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From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	Great Dragon (was Re: Weapon Availability and Price ...)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:27:01 +0100

Message no. 1 According to Robert Ennew, on Tuesday 20 January 2004 06:35 the word on the
street was...

> But wouldn't you be a drekhead If you tried to fire
> something like that without any support or tripod?

AFAIK it is possible to fire a real Dragon missile without using the bipod,
but it's not _exactly_ the recommended method ;)

> Recoil must be a Bitch.

Erm... see the other thread :)

> From what your saying Gurth
> you'd want the tripod to give you a chance of hitting
> anything, you wouldn't want to risk wasting the bucks
> you forked out for the missile(s)

With the M47, and most other modern missiles, you have to keep aiming the
missile at the target until it hits (or misses, of course), else it will
do unexpected things such as plow into the ground. A support of some kind
is vital in that case, else any slight movement you make with the launcher
will be transmitted to the missile -- the US Army's M47 manual (it's
amazing what you can pick up in army surplus stores :) stresses that the
operator should hold his breath until the missile hits, because "Normal
breathing causes your shoulder to move up and down. One-eighth inch
movement at the shoulder can cause a miss of two meters at maximum range."

Whereas in SR, you wouldn't have that problem, since all missiles are of
the fire-and-forget type: after you press the trigger, you can go do
something else. The tripod would be a pure waste of time, resources, bulk,
weight, and probably several more things. Loaded, the Great Dragon weighs
under 6 kg -- if you can't hold that on your shoulder to aim and fire, you
probably shouldn't be near a weapon at all. About the only function of the
tripod would be to allow the missile to be set up ready to be fired later
and/or by remote control -- for example for an ambush or as an AT mine.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	lordmountainlion@***.rr.com (Scott)
Subject:	Great Dragon (was Re: Weapon Availability and Price ...)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:53:33 -0700

Message no. 2 Heya Boyos'

I'm curious if anyone wants the input from someone who has used at-4's a
dragon and was part of the team working on the sight criteria for the
Javelin?

You all are going toe to toe over this and I find it intriguing. Never
thought the idea of at missile recoil would generate such a long debate.

'Would you MIND not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons pleas?'

From:	ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject:	Great Dragon (was Re: Weapon Availability and Price ...)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:04:37 +0000

Message no. 3 In article <200401201127.01972.gurth@******.nl>, Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
writes
>Whereas in SR, you wouldn't have that problem, since all missiles are of
>the fire-and-forget type: after you press the trigger, you can go do
>something else. The tripod would be a pure waste of time, resources, bulk,
>weight, and probably several more things.

The Javelin (Dragon replacement) doesn't use any support other than the
aimer's shoulder: precisely because all the user has to do is put a gate
around the target, select flightpath and fuze, and fire. As soon as the
missile's gone, it's on its own and the firer can evade, reload, and
fire again.

Dragon used a folding stand for support and MILAN is tripod-mounted
because after firing you have to hold the sights on the target for as
much as 30 seconds; and the missile guides to your sightline, so the
more you move the less accurate you are.

>Loaded, the Great Dragon weighs
>under 6 kg -- if you can't hold that on your shoulder to aim and fire, you
>probably shouldn't be near a weapon at all. About the only function of the
>tripod would be to allow the missile to be set up ready to be fired later
>and/or by remote control -- for example for an ambush or as an AT mine.

Using a Great Dragon as an offroute mine seems distinctly wasteful: the
British Army uses a dedicated munition for the job (a hefty
tripwire-activated EFP charge).
>

--
Paul J. Adam

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	Great Dragon (was Re: Weapon Availability and Price ...)
Date:	Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:14:08 +0100

Message no. 4 According to Lone Eagle, on Saturday 31 January 2004 23:39 the word on the
street was...

> It also has a tripod because of the fact that it's pictured that way in
> Fields of Fire (I think?)

It is, but my question with this is always: did the original text include
the tripod, so the artist put it into the illustration, or did the artist
return a picture with a tripod, and was the text altered to suit?

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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