tho I think the
first is better (because easier math).

-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 13:45:01 2002
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:13:35 -0800
"Meph" <meph@*********.net> wrote:

> Okay, I was looking over the karma rules (being a fairly new GM for
> Shadowrun...haven't had to deal with good karma yet). And I think they
> suck! So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have to
> earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
> there....am I reading this wrong?
>
> Meph


Yup :). Good Karma is what the GM distributes at the end of each
run. You can earn 6 Good Karma in a single adventure if you do
reasonably well in it.

Now, every 20th (10th, if you're human) point of Good Karma you
earn goes into your Karma Pool, which is what you use to reroll failures
and stuff :). I don't think there has been a SR character who managed to
accumulate a Karma Pool of 90...


--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
http://www.shadowlandbr.hpg.com.br
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:00:01 2002
> When you earn Karma one out of ten goes into the Karma Pool, the
> remaining nine goes into Good Karma. It might be a good idea to keep
> track of how many karma you've earned in total as it is not when you
> have 10 karma that you put one in the pool, it is every time your tally
> crosses 10, 20, 30 etc. etc.

Ohh, well I thought it was every 15. And I get the every 10 points
thing, I'm just saying total earned pool. But eevn with every 10 points
that still means that the character has to earn (in total) 60 karma pool to
get the points to earn enough good karma to raise an attribute from 2 to 3.
So that still pretty insane! Considering that I've been running "published"
games. And the max karma pool that was given in one single game is like
5-6. So that's ten games before a character has the points to raise one
attribute up one point. That seems even worse for character expansion than
White Wolf!

Meph
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:05:01 2002
> Er.. yeah.. it's the other way around.. you get 1 Poipnt of KarmaPOOL for
> every 10 pt of KARMA you get. The Good Karma is basically the Karma you
can
> still spend.

Good! I'm glad to know I'm an idiot! ;) That what I thought it
should be like but I wasn't getting that from the book! Thanks guys!

Meph....the moron! :>
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:05:06 2002
> Ohh, well I thought it was every 15. And I get the every 10 points
> thing, I'm just saying total earned pool. But eevn with every 10 points
> that still means that the character has to earn (in total) 60 karma pool
to
> get the points to earn enough good karma to raise an attribute from 2 to
3.
> So that still pretty insane! Considering that I've been running
"published"
> games. And the max karma pool that was given in one single game is like
> 5-6. So that's ten games before a character has the points to raise one
> attribute up one point. That seems even worse for character expansion
than
> White Wolf!

Meph, are you sure that you're thinking of Good Karma as the karma you use
to raise attributes? It sounds to me like you're confusing the two.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Peter Kristiansen)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:15:01 2002
From: "Meph"
> Ohh, well I thought it was every 15. And I get the every 10
points
> thing, I'm just saying total earned pool. But eevn with every 10
points
> that still means that the character has to earn (in total) 60 karma
pool to
> get the points to earn enough good karma to raise an attribute from 2
to 3.

Oh I see it. Well <paste Gak's post here>.

You see?

Peter
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:20:01 2002
> Meph, are you sure that you're thinking of Good Karma as the karma you use
> to raise attributes? It sounds to me like you're confusing the two.

I was...but that's all cleared up now!!!!!! ;>

Meph
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:25:01 2002
> Oh I see it. Well <paste Gak's post here>.
>
> You see?


Ohhh...I see now...thanks for clearing that up! :>

Meph
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Beilby)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 14:25:07 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Good Karma question...


> > Meph, are you sure that you're thinking of Good Karma as the karma you
use
> > to raise attributes? It sounds to me like you're confusing the two.
>
> I was...but that's all cleared up now!!!!!! ;>

I saw. Your post showed up after I sent mine. But it's an easy mistake to
make.
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Keith Duthie)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Sun Feb 24 15:50:01 2002
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Gak The Great wrote:

> some Public Rep. He could use his Good Karma to upgrade his Pistols-Skill
> from 2 to 3 spending 3*1.5 = 4.5 round up = 5 Good Karma because his

Actually, that would be 3*1.5=4.5 round *down* = 4. The karma cost of
skills is rounded down.

--
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change ready.
http://users.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 06:00:01 2002
>From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
>So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have to
>earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
>there....am I reading this wrong?


Yes, I know how you feel though, I had the same problem (and similar with
combat phases/combat turns/Initiative passes) Basically you have them the
wrong way round, at the end of each 'run you will probably award Good Karma
(effectively experience) then as your characters progress they will move
Good Karma point number 20 (and 10 if they're human) to their Karma Pool,
Karma Pool is what you use to avoid Ooops's and similar stuff (Beyond the
Shadows SR3) So a human character who has been awarded 21 points of good
Karma will have a Karma pool of 3 (one from the beginning, his tenth good
Karma and his twentieth Good Karma) and have 19 points of Good Karma
available to spend on advancement, be it new skills, improving attributes or
whatever.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 06:10:01 2002
According to Meph, on Sun, 24 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> Okay, I was looking over the karma rules (being a fairly new GM for
> Shadowrun...haven't had to deal with good karma yet). And I think they
> suck! So for a character to raise an attribute from 2 to 3 they have to
> earn 6 Good Karma which translates into 90 Karma pool before they get
> there....am I reading this wrong?

Yes :) It seems like you've got it somewhat backward there -- every tenth
point of Karma you earn (twentieth for metahumans) becomes Karma Pool, the
rest becomes Good Karma. A typical adventure "pays" anywhere between 2 and
10 Karma, depending on its complexity, what you did as a player, the GM's
generosity, etc. so after a typical adventure you can probably raise that
Attribute from 2 to 3.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 11:05:03 2002
>Yes :) It seems like you've got it somewhat backward there -- every tenth
>point of Karma you earn (twentieth for metahumans) becomes Karma Pool, the
>rest becomes Good Karma. A typical adventure "pays" anywhere between 2 and
>10 Karma, depending on its complexity, what you did as a player, the GM's
>generosity, etc. so after a typical adventure you can probably raise that
>Attribute from 2 to 3.

Yes, thanks again to everyone letting me know I'm an idiot! ;> But hey, I
learned and now it'll be right!

Meph
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 13:50:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Meph whispered:
<snip>
> Yes, thanks again to everyone letting me know I'm an idiot! ;> But hey,
I
> learned and now it'll be right!

ah, the joys of having someone who already knows the system in the group..
:)

Oh, don't take it _to_ hard.. that can happen to anyone.. *chuckle* ;)
no, really. if that's the only major thing you've realized you're doing
wrong until now..
I think I've relearned the whole game since I signed on this list... like
combat.. or Karma..
(look down)

Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Keith Duthie whispered:


> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Gak The Great wrote:
>
> > some Public Rep. He could use his Good Karma to upgrade his
Pistols-Skill
> > from 2 to 3 spending 3*1.5 = 4.5 round up = 5 Good Karma because his
>
> Actually, that would be 3*1.5=4.5 round *down* = 4. The karma cost of
> skills is rounded down.
>

Ah, that's another thing I was gonna ask, but then forgot. In the NSRCG it's
that way, too.
BTW, is the author (cannot remember name offhand) here on the list? Or
anybody responsible for it? coz the thing starts counting Karma for
Specializations from 3 on, not from 1+Skillrating. Or is that the way it
should be, too?


BWUAHAH.. BWUAAHAHAHA.. hihi hehe.. I WILL DESTROY YOU!! *manic laughter
continues*

they call me [ch]psycho_priest :P


-- GAK THE GREAT

"Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden,
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn."
Sauron aus "Herr der Ringe von J.R.R. Tolkien
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 17:15:01 2002
> BWUAHAH.. BWUAAHAHAHA.. hihi hehe.. I WILL DESTROY YOU!! *manic laughter
> continues*
>
> they call me [ch]psycho_priest :P


You know you're not normal right Gak?!?!? ;>

Meph
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 17:50:01 2002
>> BWUAHAH.. BWUAAHAHAHA.. hihi hehe.. I WILL DESTROY YOU!! *manic laughter
>> continues*
>>
>> they call me [ch]psycho_priest :P


> You know you're not normal right Gak?!?!? ;>

Dude, who is?
I just defended the honor of some girl I hardly know from a 350 year old
dead samurai.
Of course all my friends think that's par for the course.

EMFN John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
"Don't put off tomorrow what you can do today, because it's just a
matter of time."
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Mon Feb 25 21:15:01 2002
> Dude, who is?
> I just defended the honor of some girl I hardly know from a 350 year old
> dead samurai.
> Of course all my friends think that's par for the course.


Yeah see, but that makes sense!!!! ;>

Meph
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: Good Karma question...
Date: Tue Feb 26 14:20:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Meph whispered:

> > BWUAHAH.. BWUAAHAHAHA.. hihi hehe.. I WILL DESTROY YOU!! *manic laughter
> > continues*
> >
> > they call me [ch]psycho_priest :P
>
>
> You know you're not normal right Gak?!?!? ;>
>
Well, yeah.. normal is so.. common, if you know what I mean *give that
stupid "we both know what I'm talking bout, don't we"-look* ;P

Of course, I actually intended to put it below the signature of Keith:

> Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change ready.
> http://users.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-

before I deleted it... D'OH!

-- GAK THE GREAT

I don't suffer from insanity,
I enjoy every moment of it!

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