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Message no. 1
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:29:57 -0600
This is something that struck me on reading MitS (a while ago) was that
Ancestor Spirits couldn't be great form. Personally, I'm at a loss to
figure out why.

As any medievalist around here knows (hey, I'm one... there could be
others), many Kings, Heroes, and other such people traced their ancestry
back to their Gods (e.g. the House of Windsor has Wotan buried deep in its
ancestry). Now, then, to me this would seem like one Hel of a Great Form
Ancestor.

Has anyone else given thought to this, or am I howling in the wilderness
again?

***
Skald-Mark Mjöksiglandi
a.k.a. Nexx
a.k.a. Mark Hall
***
"If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no
light. If I lose paper and ink I will write in blood on forgotten walls. I
will write always. I will capture nights all over the world and bring them
to you."
-Henry Rollins
***
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/index.html
Updated October 5th, 2000
Message no. 2
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:08:53 -0500
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:29:57 -0600 "Nexx" <nexx@********.net> writes:
> As any medievalist around here knows (hey, I'm one... there could be
> others), many Kings, Heroes, and other such people traced their
> ancestry
> back to their Gods (e.g. the House of Windsor has Wotan buried deep
> in its
> ancestry). Now, then, to me this would seem like one Hel of a Great
> Form
> Ancestor.
>
> Has anyone else given thought to this, or am I howling in the
> wilderness
> again?
>
>

Generally, it seems that Idol Worshipers use the standard spirits of Man.
I think there should be Great Ancestors, but the Storm power isn't
applicable, and they already have Divination. So, they'd need a new power
to gain, that wouldn't be too over powering.
My general problem is that the Ancestor spirits don't really DO much.
When you call up the spirit of an ancient tribal elder warrior, is he
gonna stand to teh sid and give you advice? That's why I came up with
Spirits of Combat. (the standard Ancestors are Spirits of Wisdom, and I
also have Spirits of Knowledge).

I was thinking of a "reanimation" power for some of hte spirits as a
Great Form. (and as a non-Voodoo form of zombie)
But, for a Spirit of Wisdom/Ancestor spirit, that wouldn't be
appropriate.
So, the question remains, what is the appropriate gift to these spirits?
(It doesn't have to be a power, but it needs something other than "+1 to
armor" :-)

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 3
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:46:12 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Nexx <nexx@********.net>
To: ShadowRN <ShadowRN@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, November 02, 2000 8:35 AM
Subject: Great Form Ancestors


>This is something that struck me on reading MitS (a while ago) was that
>Ancestor Spirits couldn't be great form. Personally, I'm at a loss to
>figure out why.
>
>As any medievalist around here knows (hey, I'm one... there could be
>others), many Kings, Heroes, and other such people traced their ancestry
>back to their Gods (e.g. the House of Windsor has Wotan buried deep in its
>ancestry). Now, then, to me this would seem like one Hel of a Great Form
>Ancestor.
>
>Has anyone else given thought to this, or am I howling in the wilderness
>again?
>


I hadn't, but I am now. I think there needs to be more on Ancestor spirits.
Imagine a free great form ancestor, maybe one who decides to run the dynasty
again. There has to be a run or two in that.
Message no. 4
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:49:40 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: vocenoctum@****.com <vocenoctum@****.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, November 02, 2000 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Great Form Ancestors



>I was thinking of a "reanimation" power for some of hte spirits as a
>Great Form. (and as a non-Voodoo form of zombie)
>But, for a Spirit of Wisdom/Ancestor spirit, that wouldn't be
>appropriate.
>So, the question remains, what is the appropriate gift to these spirits?
>(It doesn't have to be a power, but it needs something other than "+1 to
>armor" :-)
>

I think that it would have to be something that benefits the spirit's
living descendants rather than the spirit itself, in order to keep in line
with traditional ancestor worship. Perhaps some kind of luck power or
constant attribute boost while the spirit is nearby?
Message no. 5
From: Augustus shadowrun@********.net
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:15:18 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: Nexx <nexx@********.net>


> This is something that struck me on reading MitS (a while ago) was that
> Ancestor Spirits couldn't be great form. Personally, I'm at a loss to
> figure out why.
>
> As any medievalist around here knows (hey, I'm one... there could be
> others), many Kings, Heroes, and other such people traced their ancestry
> back to their Gods (e.g. the House of Windsor has Wotan buried deep in its
> ancestry). Now, then, to me this would seem like one Hel of a Great Form
> Ancestor.

A thought I had on this was... not really for gods... but wouldn't a past
"hero" qualify for what it would take to be a great form ancester spirit?

And not just leaving it there... but to include people like celebrities,
leaders, etc... to include people who had a significant impact on "things"
(I'm using the term things... to include, but not excluded to: society,
culture, the world, trends, even to include a big impact on your
city/neighborhood)

Just to account for things like... the difference between calling upon a
past family member who was a great community leader and might have gone on
to politics and done some real good... versus "Calling up old Uncle Joe...
the creepy guy with the lazy eye whose only contribution to the world was
the ass crease in the chair he used to watch "Happy Days" in"

But... none of my players were really in to anything like this (my
mage/shaman PCs have always had an aversion to conjuring... fear of the
drain I think it is)

Augustus
Message no. 6
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Great Form Ancestors
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:27:10 -0500
On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:49:40 +1100 "Simon and Fiona"
<sfuller@******.com.au> writes:
> >I was thinking of a "reanimation" power for some of hte spirits as
> a
> >Great Form. (and as a non-Voodoo form of zombie)
> >But, for a Spirit of Wisdom/Ancestor spirit, that wouldn't be
> >appropriate.
> >So, the question remains, what is the appropriate gift to these
> spirits?
> >(It doesn't have to be a power, but it needs something other than
> "+1 to
> >armor" :-)
> >
>
> I think that it would have to be something that benefits the
> spirit's
> living descendants rather than the spirit itself, in order to keep
> in line
> with traditional ancestor worship. Perhaps some kind of luck power
> or
> constant attribute boost while the spirit is nearby?

I have "Spirits of Knowledge" which are sorta based off of "Ghost
Masters". A spirit to train you, and the spirit can also lend you dice
for a skill relavant to the ancestor in question.
Perhaps as a great form, the spirit could add it's karma pool to that of
the conjurer's Karma Pool?


Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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