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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Callum Shaw callum_shaw@*******.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:08:23 PDT
Would it be possible to get notified of automatic disabling of
subscriptions?

The fact that I have not received any mail from ShadowRN but am still
receiving daily posts from FanFiction would suggest that my email is
bouncing large (~80K) posts but taking small ones.

I checked my subscription yesterday and it was still enabled, but today it
was disabled and I had to re-enable it.

Can something be done about this bouncing, or is the best I can hope for
notification that my address has bounced X posts as is being disabled?


Thanks in advance.


Callum


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Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:16:47 +1000
Callum Shaw writes:
> Would it be possible to get notified of automatic disabling of
> subscriptions?
>
> The fact that I have not received any mail from ShadowRN but am still
> receiving daily posts from FanFiction would suggest that my email is
> bouncing large (~80K) posts but taking small ones.
>
> I checked my subscription yesterday and it was still enabled, but today it
> was disabled and I had to re-enable it.
>
> Can something be done about this bouncing, or is the best I can hope for
> notification that my address has bounced X posts as is being disabled?

Now what would be the point of being notified?

Follow the logic here:
1) Email is sent to your account. For some reason, it bounces.
2) When enough email is bounced, you get disabled.

Now you want step 3) Email me when I get disabled.

That would lead to step 4) Email notification bounces.

There's a prize for the first person who fails to spot the flaw in this.

Robert.
Message no. 3
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:32:01 -0500
On Tue, 11 May 1999 13:16:47 +1000 "Robert Watkins"
<robert.watkins@******.com> writes:
<SNIP>
>Now what would be the point of being notified?
>
>Follow the logic here:
>1) Email is sent to your account. For some reason, it bounces.
>2) When enough email is bounced, you get disabled.
>
>Now you want step 3) Email me when I get disabled.
>
>That would lead to step 4) Email notification bounces.
>
>There's a prize for the first person who fails to spot the flaw in this.

Except: he said the cause (he thinks) of the bouncing is the size of the
mail. The notification would be small and therefore make it through. :P~

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Hello, my name is Stephen. This is Dick. He'll see if he has something
your size." -- Jug Ears

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Message no. 4
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 23:03:21 -0600
At 20:08 5/10/99 -0700, Callum Shaw wrote:
>Would it be possible to get notified of automatic disabling of
>subscriptions?

*digs in his outbox from last week. <pause> Sounds of cutting and pasting
are heard*

Mailman is really oversensitive, and the current bounce detection is due to
be re-implemented after the first full GNU release. Hopefully things will
get a little more stable at that point. Also, I plan to write a bounce
notification feature once the new detection scheme is finished, which will
let subscribers know they've been bounced. This obviously won't help the
people who were bounced for a real reason - like having no account anymore,
but it should let people know if they've been set to nomail for a minor
bounce. (With the traffic ShadowRN has, a mail server being down for less
than an hour can cause you to be set nomail).

..

The fact that you use Hotmail doesn't help - no offense, I understand it's
the best solution in some situations (Computer roving, primarily), but it's
a rare week that it doesn't go down for some hours, bouncing 5-15 members
of the list. ShadowRN itself has a limit of 40K for a posting, so this has
nothing to do with excessively large posts.

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
<"[T]he last thing I want to do is spread fear, uncertainty and >
< doubt in [the users'] minds." - Don Jones, MS Y2K Product Manager >
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:04:12 +1000
D. Ghost writes:
>
> Except: he said the cause (he thinks) of the bouncing is the size of the
> mail. The notification would be small and therefore make it through. :P~

So you think that everyone but him shouldn't be notified?

Wouldn't the logical course of action be for him to get the problem that is
causing his email to bounce fixed?

And that doesn't explain the problem, as the bulk of SHADOWRN messages are
less than 8OK (unless he only gets the digest version, of course, which
means that he can solve the problem by getting the normal version)

To sum up: there is little point in most cases of sending an automated
notification message to a person who has had their list settings set to
NOMAIL due to e-mail bounce. 99% of the time, you can be certain that the
notification will bounce right back, too.

(OTH... there MAY be justification in doing it, say, 24 hours afterwards, so
that people who had their email go down for a few hours are notified. But
this could involve a lot of work modifying the list software (keeping track
of who is set to disabled, running a batch process every 24 hours to notify
new disabled members, verifying that they haven't fixed it themselves, etc,
etc)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 6
From: Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:58:17 -0400
Robert Watkins wrote:
>
> D. Ghost writes:
> >
> > Except: he said the cause (he thinks) of the bouncing is the size of the
> > mail. The notification would be small and therefore make it through. :P~
>
> So you think that everyone but him shouldn't be notified?
>
> Wouldn't the logical course of action be for him to get the problem that is
> causing his email to bounce fixed?
>
> And that doesn't explain the problem, as the bulk of SHADOWRN messages are
> less than 8OK (unless he only gets the digest version, of course, which
> means that he can solve the problem by getting the normal version)

Maybe he meant that his ISP only allows him a small amount of email
storage space. I.E. they allow him 50k on their server and anything
more he recieves they bounce. This would make sense (except for the
ISP only allowing such a small allotment). For example this morning I
downloaded 74 emails, at roughly 2kb a piece that is 148kb.

--
Iridios
"God does not roll dice"
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 7
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:43:48 +0100 (BST)
And verily, didst Robert Watkins hastily scribble thusly...
|Now what would be the point of being notified?
|
|Follow the logic here:
|1) Email is sent to your account. For some reason, it bounces.
|2) When enough email is bounced, you get disabled.
|
|Now you want step 3) Email me when I get disabled.
|
|That would lead to step 4) Email notification bounces.

There is, however a small... complication...

Just because an e-mail sends an error message does not automatically mean
it doesn't get through....

I know. I had a badly configured filter and was receiving e-mails, but being
told by the people who sent them that they were getting bounces...

So sending a notification that *may* bounce may also still get through.

|There's a prize for the first person who fails to spot the flaw in this.

That depends. Sending one extra message to a bouncy address isn't going to
cause massive bandwidth problems, but it might get through to inform the
victim.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 8
From: GMPax@***.com GMPax@***.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:11:58 EDT
In a message dated 5/10/99 11:17:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
robert.watkins@******.com writes:

<< Follow the logic here:
1) Email is sent to your account. For some reason, it bounces.
2) When enough email is bounced, you get disabled.

Now you want step 3) Email me when I get disabled.

That would lead to step 4) Email notification bounces.

There's a prize for the first person who fails to spot the flaw in this.

Robert. >>

Well, how _many_ emails being bounced does it take, to have delivery turned
off? One, three, ten, fifty? Seems like ONE will do it now. God forbid a
server somewhere on the net should hiccough for a minute. :-\

It has also been suggested that a notice be sent 12 HOURS after the delivery
is turned off. That way, if it is a TEMPORARY problem, it will have
(hopefully) been fixed.

Sean
GM Pax
Message no. 9
From: The Phantom phantom023@*******.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:47:22 GMT
>From: "Robert Watkins" <robert.watkins@******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.org
>To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
>Subject: Re: Grid Sec Request
>Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:16:47 +1000
>
>Callum Shaw writes:
> > Would it be possible to get notified of automatic disabling of
> > subscriptions?
> >
> > The fact that I have not received any mail from ShadowRN but am still
> > receiving daily posts from FanFiction would suggest that my email is
> > bouncing large (~80K) posts but taking small ones.
> >
> > I checked my subscription yesterday and it was still enabled, but today
>it
> > was disabled and I had to re-enable it.
> >
> > Can something be done about this bouncing, or is the best I can hope for
> > notification that my address has bounced X posts as is being disabled?
>
>Now what would be the point of being notified?
>
>Follow the logic here:
>1) Email is sent to your account. For some reason, it bounces.
>2) When enough email is bounced, you get disabled.
>
>Now you want step 3) Email me when I get disabled.
>
>That would lead to step 4) Email notification bounces.
>
>There's a prize for the first person who fails to spot the flaw in this.
>
>Robert.
Oo-oo!!! Is it because... ummm.. I guess not.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Phantom~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"A decker with a shotgun beats four aces anyday."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Message no. 10
From: Graht Graht@**********.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:01:17 -0500
Callum wrote:
/Would it be possible to get notified of automatic disabling of
/subscriptions?

As Adam pointed out, it's not feasible with the current listserv software.

______________________________________________________
/Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

And that's another part of the problem.

Hotmail bounces a lot of posts.

I would suggest setting yourself up on several free email accounts (Eudora,
Geocities, Netscape, Yahoo, Lycos, etc) and subscribing to ShadowRN for each of
them. Just read the list from one of them and mass delete you mail on the
others. See which ones are still subscribed after a week or two and pick one
(I doubt if Hotmail will be a survivor ;)

-Graht
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/
Geek Code: GCS d-( ) s++:->+ a@ C++>$ US P L >++ E? W++>+++ !N o-- K-
w+ o? M- VMS? PS+(++) PE+(++) Y+ !PGP t+(++) 5+(++) X++(+++) R+>$ tv+b++ DI++++
D+(++) G e+>+++ h--->---- r+++ y+++
http://home.att.net/~Graht
Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
> I would suggest setting yourself up on several free email accounts
(Eudora, Geocities, Netscape, Yahoo, Lycos, etc) and subscribing to
ShadowRN for each of them. Just read the list from one of them and
mass delete you mail on the others. See which ones are still
subscribed after a week or two and pick one (I doubt if Hotmail will be
a survivor ;)
> -Graht

I've experienced this kind of thing myself (among other problems).
Yahoo works quite well IMO.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 12
From: Smed smed51@*****.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 05:15:26 -0700 (PDT)
I've experienced this kind of thing myself (among
other problems).
Yahoo works quite well IMO.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)



I have to agree. I have a Hotmail account and a Yahoo
account and the Hotmail is nowhere near as reliable.
Give Yahoo a shot.

Smed
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Message no. 13
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Grid Sec Request
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:31:30 -0500
On Tue, 11 May 1999 15:04:12 +1000 "Robert Watkins"
<robert.watkins@******.com> writes:
>D. Ghost writes:
>> Except: he said the cause (he thinks) of the bouncing is the size of
the
>> mail. The notification would be small and therefore make it through.
:P~

>So you think that everyone but him shouldn't be notified?

<SNIP>

What I was suggesting was that a notification would help some people.

--
D. Ghost

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Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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