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Message no. 1
From: Kris Hamilton <kris@*******.COM>
Subject: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:58:25 -0500
Hello folks. Subscribed to this list a few weeks ago but my mail service is
unpredictable at the very very best of times so I haven't seen that many
messages, but it looks pretty cool. So please forgive me if I ask a
question twice, either I figured the message just didn't get out (happens
too much) or I didn't see the answer (again, happens too much).

I don't play the game itsself as much as I'd like to, but I love the basic
concept, the whole technology and magic operating in the same world, the
dystopian Gibson thing happening with the Tolkein stuff for flavor. Oh, I'm
an amateur writer and this is just great fodder for stories and such. (I've
also subscribed to ShadowTk)

And on to something relevant:
I'm guessing from the Tom Dowd stories that Harlequin is the 'Last Knight
of the Crying Spire' mentioned in the last item of Dunkelzahn's will (from
the recent sourcebook the name of which escapes me) It says Dunk wants
Halrequin to have Arthur's Excalibur (even tho Dunk didn't own it, must be
nice to be a dragon). So the Draco Foundation is offering a huge reward for
the whereabouts of this sword and on top of that is the possibility of
having Harlequin 'owe ya one.' What a group could do with
these resources simply boggles the mind.

Hey, there's a question in here too?
I'm wondering if any published material has (or will) announce the location
of the sword. If not I just wanted to brainstorm with you people as to a
good place to put the thing. Is there an Avalon in the Awakened world? If
so will Arthur himself come asking after it? Things along these lines.
Thanks,


Kris.
Message no. 2
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 10:26:51 +1000
> I don't play the game itsself as much as I'd like to, but I love the
basic
> concept, the whole technology and magic operating in the same world, the
> dystopian Gibson thing happening with the Tolkein stuff for flavor. Oh,
I'm
> an amateur writer and this is just great fodder for stories and such.
(I've
> also subscribed to ShadowTk)

Don't say it's Tolkein. That tends to upset a lot of people :) Seriously,
Tolkien was too namby pamby where elves and things were concerned.
Shadowrun is based on fantasy, but I'd say not on Tolkein.

> I'm guessing from the Tom Dowd stories that Harlequin is the 'Last Knight
> of the Crying Spire' mentioned in the last item of Dunkelzahn's will
(from

This is right.

> the recent sourcebook the name of which escapes me) It says Dunk wants

Portfolio of a Dragon.

> Halrequin to have Arthur's Excalibur (even tho Dunk didn't own it, must
be
> nice to be a dragon). So the Draco Foundation is offering a huge reward
for
> the whereabouts of this sword and on top of that is the possibility of
> having Harlequin 'owe ya one.' What a group could do with
> these resources simply boggles the mind.

The idea is to give it to Harlequin to have it help him save the world from
the Enemy I think. I don't know that he would end up owing any favours.

> Hey, there's a question in here too?
> I'm wondering if any published material has (or will) announce the
location

Nothing has been written telling the location. It is unlikely that
anything about it will appear in the future, as Mike Mulvhill (the
Shadowrun Line Developer) doesn't like the Immortal Elves or Horrors much.
This one will be left to individual GMs.

> of the sword. If not I just wanted to brainstorm with you people as to a
> good place to put the thing. Is there an Avalon in the Awakened world? If
> so will Arthur himself come asking after it? Things along these lines.
> Thanks,

You'd be surprised. The way some of the novels go with the Immortal Elves
being queens and kings and the like, Harlequin may well have been Arthur.
As for Avalon, no idea.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 3
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:57:22 EDT
On Sat, 24 May 1997 18:58:25 -0500 Kris Hamilton <kris@*******.COM>
writes:
<snipper>
>Hey, there's a question in here too?
>I'm wondering if any published material has (or will) announce the
location
>of the sword. If not I just wanted to brainstorm with you people as to a
>good place to put the thing. Is there an Avalon in the Awakened world?
If
>so will Arthur himself come asking after it? Things along these lines.
>Thanks,


Truth is, no-one (save Mr. Mulvihill and any of his cronies he's let in
on the secret) knows what items from D's Secrets will be used. We were
only told that ten would be used, five or so were talked about in the
fiction in the back of the book. That still leaves a few, of those
Excalibur is certainly one of them, but we still don't know for sure. I'm
more interested in "where a Rock meets the Sky," as this is one the PCs
should know about, even if they never see the rest of the will. (could it
be Aires Rock? the Matterhorn? a meteor crater?) Does anyone know of
anyplace named "Skyrock," presumably in some language other than English?


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 4
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 21:25:36 EDT
On Sun, 25 May 1997 10:26:51 +1000 Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
writes:
[...]
>Don't say it's Tolkein. That tends to upset a lot of people :)
>Seriously,
>Tolkien was too namby pamby where elves and things were concerned.
>Shadowrun is based on fantasy, but I'd say not on Tolkein.


Actually, I think you'll find that it is based a lot on Tolkien, at least
where elves are concerned. Namby-pamby or not, Tolkien really created the
notion of the elf as a fair, tall, thin etc. . . Myth, on the other hand,
generally regarded elves as fairies/sprites/etc. Short, childlike, fair,
thin, but definitely not tall. Even though much of the rest of the basis
for Shadowrun's fantasy element doesn't come from Tolkien (well, orks and
trolls also seem to be based off of Tolkien references), Tolkien quite
heavily influenced the way many people think about elves. While I don't
believe that the IE should go anywhere near the 'save the world' use as
an element of SR, I do think they make for a nice plot device along the
lines of an 'Illuminati'-type organisation, to (try to) control things
from behind the scenes. I don't agree with how the IE was made into every
other exceptional person from ages past (kings, queens, Leonardo Da
Vinci, etc). They will never be used like that in my game. On the other
hand, they do constitue a major element in SR, as background players,
like the Great Dragons.

[...]

>> Hey, there's a question in here too?
>> I'm wondering if any published material has (or will) announce the
>location
>
>Nothing has been written telling the location. It is unlikely that
>anything about it will appear in the future, as Mike Mulvhill (the
>Shadowrun Line Developer) doesn't like the Immortal Elves or Horrors
>much.
>This one will be left to individual GMs.


Could be, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised to find a piece of
fiction, a novel, written on it. I think that if they're going to use it,
they'll use it within the next few years, give the sword to the H-man,
and we probably won't hear of it again. Which will be much the preferred
path to me. That gives a definite end to it, takes care of the thing, and
takes care of it until the Horrors return (which won't happen for a very
long time, if Mike has any say in things).

<snip>
>You'd be surprised. The way some of the novels go with the Immortal
>Elves
>being queens and kings and the like, Harlequin may well have been
>Arthur.
>As for Avalon, no idea.


I'd much prefer for Arthur to be a separate, real person. I don't think
that it would be right for Harleqiun to be the Once and Future King. Now,
it does make sense, sort of, I just don't like the idea...what if
Harlequinn were Merlin? That, I could live with...I guess...


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 5
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:25:27 +1000
> Truth is, no-one (save Mr. Mulvihill and any of his cronies he's let in
> on the secret) knows what items from D's Secrets will be used. We were
> only told that ten would be used, five or so were talked about in the
> fiction in the back of the book. That still leaves a few, of those
> Excalibur is certainly one of them, but we still don't know for sure. I'm
> more interested in "where a Rock meets the Sky," as this is one the PCs
> should know about, even if they never see the rest of the will. (could it
> be Aires Rock? the Matterhorn? a meteor crater?) Does anyone know of
> anyplace named "Skyrock," presumably in some language other than English?
>

Hmmm, Ayres Rock (more correctly called Uluru) is a possibility.....don't
really know why it'd be that significant, though

I wish I knew what Uluru actually means.

Marty
Message no. 6
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:43:25 -0400
At 06:58 PM 5/24/97 -0500, Kris Hamilton wrote these timeless words:
>Hello folks. Subscribed to this list a few weeks ago but my mail service is
>unpredictable at the very very best of times so I haven't seen that many
>messages, but it looks pretty cool. So please forgive me if I ask a
>question twice, either I figured the message just didn't get out (happens
>too much) or I didn't see the answer (again, happens too much).
>
Well, time to do my duty and earn my keep around here, so....

+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED

Hello there, new list-member Kris! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!

It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!

+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v2.1 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #410

Are you or aren't you?

+++++ END AUTO GREET

>I don't play the game itsself as much as I'd like to, but I love the basic
>concept, the whole technology and magic operating in the same world, the
>dystopian Gibson thing happening with the Tolkein stuff for flavor. Oh, I'm
>an amateur writer and this is just great fodder for stories and such. (I've
>also subscribed to ShadowTk)
>
It is fun to write about the world, as it's such a rich and full world and
background to work with.

Fro? I believe this is a cue to plug The Shadowrun Supplemental, tell Kris
to download it, and tell him (her?) to submit some stuff...:]

>And on to something relevant:
>I'm guessing from the Tom Dowd stories that Harlequin is the 'Last Knight
>of the Crying Spire' mentioned in the last item of Dunkelzahn's will (from
>the recent sourcebook the name of which escapes me) It says Dunk wants
>Halrequin to have Arthur's Excalibur (even tho Dunk didn't own it, must be
>nice to be a dragon). So the Draco Foundation is offering a huge reward for
>the whereabouts of this sword and on top of that is the possibility of
>having Harlequin 'owe ya one.' What a group could do with
>these resources simply boggles the mind.
>
<grin>

Dunky's Will is, IMNSHO, one of the best sources of ideas for runs that
FASA has ever put out. Stuck for ideas? Just whip out the book and scan
it. Maybe the runners want to fulfill a request for the cash, or maybe a
Johnson wants them to get one of the "items' for him.

We've recently started a new campaign where we're playing a Merc team
that's been hired by the Draco Foundation and made "Special Operatives".
The whole campign is based on fulfilling these items and requests.

I've also stolen a couple ideas for a new campign that I'm running.

>Hey, there's a question in here too?
>I'm wondering if any published material has (or will) announce the location
>of the sword. If not I just wanted to brainstorm with you people as to a
>good place to put the thing. Is there an Avalon in the Awakened world? If
>so will Arthur himself come asking after it? Things along these lines.
>Thanks,
>
Nothing yet, and while it is possible that FASA will publish stuff on this
(Eiether as a story or a module), I doubt it. Instead, I think it's there
as a springboard for GM's to come up with their own stories and adventures
based on it.

As for Avalon, it's never been mentioned before, though it is possible.
Once again, you're mostly on your own in creating this, though feel free to
ask us for help or bounce ideas off us. that's what we're here for...:]

Bull-the-happy-friendly-completely-whacked-out-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 7
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:43:29 -0400
At 10:26 AM 5/25/97 +1000, Ray & Tamara wrote these timeless words:
>> I don't play the game itsself as much as I'd like to, but I love the
>basic
>> concept, the whole technology and magic operating in the same world, the
>> dystopian Gibson thing happening with the Tolkein stuff for flavor. Oh,
>I'm
>> an amateur writer and this is just great fodder for stories and such.
>(I've
>> also subscribed to ShadowTk)
>
>Don't say it's Tolkein. That tends to upset a lot of people :) Seriously,
>Tolkien was too namby pamby where elves and things were concerned.
>Shadowrun is based on fantasy, but I'd say not on Tolkein.
>
Actually, I'd have to disagree.

Most of modern fantasy borrows the majority of it's elements from Tolkien.
Especially the Elves. Fantasy is based mostly on fables and myths, of
course. However, in most of theses stories, Elves are tiny little faeries
with magical powers. More like what is more commonly called Pixies and
Sprites (also terms for the same mythilogoical elevs) in Modern fantasy.

Tolkien was one of the first to make Elves a Human sized race, and to give
them the background that they have (Elven Nations, Longevity, etc). In
fact, SR Elves are mush closer to Tolkeins elves than TSR's Elves, Toliens
elevs were very slender and taller than humans, on average, while TSR made
the Elevs a bit smaller than Humans.

Also, SR Trolls are somewhat similar to Tolkeins Trolls, ayt least in
appearnce. Much mroe so than most Fantasy Trolls, which usually resemble
TSR's anerexic, carrot nosed, regenerating Troll.

<shrug>

However, in the Game, Tolkien is mostly reviled by Metahumans, because of
the way he portryas the elves and magic and such.

<shrig>

Just my couple nuyen

Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 8
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 04:47:42 -0400
>>Tolkien really created the notion of the elf as a fair, tall, thin etc. . .
Myth, on the other hand, generally regarded elves as fairies/sprites/etc.
Short, childlike, fair, thin, but definitely not tall.

Perhaps 'tis ye're thinkin' of the wee leprechauns and all, darlin'. ;-)
I.e., late Irish myth. Shakespeare's Oberon and Titania were human-sized, and
the Tuatha De Danann were no midgets. I believe that Norse Vanir were the
source of Tolkien's elves (but I'm not certain).

and kris@*******.COM (Kris Hamilton) wrote:
>> I'm guessing from the Tom Dowd stories that Harlequin is the 'Last Knight
> of the Crying Spire' mentioned in the last item of Dunkelzahn's will....

I hadn't read the book. Now from things my GM has hinted, I know more than I
wanted. When discussing plot stuff, consider using a "spoiler space". Not a
flame, just a request. ;-) Welcome to the list. Oh, wait, that's Bull's
job....

Smilin' Ted
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 11:18:42 +0100
L Canthros said on 21:25/24 May 97...

> I'd much prefer for Arthur to be a separate, real person. I don't think
> that it would be right for Harleqiun to be the Once and Future King. Now,
> it does make sense, sort of, I just don't like the idea...what if
> Harlequinn were Merlin? That, I could live with...I guess...

Has anyone read The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell? I'm about 4/5ths
through the book now, and though I've never read any of the "real" Arthur
stories, this one does sound very believable (though the author clearly
states it's fiction, but based on research into the Dark Ages) and might
be an interesting read for a "search for Excalibur" adventure.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If you never write anything down then no one knows exactly what you
said so you can always change it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:36:52 +1000
> On Sun, 25 May 1997 10:26:51 +1000 Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
> writes:
> [...]
> >Don't say it's Tolkein. That tends to upset a lot of people :)
> >Seriously,
> >Tolkien was too namby pamby where elves and things were concerned.
> >Shadowrun is based on fantasy, but I'd say not on Tolkein.
>
>
> Actually, I think you'll find that it is based a lot on Tolkien, at least
> where elves are concerned. Namby-pamby or not, Tolkien really created the
> notion of the elf as a fair, tall, thin etc. . . Myth, on the other hand,
> generally regarded elves as fairies/sprites/etc. Short, childlike, fair,
> thin, but definitely not tall. Even though much of the rest of the basis

All right, you could be right. You and Bull have both disagreed with me.

<snip>
> >You'd be surprised. The way some of the novels go with the Immortal
> >Elves
> >being queens and kings and the like, Harlequin may well have been
> >Arthur.
> >As for Avalon, no idea.
>
> I'd much prefer for Arthur to be a separate, real person. I don't think
> that it would be right for Harleqiun to be the Once and Future King. Now,
> it does make sense, sort of, I just don't like the idea...what if
> Harlequinn were Merlin? That, I could live with...I guess...

Well, I was just having a go at the tendency for every second famous person
from History secretly being an Immortal Elf. I don't seriously think that
the idea would ever be used.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 11
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 22:31:14 +1000
> > Truth is, no-one (save Mr. Mulvihill and any of his cronies he's let in
> > on the secret) knows what items from D's Secrets will be used. We were
> > only told that ten would be used, five or so were talked about in the
> > fiction in the back of the book. That still leaves a few, of those
> > Excalibur is certainly one of them, but we still don't know for sure.
I'm
> > more interested in "where a Rock meets the Sky," as this is one the
PCs
> > should know about, even if they never see the rest of the will. (could
it
> > be Aires Rock? the Matterhorn? a meteor crater?) Does anyone know of
> > anyplace named "Skyrock," presumably in some language other than
English?
> >
>
> Hmmm, Ayres Rock (more correctly called Uluru) is a possibility.....don't
> really know why it'd be that significant, though
>
> I wish I knew what Uluru actually means.

Uluru doesn't mean anything. It's just an aboriginal name. It doesn't
mean anything other than being the name of that big rock.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 12
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:43:26 +0100
In message <199705250038.KAA20371@*****.cynergy.com.au>, Ray & Tamara
<macey@*******.COM.AU> writes
>Don't say it's Tolkein. That tends to upset a lot of people :) Seriously,
>Tolkien was too namby pamby where elves and things were concerned.
>Shadowrun is based on fantasy, but I'd say not on Tolkein.

I don't know: reading the Silmarillion didn't give me the impression
that Tolkein's Elves were "namby pamby". The sons of Feanor were
downright vicious...


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 13
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:53:08 +1000
> Has anyone read The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell? I'm about 4/5ths
> through the book now, and though I've never read any of the "real" Arthur
> stories, this one does sound very believable (though the author clearly
> states it's fiction, but based on research into the Dark Ages) and might
> be an interesting read for a "search for Excalibur" adventure.

On that note (and this is only slightly OT), does anyone have some
suggestions for genuine Arthurian research sources? I've read all manner
of fantasy based on the Arthurian legend (Mary Stuart, that Mists of
Avalon feminist stuff, the Keltiad, the Fionavar Tapestry) and I think
I've got a fair interpretation of the myths, but I'd like some genuine
research sources to back that up. I've got a few Arthur-related
adventure ideas that I can basically use in any game system, but I want
what little historical info there *is* behind me.


Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:55:44 EDT
On Sun, 25 May 1997 04:47:42 -0400 Tuvyah@***.COM writes:
>>>Tolkien really created the notion of the elf as a fair, tall, thin
>etc. . .
>Myth, on the other hand, generally regarded elves as
>fairies/sprites/etc.
>Short, childlike, fair, thin, but definitely not tall.
>
>Perhaps 'tis ye're thinkin' of the wee leprechauns and all, darlin'. ;-)
>I.e., late Irish myth. Shakespeare's Oberon and Titania were
human-sized, and
>the Tuatha De Danann were no midgets. I believe that Norse Vanir were
the
>source of Tolkien's elves (but I'm not certain).


Ah, but Oberon and Titania were the _rulers_ of the faeries, and not
normal elves, per se. I'm not sure who the Tuatha De Danann are, and I
don't know anything at all about the Norse Vanir, What I know of
Teutonic/Norse myth comes from a sparse account in an encyclopedia and
from a couple of Mickey Zucker Reichert's Renshai novels...


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 15
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:06:43 +0100
In article <199705250918.LAA02049@**********.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about greetings and the search
for Excalibur
>L Canthros said on 21:25/24 May 97...
>
>> I'd much prefer for Arthur to be a separate, real person. I don't think
>> that it would be right for Harleqiun to be the Once and Future King. Now,
>> it does make sense, sort of, I just don't like the idea...what if
>> Harlequinn were Merlin? That, I could live with...I guess...

Harlequin is almost certainly *not* Merlin. :) Merlin was not an elf,
never, not once, is it not mentioned anywhere that he was an elf, or
even vaguely hinted at. He was human and a Druid, one of the most
powerful druids in Britain, second only to the Lady of Avalon. And as
for Harlequin being the once and future king, I for one will scream very
loudly if that were to come to pass - though somehow, I doubt that will
happen. :)

>Has anyone read The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell? I'm about 4/5ths
>through the book now, and though I've never read any of the "real" Arthur
>stories, this one does sound very believable (though the author clearly
>states it's fiction, but based on research into the Dark Ages) and might
>be an interesting read for a "search for Excalibur" adventure.

There's two other books, that I like to use for reference, they are:

The Mists of Avalon - Marion Bradley (1984) ISBN 0-7221-1957-7 although
told from the view of Morgaine, and based more in magic, it's an
excellent story of British legend, and

Down the Long Wind - Gillian Bradshaw (1988) ISBN 0-413-17610-x another
Arthurian legend that get's a little heavy with the gaelic names but is
an interesting read of Arthur's Britain.

Both books will give some idea of the legend surrounding Arthur, one of
the better movies that can also be used for reference is "Excalibur" I
can't remember the director, John Borman I think, but it also adds a bit
of insight into the legend from a more British rather than puritanical
Disney/American view. Kindly ignore First Knight altogether, as that
completely rewrote the legend and turned it into a Richard Gere tongue
fest.

There are a few web sites in Britain dedicated to the Arthurian legend,
a net search should reveal some of them. Including the huge argument as
to Camelot's actual location. :)

Possible Spoiler Space <??>

Page down.. if you're allowed. :)

























A bit further :)









As regards whether Avalon exists in the sixth world, it is an island of
legend, with it's roots based in magic, run by magic, and hidden by
magic, so it would seem reasonable to assume that at some time in the
sixth world it's going to reappear. Whether the mana level is high
enough at the moment, is another question.

My only gripe with the D:POAD is that I'm curious to know how Dunky got
the darned sword. Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
Excalibur was returned to the Lady of the Lake by Sir Percival the Pure,
(though some would have Percival dead, grieving for Galahad who was
raised by a host of angels after finding the Holy Grail, and the sword
returned by Bedivere) and is held by Avalon and "The Lady" for the
return of the King. Arthur himself was delivered to the Black Shroud
boat of Avalon by Sir Bedivere. Nearly every story of the Arthurian
legend returns Excalibur to The Lady, except one that I'm aware of,
which has Excalibur broken at the death battle of Arthur and Mordred. As
a result of this breaking, Excalibur turns to dust.

Although Excalibur is rumoured in some areas to have been made by
Dwarfs, along with the Ring of Odin and a number of other magical swords
and spears. I still don't see how Dunky got it.


An excerpt from Arthurian legend:

King Arthur's sword, Excalibur, a supreme example of the swordsmith's
art was handed to him by a hand and arm clothed in white samite which
appeared out of a lonely lake. Excalibur was so magnificently wrought
that when Arthur was dying, and he commanded Sir Bedivere (or Percival)
to throw the sword back into the lake, the knight could not bring
himself to do it. All the haft twinkled with diamond sparks, myriads of
topaz lights and jacinth - works of subtlest jewellery and the blade was
strangely and curiously engraved. He hid the sword twice instead of
throwing it into the water, but Arthur sensed his disobedience and on
the third command, Sir Bedivere flung Excalibur over the lake. The
great blade flashed like lightning in the moonlight, whirling and
turning until it fell hilt first towards the dark waters. An arm rose
out of the water, caught Excalibur and brandished it three times before
sword and arm disappeared forever.
(Michael Page & Robert Ingpen)

Shortly after the return of the sword, the Black Shroud boat from Avalon
was noticed and Bedivere delivered Arthur's body to the three mourning
women, who then transported him to Avalon where he awaits his need.

It is led that Arthur will return from Avalon when Britain is at it's
greatest need, which means the sword will be delivered to him when he
appears at the shores of Avalon and requests it from The Lady. So, how
did a Dunky get it, unless of course he's a transvestite or something
and what's it doing in the UCAS, several thousand miles from the UK, or
should I read the Secrets book again? Or maybe the FASA writers have
been watching Gargoyles <grin>

"Unfortunately I can't find it at the moment" <unquote> is not even
funny. I do appreciate that the Dragon has been the standard of England
for centuries, which means it's possible in the fourth world for Dunky
to have been here, but even so, he doesn't fit in the legend, nowhere.
The Lady, arm, sword and lake belong to Avalon, not Dunklezahn.

Okay, maybe I'm being a little too purist, but still... :(


Anyway...

Just for the record, a little bit about Avalon:


The abode of heroes, more correctly written as Ynys yr Affalon, which in
the Welsh language means "Isle of Apples". The Island lies in the
centre of a great lake whose still waters gleam like blue steel, and are
surrounded by dark forests. A hero slain in battle must find his painful
way through these forests until he reaches the shores of the lake, where
a boat draped in a black cloth awaits him with a mysterious woman
sitting silently at the helm.

The boat glides across to the island without causing a ripple on the
still waters, and as it approaches Avalon the hero's gaping wounds
become whole again. With all his manly vigour restored to him, he steps
onto the beautiful island, where the sun always shines and rough weather
is unknown. Orchards of apple trees laden with glowing fruit rise up
from the water's edge and as he walks amongst them the grass is like a
soft green lawn beneath his feet.

Towards the centre of the island there are silent forests with flowery
glades, filled with peace such as men will never know on Earth. When
the dead hero wanders contentedly through this forest he slowly becomes
aware of the other inhabitants of the island. heroes like himself who
have died in the defence of right against the powers of darkness,
together with a race of beautiful women who are the keepers of the magic
which inspires mankind with charity, courage, kindliness and pure-
hearted love.

In the depths of the forest is a small church built by Joseph of
Arimathea*, and it is here that the hero finds the supreme joy of
worshipping the creator who gave him, during life, the strength to
combat evil and defy the oppressor.

Unless you go with Marion Bradley's more functional view of magical
Avalon. :)


* - Joseph of Arimathea is the reputed keeper of the Holy Grail. It is
supposedly stored in the church on Avalon. During the search for the
Grail, Sir Galahad, Sir Bedivere and Sir Percival were the only knights
of 150 to survive the gruelling quest. Encountering Joseph, he showed
them the grail. Galahad on perceiving the Grail begged to be
transported to heaven, he was raised to heaven by a host of Angels,
Percival grieving for Galahad, died in the area, and Sir Bedivere
returned to Arthur to tell him the quest had been successful, restoring
Arthurs belief/faith, and once again bringing prosperity and peace to
England, as Arthur recovered from his sickness and rode out from Camelot
amongst the people.


Anyway, hope that helps, I guess I've waffled a bit again, sorry :)

--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
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| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 16
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 04:35:50 +0100
In article <Pine.BSF.3.95.970526075023.14640A-
100000@*******.dialix.com.au>, Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> rambled on endlessly about greetings and
the search for Excalibur

Hiya J. :)

>On that note (and this is only slightly OT), does anyone have some
>suggestions for genuine Arthurian research sources? I've read all manner
>of fantasy based on the Arthurian legend (Mary Stuart, that Mists of
>Avalon feminist stuff, the Keltiad, the Fionavar Tapestry) and I think
>I've got a fair interpretation of the myths, but I'd like some genuine
>research sources to back that up. I've got a few Arthur-related
>adventure ideas that I can basically use in any game system, but I want
>what little historical info there *is* behind me.

At the risk of getting myself shouted at by someone, I've decided to
post the links here in the list rather than privately, after all,
someone else might be interested.

This is a direct dump from one of my research folders so apologies if
one or two of the links are duplicated. Some of the links may also be
dead, it's been a while since I used these. AIA if a few are.

Though this isn't a comprehensive coverage of the Arthurian legend on
the Net, it will get anyone interested started off, and links are
present on some of the pages to further areas.

Hopefully this is of some use

-------------- ( begin links ) ---------------------

Morris's "The Defence of Guenevere"
<http://rodent.lib.rochester.edu/Camelot/defguin.htm>;

King Arthur and Related Subjects <http://prism.prs.k12.nj.us/WWW/kingart
hur.html>

Note on Camelot <http://www.vmi.edu/~gen/camelot.html>;

The Legend of Camelot <http://www.itl.net/features/camelot/heritage/gawa
in.html>

Extract from "Arturius - A Quest for Camelot" <http://www.webworld.co.uk
/mall/arthur/extract.html>

The Cardiff Arthurian's Link Page <http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/archi/howsha
ll/arthurm/arthbook.html>

The Legend of the Holy Grail <http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/%7Ejgriffin/
>

The song of the Knights of Camelot **** **** from Monty Python and the
Holy <http://www.fsu.umd.edu/students/COSC230/jharriso/www/moviepage/kni
ghtsround.txt>

Camelot Knight vs The Green Knight <http://www.itl.net/features/camelot/
catwhisk/knights.html>

Merlin - 53 <http://dc.smu.edu/Arthuriana/littleton.html>;

King Arthur: History and Legend <http://www.britannia.com/history/h12.ht
ml>

the legend of king arthur <http://www.webworld.co.uk/mall/arthur/>;

Rethinking Camelot: Chapter 1 [1/27] <http://www.caq.com/archive/rc/rc-
c01-s01.html>

GURPS Camelot <http://www.io.com/sjgames/gurps/books/Camelot/>;
(Yeah I know, but what the heck, somebody had to do it) :)

THE CAMELOT PROJECT at the UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER <http://rodent.lib.ro
chester.edu/camelot/CPHOME.htm>;

Island of Avalon <http://www.island-of-avalon.com/>;

Avalon: Arthurian Heaven <http://reality.sgi.com/employees/chris_manches
ter/arthur.html>

Avalon 2000 Large Map <http://www.somerset.gov.uk/museums/AVLON2.HTM>;

Avalon: The Golden Age. <http://www.avalon-rpg.com/history/golden.html>;

The Towers of Avalon FTP & Documents <http://www.neca.com/~ice/avalon/ft
p.html>

The Holy Isle of Avalon <http://wilbur.wellesley.edu/A-
M/chazen/chazen.html>

Avalon: <http://sensei.co.uk/avalon>;

Glastonbury Abbey <http://www.britannia.com/history/abbey.html>;

Terra's Arthurian Legend Page <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/
Collver_Home_Page/taruthur.htm>

Arthurian Legends <http://www.hamline.edu/~jltidbal/grail_html/metafront
.html>

Arthurian Legends [uiuc.edu] <http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Edu/RSE/RSEblue/a
rthur/artidu.html>

Arthurian Legend Home Page <http://www.vmi.edu/%7Eenglish/arthur.html>;

The Cardiff Arthurian's Link Page <http://www.cf.ac.uk/uwcc/archi/howsha
ll/arthurm/arthbook.html>

King Arthur: History and Legend <http://www.britannia.com/history/h12.ht
ml>

Myths and Legends <http://pubpages.unh.edu/%7Ecbsiren/myth.html>;

My Arthurian Legend Page <http://radon.gas.uug.arizona.edu/~dkf/arthur.h
tml>

historical background of Arthurian legen... <http://www.vegsource.com/ww
wboard/books/messages/297.html>

Yahoo! UK & Ireland - Arts:Humanitie... <http://www.yahoo.co.uk/text/Art
s/Humanities/Books_and_Literature/Genres/Medieval/Arthurian_Studies/>

Re: historical background of Arthurian l... <http://www.vegsource.com/ww
wboard/books/messages/300.html>

FeySidhe's Arthurian and Medieval Page <http://www.io.com/%7Efeysidhe/fe
ysidhe.html>

The Legend of the Holy Grail <http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/%7Ejgriffin/
>

The Sword in the Stone, by T. H. White <http://oscar.teclink.net/%7Emoul
der/swordint.html>

Wendy's Arthurian Page <http://www-scf.usc.edu/%7Ewolk/Arthur.html>;

Ruadhgynt's A & A Writings Page: Lost & Legendary... <http://www.2cfx.co
m/lifesmart/>

SOURCES FOR THE STUDY OF THE ARTHURIAN LEGENDS <http://rodent.lib.roches
ter.edu/camelot/genbib.htm>;

Arthurian Booklist (rec.arts.books) <http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hyper
text/faq/usenet/books/arthurian/faq.html>

Bibliography <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Collver_Home_Page
/ArthBibl.htm>

Cybergrrl's Favorite Things - Arthurian Legend <http://www.cybergrrl.com
/world/things/arthurian.html>

Arthurian Booklist <http://www.zmall.com/bmm/books-faq/arthurian.html>;

Catholic Encyclopedia: GRAIL, THE HOLY <http://www.knight.org/advent/cat
hen/06719a.htm>

Arthurian Legend. <http://www.pro-ops.com/legendlane/llartleg.htm>;

Arthurian Legend Timetable <http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/~gans/arthur.htm
l>

Arthurian Legend <http://www.salc.wsu.edu/classes/english/arthurian.html
>

Once Arthurian Legend & Literature King Arthur and a Future King Arthur
<http://www.generation.net/~grail/arthuria.htm>;

Many Realms of King Arthur Bibliography <http://www-lib.iupui.edu/libinf
o/arthurbib.html>

Anglo-Saxon England <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Melanie_We
b_Site/anglo-sa.htm>

The Changing Role of Women in the Arthurian Legend <http://ourworld.comp
userve.com/homepages/Collver_Home_Page/AThesis.htm>;

The Arthurian Legend <http://www.luhsd.k12.ca.us/library/king_art.html>;

The list below is about King Arthur and Camelot. = <http://calvin.stemne
t.nf.ca/~djohnsto/arthur/arthbook.txt>;

Celtic Tree and Flower Medicine <http://www.infolynk.com/psychicweb/fore
st.htm>

Tales from Wales - The story of Castell Dinas Bran <http://www.ursaminr.
demon.co.uk/tales/dinas.htm>;

Of Dragons and the Stone <http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/%7Eald/>;

Brittany <http://www.itl.net/features/camelot/heritage/brittany.html>;

Arthuriana in Brittany <http://www.stemnet.nf.ca/%7Edjohnsto/artbrit.htm
l>

The Ancient Druid Order (B.C.U.B.) <http://www.qed.net/bonewits/AODbookl
et.HTML>

The Round Table : Home Page <http://www.linxttime.com/>;

Celtic Motifs in Arthurian Legend Arthurian Legend was developed long
<http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/celtic/celtic.html>;

Women in the Arthurian Legend <http://bcn.boulder.co.us/library/bpl/chil
d/booklook/women.html>

Arthur: the Matter of Britain <http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/arthur.shtm
l>

Wendy's Arthurian Page <http://www-scf.usc.edu/~wolk/Arthur.html>;

King Arthur on the Internet <http://www.hokusei.ac.jp/~l95044/English/ar
thur.html>

Arthurian Links <http://www.ais.org/~paxton/artlinks.html>;

The Mighty Sword Excalibur <http://lei.net/sprawl/27773>;

Bibliography of Post-Medieval Arthurian Literature Other than Fiction
<http://rodent.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/pobib.htm>;

The Quest: Arthurian Legend Studies (page maintained by Caliburn)
<http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/index.html>;

Chronolgy of Arthurian Literature <http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepa
ges/Collver_Home_Page/chronolg.htm>

Llewellyn Religion and Mythology <http://www.llewellyn.com/xrelig.htm>;

Arthurian Origins <http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/o
rigins/arthur.html>

Arthurian Links Elsewhere <http://users.ox.ac.uk/~arthsoc/links.html>;

Reference Works <http://www.lib.montana.edu/~slainte/reference.html>;

Celtic Books: Arthurian. The largest selection of Arthurian books
online. Let <http://www.dragonwood.com/celtarbk.htm>;

Arthurian Sites <http://csis.pace.edu/grendel/proj2a/sites.html>;

KING ARTHUR: TEXTS, IMAGES, BASIC INFORMATION <http://rodent.lib.rochest
er.edu/camelot/arthmenu.htm>;

Index of Mythology on the Web <http://www.unm.edu/%7Erkoshak/>;

The Arthurian legends. <http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/arthur.html>;

Arthurian Bibliography Home Page <http://dcwww.mediasvcs.smu.edu/arthuri
ana/bibliography/>

King Arthur <http://www.etoile.demon.co.uk/Arthur.html>;

The Gawain Paper <http://www-scf.usc.edu/~wolk/gawain.html>;

Arthurian Legends <http://141.142.3.131/Edu/RSE/RSEblue1.html>;

The Once and Future Legend: Writing GURPS Camelot <http://www.io.com/~ar
cangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer24/CamelotDesignersArticle.html>

King Arthur On the Internet <http://www.lib.montana.edu/~slainte/intart.
html>

MYTHOLOGY <http://www.prospernet.com/surfing/culture/mythology.html>;

Arthurian Legends <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3786/>;

Servants of the Light - Recommended Arthurian Reading <http://www.algone
t.se/~sol_swe/literature/arthurian.html>;

Arthurian Lore <http://dana.ucc.nau.edu/~ald/arthur.html>;

Glastonbury <http://www-students.biola.edu/~williams/Travel/glastonbury.
html>

Arthurian Films: Excalibur <http://users.ox.ac.uk/~arthsoc/Cauldron/exca
li.html>

Mythology Related WW & FTP Sites <http://www.io.org/~untangle/ftpsites.h
tm>

An Arthurian FAQ <http://arthurpendragon.ukonline.co.uk/artfaq.html>;

SPRING 1992 HISTORY 323: ARTHUR'S BRITAIN LYNN H. NELSON 2011 WESCOE
OFFICE <http://www.cc.ukans.edu/ftp/pub/history/Europe/Medieval/bibliogr
aphies/arthur.bib>

ABOUT ORB <http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/kansas/orb/bibliographies/arthur.h
tml>

MERLIN: TEXTS, IMAGES, BASIC INFORMATION <http://rodent.lib.rochester.ed
u/camelot/MERLMENU.HTM>

Stonehenge <http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html>;

Perceval, or the Story of the Grail <http://www.mcelhearn.com/grail.html
>

Allegories of the Holy Grail <http://marlowe.wimsey.com/~rshand/streams/
gnosis/grail.html>

Genre Fiction: Folk & Fairy Tales <http://www.vmedia.com/alternate/shann
on/folk.html>

Arthurian Literature for Children and Young Adults <http://funnelweb.utc
c.utk.edu/~etsulliv/arthur.htm>;

CELTIC STUDIES BIBLIOGRAPHY <http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/celtic/ww
wbib995.html>

Knighthood, Chivalry & Tournament Glossary of Terms <http://www.chroniqu
e.com/Library/Glossaries/glossary-KCT/gloss_c.htm>;

King Arthur Uther Pendragon - front page <http://arthurpendragon.ukonlin
e.co.uk/>;

Excalibur: Britain's Greatest Heroes <http://titan.neca.com/~excalibur/m
ain.html>

The Legend of King Arthur - Mystery Solved <http://www.webworld.co.uk/ma
ll/arthur/mystery.html>

King Arthur Links <http://prism.prs.k12.nj.us/WWW/arthurlinks.html>;

Percy's The Legend of King Arthur <http://rodent.lib.rochester.edu/Camel
ot/percyleg.htm>

King Arthur and King Cornwall <http://rodent.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/t
eams/corn.htm>

The Legend of King Arthur <http://wray.uoknor.edu/alison/writing/arthur.
htm>

King Arthur Pendragon -- (c) 1994, 1996 Peter Corless "He might be
picked <http://www.employees.org/~pcorless/pendragon/arthur.txt>;

Science Fiction and Fantasy Mailing List Archives: King Arthur
<http://goodstuff.prodigy.com/lists/sci-fi-fantasy/0174.html>;

The Myths and Legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table
<http://www.smartlink.net/~yesman/myths.and.legends.txt>;

Project Gutenberg's Etext of Idylls of the King by Tennyson** #1 in our
<http://ftp.sunet.se/ftp/pub/etext/gutenberg/etext96/idyll10.txt>;



--
Dark Avenger - A Dark Shadow in a Dark World
--------------------------------------------------------
| Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk containing |
| the Alternative UK Sourcebook & Newcomers Guide to Stk.|
| (Microsoft Site Builder/Web Developer - Level 2.) |
| I'm not a Geek - I'm a Bill Gates extra-terrestrial |
--------------------------------------------------------
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of e-mail
Message no. 17
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 04:03:56 -0400
L. Canthros writes:

>I'm not sure who the Tuatha De Danann are, and I don't know anything at all
about the Norse Vanir....

The Tuatha are one of the groups of pre-Christian Irish gods. The name means
"Children of [the goddess] Danu", and they're often associated with elves and
fairies, the idea being that they waned into fairydom with the coming of
Christianity.

(BTW, for those who've read the Tir Na n'Og sourcebook, the Tuatha invaded
Ireland from the four cities that were their home -- Findias, Murias, Gorias,
and Falias. IIRC, these are mentioned in the "Ways and Paths"....)

The Vanir were rivals to the main bunch of Norse gods, the Aesir (Odin, Thor,
Baldur, and that lot). They were associated with earth, wealth, and
fertility, and I've seen them compared to elves (if only I could remember
where). They were powerful, magical, but not deserving of the same level of
worship as the Aesir.

Anyway, my point was just that, genius though he was, Tolkien drew on A LOT
of Celtic, Germanic, and Scandinavian sources for his work (he was a
professor of philology, after all) and I believe "Tolkien elves" were in
there somewhere; they were never exclusively the little shrimps with insect
wings on their backs.

Smilin' Ted
Message no. 18
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 00:27:40 -1000
>Harlequin is Merlin?
No. Although I can't prove it's him, I think that Merlin and Harlequin
are talking in the beginning of VR2.0.

>Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>"Black IC!!! You bloated code! You sick little program! I will DELETE
YOU!!!!"
Message no. 19
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:19:49 +0200
On Mon, 26 May 1997 07:53:08 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:

>On that note (and this is only slightly OT), does anyone have some
>suggestions for genuine Arthurian research sources?

I do have some. I just did a quich search on the word "artus" in titles
in my university's library and got 50 results.
I could mail you these, if you want to, but if you know german (or at
least enough to use the search engine of said library) you can take a
look yourself.

Just telnet to opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de and follow the on-screen
directions.
Have fun,


--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
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Message no. 20
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:04:25 EDT
On Mon, 26 May 1997 07:53:08 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
<snip>
>On that note (and this is only slightly OT), does anyone have some
>suggestions for genuine Arthurian research sources? I've read all manner
>of fantasy based on the Arthurian legend (Mary Stuart, that Mists of
>Avalon feminist stuff, the Keltiad, the Fionavar Tapestry) and I think
>I've got a fair interpretation of the myths, but I'd like some genuine
>research sources to back that up. I've got a few Arthur-related
>adventure ideas that I can basically use in any game system, but I want
>what little historical info there *is* behind me.


What I know of the historical Arthur falls under the heading "Not Much,"
but here it is:

Arthur was apparently a fifth or sixth century AD Celtic cheiftain
(possibly only a cheiftain's military commander). Arthur fought against
the Roman invasion of Britain at the time, apparently in the northern end
of the country (Scotland, I think). His sword was not named Excalibur,
Excalibur is actually a very corrupted form of the sword's original name
(which I cannot remember, it was in whatever language the Celts spake,
and was about as decipherable to me as Gaelic is-which isn't very),
coming from the original language (may have been English), then to
French, then back, becoming more corrupted all the time. Arthur _did_ die
in battle, apparently, against a foe named "Medraut," presumably this was
later corrupted into Mordred.

I believe most stories place Arthur's birthplace in Tintagel, but nobody
knows where Camelot (again, corrupted name) is supposed to have been.
Camelot was, I think, the (now corrupted) name of a Roman fort where
Arthur managed a victory against the invading forces...I may have this
confused with wherever his first victory was supposed to have been. I do
not know or cannot remember whether there was any historical basis for
Guenevere, Lancelot, Galahad, the Knights of the Round Table, etc. Most
evidence points to much of the current stories of Arthur being
invented/romanticized by writers for the French court of, I think, the
Renaissance. Our current concept of Arthur was solidified with Mallory.

If you're interested, one of Tolstoy's relatives (a nephew I think) is
writing a series of books on Arthur that are supposed to be at least
partly historical, I think (doing a lot of that during this post). Can't
remember the title, but it shouldn't be too hard to find a book written
by someone with the last name Tolstoy in the last couple of years or so.
I tried to read the book, but it was a tad thick and I couldn't get
through the names (which seemed to Gaelic or something).

Hope that helps.


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 21
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:29:48 EDT
On Mon, 26 May 1997 00:27:40 -1000 tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> writes:
>>Harlequin is Merlin?
>No. Although I can't prove it's him, I think that Merlin and Harlequin
>are talking in the beginning of VR2.0.


You mean Ambrose? What makes you say that?


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 22
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:46:46 +1000
> >> I'd much prefer for Arthur to be a separate, real person. I don't
think
> >> that it would be right for Harleqiun to be the Once and Future King.
Now,
> >> it does make sense, sort of, I just don't like the idea...what if
> >> Harlequinn were Merlin? That, I could live with...I guess...
>
> Harlequin is almost certainly *not* Merlin. :) Merlin was not an elf,
> never, not once, is it not mentioned anywhere that he was an elf, or
> even vaguely hinted at. He was human and a Druid, one of the most
> powerful druids in Britain, second only to the Lady of Avalon. And as
> for Harlequin being the once and future king, I for one will scream very
> loudly if that were to come to pass - though somehow, I doubt that will
> happen. :)

I'm not suggesting that Harlequin was Merlin, but if you remember the novel
with Aina in it (the name escapes me), Queen Elizabeth was secretly an
immortal elf, but no one ever suggested she had pointed ears. I'm guessing
that they could somehow hide that part.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 23
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 01:08:11 -1000
>>Although I can't prove it...
>You mean Ambrose? What makes you say >that?
The references to where he's from, or at least who he was friends with,
and the Christmas references relating to him. Savior Child. That stuff.
It's a possibility. I did say I can't prove it.

>Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>"Black IC!!! You bloated code! You sick little program! I will DELETE
YOU!!!!"
Message no. 24
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:31:52 EDT
On Tue, 27 May 1997 01:08:11 -1000 tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> writes:
>>>Although I can't prove it...
>>You mean Ambrose? What makes you say >that?
>The references to where he's from, or at least who he was friends with,
>and the Christmas references relating to him. Savior Child. That stuff.
>It's a possibility. I did say I can't prove it.


How do the references to the birth of Christ relate to Merlin? In fact,
many legends put Merlin as a druid, which is certainly not a
Christian...(Of course, other stories call him some sort of
half-human/half-demon, I think)

--
-Canthros-the-slightly-confused
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 25
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:17:14 -0700
---Ray & Tamara wrote:
>
> I'm not suggesting that Harlequin was Merlin, but if you remember
the novel
> with Aina in it (the name escapes me),

World's Without End

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

If in your adventures you happen across the skull of a dragon, turn
and leave that place quickly. Whatever killed the dragon may still be
around.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 26
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:16:41 -0400
>I'm not suggesting that Harlequin was Merlin, but if you remember the novel
>with Aina in it (the name escapes me), Queen Elizabeth was secretly an
>immortal elf, but no one ever suggested she had pointed ears. I'm guessing
>that they could somehow hide that part.

Yeah with a pair of scissors.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ah at last! The TRANSFORMATION is complete!
For YEARS they mocked me! They took the name EMMANUEL LEWIS in vain!
But tonight RETRIBUTION will be mine!
For I am REBORN as --WEBSTER--, The adorable scamp of DOOM!
Ma'am's and Georges beware Webster walks the earth and he's got a
HANKERIN' for some SPANKERIN'!

Man did I nail this mad doctor routine or WHAT?
"Deadpool #4"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 27
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:15:45 +1000
> >I'm not suggesting that Harlequin was Merlin, but if you remember the
novel
> >with Aina in it (the name escapes me), Queen Elizabeth was secretly an
> >immortal elf, but no one ever suggested she had pointed ears. I'm
guessing
> >that they could somehow hide that part.
>
> Yeah with a pair of scissors.

Now, now. That's just wishful thinking. 8)

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 28
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:38:48 -0400
>Now, now. That's just wishful thinking. 8)

No it's not I ran a campaign a while back and I decided to the Russians
didn't much care for meta's and with my brother playing an elf he heard that
then toldme what he was going to do to hide his race.
>
>Ray.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
>| You will not be missed |
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ah at last! The TRANSFORMATION is complete!
For YEARS they mocked me! They took the name EMMANUEL LEWIS in vain!
But tonight RETRIBUTION will be mine!
For I am REBORN as --WEBSTER--, The adorable scamp of DOOM!
Ma'am's and Georges beware Webster walks the earth and he's got a
HANKERIN' for some SPANKERIN'!

Man did I nail this mad doctor routine or WHAT?
"Deadpool #4"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 29
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:15:43 -1000
>How do references to the birth of Christ relate >to Merlin?
A comparison is made between the birth of Christ and a situation
"Ambrose" was in. I'm thinking of his raising King Arthur.
Message no. 30
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:49:40 +1000
> >Now, now. That's just wishful thinking. 8)
>
> No it's not I ran a campaign a while back and I decided to the Russians
> didn't much care for meta's and with my brother playing an elf he heard
that
> then toldme what he was going to do to hide his race.

Ewww. Did it work?

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 31
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings and the search for Excalibur
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:59:18 EDT
On Wed, 28 May 1997 11:15:43 -1000 tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET> writes:
>>How do references to the birth of Christ relate >to Merlin?
>A comparison is made between the birth of Christ and a situation
>"Ambrose" was in. I'm thinking of his raising King Arthur.


Now that you mention it, I hadn't looked at that comment in that light
before . . . It does make sense, in fact, it makes a lot of sense. It
could mean any number of things, of course, but that is what is quite
possibly meant (seeing as most similar 'savior' myths are rather obscure,
AFAIK). Hmmm . . . something to think about . . .


--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

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