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Message no. 1
From: Fastjack <uc298@*****.UNICAN.ES>
Subject: Grenade launchers and artillery skill
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:12:42 +0100
I remembered this problem when i read the post from Mike about the new TN
of grenades.

It happens in a module (dont remember which),one of my players wanted to
fire a grenade to the "bad guys",so i start to think:"they are covered +4
to TN,the boxes give them an aditional impact 2..."but my players said:

"no,no,i want to fire a "parabola shot",so i deny the penalizations and
the aditional armor of the targets.I want to use my artillery skill,in
Twilight 2000 the grenades launcher when used as i want,are fired with
the artillery skill"

After a "discussion",i didnt allow to fire as he wanted,mainly because i
dont think that you can fire a grenade in that form when you only are at
about 10-15 meters from your target and are in a room.
I allow him to fire several meters at the back of his target,so he didnt
see his TN increased and the "bad guy" roll against a low TN.

Any idea about his demand?I never played Twilight 2000,so i dont know...




*************************************************
* *
* >>>>>[Tu ciberterminal sera mia.Piensalo bien *
* cuando te encuentras en lo mas oscuro de la *
* matriz]<<<<< *
* -Fastjack<18:05:46/12-22-52> *
*************************************************
Message no. 2
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Grenade launchers and artillery skill
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:47:39 -0700
> From: Fastjack <uc298@*****.UNICAN.ES>
> After a "discussion",i didnt allow to fire as he wanted,mainly because i
> dont think that you can fire a grenade in that form when you only are at
> about 10-15 meters from your target and are in a room.

Sounds like you made all of the right decisions..If there had been
sufficent headroom his artillery approach would have been
appropriate..But in door..Forget it..Another thing I would add to the
out of door aproach..The grenade does not even hit the target until
the -end- of the combat round...-Not- that combat turn...this takes
into account the distance the grenade must travel twice and keeps it
a little more realistic...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Grenade launchers and artillery skill
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:43:28 +0100
Fastjack said on 9:12/24 Jan 97...

> "no,no,i want to fire a "parabola shot",so i deny the penalizations
and
> the aditional armor of the targets.I want to use my artillery skill,in
> Twilight 2000 the grenades launcher when used as i want,are fired with
> the artillery skill"

What he was trying to do was fire not straight at the NPCs, but up into
the air so the grenade landed between their feet, right? It's called
"indirect fire" in English, and in the T2K rulebook there are rules for
this situation (pages 206 and 206). Basically, it's very hard to hit,
nearly all your shots will scatter, and the more rounds you fire, the
higher your chance of finally getting one that hits the intended target.
The most important use is that it allows you to hit targets you can't see,
or that are out of direct-fire rang for your weapon (for example, a 155 mm
howitzer in T2K can only fire 2,800 meters directly, but with indirect
fire its maximum range is 24 km.

> After a "discussion",i didnt allow to fire as he wanted,mainly because i
> dont think that you can fire a grenade in that form when you only are at
> about 10-15 meters from your target and are in a room.

I would not allow indirect fire at these ranges, not with a grenade
launcher anyway. Throw grenades yes, but indirect fire with a grenade
launcher at 10 meters inside a building would most likely require the
character to fire through the roof...

> I allow him to fire several meters at the back of his target,so he didnt
> see his TN increased and the "bad guy" roll against a low TN.

Firing into the wall behind the NPCs is a good alternative to trying to
shoot the NPCs themselves -- and much easier than trying to fire the
grenade into the greound between their feet.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
eMpty TV
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Grenade launchers and artillery skill
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:34:38 +0000
On 24 Jan 97 at 9:12, Fastjack wrote:

> I remembered this problem when i read the post from Mike about the new TN
> of grenades.
[snip]
> "no,no,i want to fire a "parabola shot",so i deny the penalizations
and
> the aditional armor of the targets.I want to use my artillery skill,in
> Twilight 2000 the grenades launcher when used as i want,are fired with
> the artillery skill"
>
> After a "discussion",
[snip]
See FoF, p. 85 for indirect-fire arcs, and (I think) the Street Samurai
Catalogue for the rangefinder system that allows detonating grenades in
mid-air, as in "directly above their heads".


Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |Things that try to look |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ | like things often do |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de | look more like things |
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Message no. 5
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Grenade launchers and artillery skill
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:23:40 +0000
Fastjack <uc298@*****.UNICAN.ES> writes
>"no,no,i want to fire a "parabola shot",so i deny the penalizations and
>the aditional armor of the targets.I want to use my artillery skill,in
>Twilight 2000 the grenades launcher when used as i want,are fired with
>the artillery skill"
>
Ballistic range for a modern minigrenade is about 3,000 metres.

A "parabola shot" is possible from a tripod-mounted GL at 300m or more,
not at 10-15 metres indoors: the grenade will reach very roughly 6,000
feet of altitude if fired vertically and take some time to do so, then
come down again.

Also, at 10-15 metres, the grenades may not be arming: real-life weapons
arm at 13 metres or so from the muzzle, so as not to injure the firer.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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