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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:03:17 -0700
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
|
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
| >>>>> "TC" == Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.csupomona.edu>
writes:
|
| TC> Really!? And what pray tell is the difference, since there is a link
| TC> to both planes in both cases?
|
| Because there is no active magical link between the astral body and
| physical body. All that connects them is the "silver thread". This is
| unlike astral perception in which the two bodies "overlap" each other in
| their respective planes. Sympathy without symmetry is insufficient to
| bridge the two planes to the degree required to ground through the physical
| presence.

Okay, I have been trying to keep up with this debate, but I
I missed something. What provides the symmetry for a
sustained, quickened, and anchored spell that allows you to
ground through them?

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:30:45 +0000
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
|
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
| >>>>> "TC" == Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.csupomona.edu>
writes:
|
| TC> Really!? And what pray tell is the difference, since there is a link
| TC> to both planes in both cases?
|
| Because there is no active magical link between the astral body and
| physical body. All that connects them is the "silver thread". This is
| unlike astral perception in which the two bodies "overlap" each other in
| their respective planes. Sympathy without symmetry is insufficient to
| bridge the two planes to the degree required to ground through the physical
| presence.
I wouldn't be so hasty to lay down the law on this - that "silver thread"
is definitely a link between aura and body, and it is enough to allow the
spell to ground out into the target's body (when you powerbolt an astrally
projecting mage, his body will starting blistering, his nose and ears
might bleed etc).

If the silver thread is enough to allow grounding into the target's body
why not others (though I do maintain that these others must be in LOS as
normal)? IMHO the spell doesn't ground out through the thread anyway - the
_effects_ do. Once the spell has 'anchored' itself by grounding its
effects through the target aura, it carries on in astral space to the
other -now valid- targets in the area of effect.

I argue that the spell having ground out through the aura and into teh
physical form, now has the necessary sympathetic information to allow it
to 'cross the Divide' into the the other passive auras.

I.e for a spell to cross the Divide from astral to physical it must match
the 'distance' between the two planes (which changes massively with the
tides of mana, and minutely second to second) exactly. To callibrate the
spell for the distance the caster uses the information gained from copying
the target's sympathetic nature by synchronising auras. For other non
target spells eg Barriers and Damaging Manipulations, the caster uses his
own sympathetic nature.

When astral the magician cannot synchronise auras, or use his own
sympathetic nature because he doesn't have the bodily end of his equation.
Therefore to gain the distance info he needs to measure it using a dual
being/item.



The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:15:46 -0500
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>>>>> "DB" == David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.org> writes:

DB> Okay, I have been trying to keep up with this debate, but I
DB> I missed something. What provides the symmetry for a
DB> sustained, quickened, and anchored spell that allows you to
DB> ground through them?

You cannot ground through an anchored spell because it is not active.

And for about the 10 billionth time, the link to astral space required for
power to maintain the other two forms of continuous spells.

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Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:34:30 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "TDM" == The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk> writes:

TDM> I wouldn't be so hasty to lay down the law on this - that "silver
TDM> thread" is definitely a link between aura and body, and it is enough
TDM> to allow the spell to ground out into the target's body (when you
TDM> powerbolt an astrally projecting mage, his body will starting
TDM> blistering, his nose and ears might bleed etc).

This is not grounding. The damage is caused by the sympathy between the
astral and physical bodies -- what you do to one body is reflected in the
other. This is something different from grounding, the dumping of magical
energy through an aura into the physical body.

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Message no. 5
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:01:19 +0000
>
> You cannot ground through an anchored spell because it is not active.
>
> And for about the 10 billionth time, the link to astral space required for
> power to maintain the other two forms of continuous spells.

Could you explain please.. how an anchored spell can be unactive? I
mean its doing whatever its suppose to do.. so... that makes it
active as far as I understand.

Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:02:07 EST
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:01:19 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>>
>> You cannot ground through an anchored spell because it is not
>active.
>>
>> And for about the 10 billionth time, the link to astral space
>required for
>> power to maintain the other two forms of continuous spells.
>
>Could you explain please.. how an anchored spell can be unactive? I
>mean its doing whatever its suppose to do.. so... that makes it
>active as far as I understand.
>
It's astrally active, but only to a point. It doesn't have a complete
circuit to the physical realm like a focus does, that is, it is astrally
active, it just isn't dual-natured. So, attacking an anchored spell in
astral space would simply set the spell off. With sustained spells,
nothing happens, the spell dissipates without doing anything, it simply
can't do what it does that quickly. Instantaneous duration spells do
their thing and have to be re-cast even without being attacked on the
astral...when a combat spell or DM is attacked and defeated this way,
however, they go off at ground zero, toasting whichever unfortunate
happens to be holding the object at the time. (pg 50, Grimoire 2)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:52:41 EST
On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:03:17 -0700 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>
>Okay, I have been trying to keep up with this debate, but I
>I missed something. What provides the symmetry for a
>sustained, quickened, and anchored spell that allows you to
>ground through them?
>

Apparently the fact that there is an conduit providing power from astral
space (ASTRAL PART), and a physical effect (PHYSICAL PART) interacting
with an aura* is enough (for Rat, at least) to ground through.

*it is also asserted that ALL spells require an aura to be targeted at.

~Tim
Message no. 8
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:35:59 EST
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:01:19 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>>
>> You cannot ground through an anchored spell because it is not active.
>>
>> And for about the 10 billionth time, the link to astral space required
for
>> power to maintain the other two forms of continuous spells.
>
>Could you explain please.. how an anchored spell can be unactive? I
>mean its doing whatever its suppose to do.. so... that makes it
>active as far as I understand.
>
>Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
>

Actually, depending on what sort of links you attach to it at the time of
creation, it could very well be "dormant" until it is activated. For
example the "Activation" & "Deactivation" links, which give you
on/off
switches for the spell, or the "Delayed Activation" link (I think this is
one..) which - surprise, surprise - delays the activation of the spell
for a set time-limit.

It is a fairly jump to decide that if the spell isn't actually doing
anything, then it is not "Active" and thus is no target (not that it
would be anyway..)

~Tim
Message no. 9
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 14:48:14 +1000
> Actually, depending on what sort of links you attach to it at the time of
> creation, it could very well be "dormant" until it is activated. For
> example the "Activation" & "Deactivation" links, which give
you on/off
> switches for the spell, or the "Delayed Activation" link (I think this is
> one..) which - surprise, surprise - delays the activation of the spell
> for a set time-limit.
>
> It is a fairly jump to decide that if the spell isn't actually doing
> anything, then it is not "Active" and thus is no target (not that it
> would be anyway..)

I would have assumed that it's at least partially active, so that it knows
when to fully activate. That's why anchored spells count as half force for
breaking etc, when they are currently inactive.

Ray
Message no. 10
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:03:34 +0000
On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> >>>>> "TDM" == The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
writes:
>
> TDM> I wouldn't be so hasty to lay down the law on this - that "silver
> TDM> thread" is definitely a link between aura and body, and it is enough
> TDM> to allow the spell to ground out into the target's body (when you
> TDM> powerbolt an astrally projecting mage, his body will starting
> TDM> blistering, his nose and ears might bleed etc).
>
> This is not grounding. The damage is caused by the sympathy between the
> astral and physical bodies -- what you do to one body is reflected in the
> other. This is something different from grounding, the dumping of magical
> energy through an aura into the physical body.
May I ask, just so I can then in turn clarify my point, how you see this
as different from grounding? IMHO grounding is using the Sympathy
information from one target to allow the spell to effect other, non
astrally asctive, auras.


The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 11
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells -Reply
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:10:46 -0500
>>> Stainless Steel Rat
<ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET> 03/05/97 06:15pm
>>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "DB" == David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.org>
writes:

DB> Okay, I have been trying to keep up with this
debate, but I
DB> I missed something. What provides the
symmetry for a
DB> sustained, quickened, and anchored spell that
allows you to
DB> ground through them?

You cannot ground through an anchored spell
because it is not active.

And for about the 10 billionth time, the link to astral
space required for power to maintain the other two
forms of continuous spells.
\
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I don't have my books on me at the moment to give
you an exact page quote but I believe if you look at
the entire Anchoring section near the end of it it
describes how you CAN ground through an anchored
spell regardless of it's status. I know it's on the last
page of the anchoring section just before it moves
onto the next section.
Think about it, even if you have it on a "delay" link
or "thought" activated link it has to be monitoring to
see when the conditions are met. Just like a modem
is inactive until a call comes in. It's still on even
thought it isn't sending or recieving. If the modem
isn't on then nothing that comes in over the phone
wire is going to wake it up. And yes, I know there are
some devices that claim to be able to turn them
selves on after so many rings but I think you'll find
that they all have to be plugged in and turned on
before they will automatically reset themselves (some
Answering machines will do that for example).

Hmmm.... I keep letting myself get sucked into this
debate time and time again....Help someone throw me
a lifeline....
Message no. 12
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells -Reply
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:01:43 -0700
Jeffrey Riordan wrote:
|
| Hmmm.... I keep letting myself get sucked into this
| debate time and time again....Help someone throw me
| a lifeline....

Here <toss> catch!

BTW, are you one of those people at the FCC that's going to
have those of us posting from the USofA thrown in jail if
we say "Fuck"? ;)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 13
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:47:47 -0500
Talk to the Justice Department and Congress I
certainly didn't vote for it!
:)

>>> David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> 03/06/97
10:01am >>>
Jeffrey Riordan wrote:
|
| Hmmm.... I keep letting myself get sucked into this
| debate time and time again....Help someone throw
me
| a lifeline....

Here <toss> catch!

BTW, are you one of those people at the FCC that's
going to have those of us posting from the USofA
thrown in jail if we say "Fuck"? ;)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and
breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling
Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 14
From: Toaster <Toaster@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:50:54 -0800
> May I ask, just so I can then in turn clarify my point, how you see this
> as different from grounding? IMHO grounding is using the Sympathy
> information from one target to allow the spell to effect other, non
> astrally asctive, auras.
> grounding involves the existence of an astral channel of power. active foci
constantly
suck energy out of the astral and feed it to the physical component.
i dont think there is any silver thread connecting a projecting magician's astral body
to his physical. area effect spells will not ground out through his body and blow
neighboring things to kingdom come.
Message no. 15
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:59:08 +0000
In message <331F747E.43B4@************.com>, Toaster <Toaster@****
GRAPHICS.COM> writes
>i dont think there is any silver thread connecting a projecting magician's
>astral body
>to his physical. area effect spells will not ground out through his body and
>blow
>neighboring things to kingdom come.

This is not what the rules say, sadly.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 16
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells -Reply
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:01:13 EST
On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:10:46 -0500 Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.GOV>
writes:
<snip>
> I don't have my books on me at the moment to give
>you an exact page quote but I believe if you look at
>the entire Anchoring section near the end of it it
>describes how you CAN ground through an anchored
>spell regardless of it's status. I know it's on the last
>page of the anchoring section just before it moves
>onto the next section.

pg 50, Grimoire 2nd edition. "Anchorings and Astral Space"

Any spell that has been anchored is vulnerable from astral space, but
only to disruption or dispelling. Disruption causes split-second
activation of the spell (but it's not sustained). You cannot ground
through it, but you can engage it in astral combat.



> Think about it, even if you have it on a "delay" link
>or "thought" activated link it has to be monitoring to
>see when the conditions are met. Just like a modem
>is inactive until a call comes in. It's still on even
>thought it isn't sending or recieving. If the modem
>isn't on then nothing that comes in over the phone
>wire is going to wake it up. And yes, I know there are
>some devices that claim to be able to turn them
>selves on after so many rings but I think you'll find
>that they all have to be plugged in and turned on
>before they will automatically reset themselves (some
>Answering machines will do that for example).

Sort of, an anchored spell that's inactive uses only half of its Force
Rating to defend against astral attack, an active anchored spell uses its
full Force.




>
> Hmmm.... I keep letting myself get sucked into this
>debate time and time again....Help someone throw me
>a lifeline....
>

Hmmm...people around here have a tendency to throw carp, not lifelines:)


I'd give you a hand out, but I seem to 'drowning' myself;)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 17
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:13:18 -0600
On page 37 of the Corp. Sec. book they mention grounding through spells.
First of all, I'd like a little disclaimer. It is a comment written in
by a decker. I know this isn't an official ruling, but....

>>>>>(Speaking of tech advances... Their security magicians quicken
light spells to places inside the protected area. Magical light doesn't
give off heat, so it won't "blind" thermographics the way mundane bright
light does. Also, the security magician is instantly alerted if one of
the quicken light spells goes down. (This also relates to another thread
that ran around for awhile doesn't it?) The disadvantage is, an intrduer
can ground through the spells. That's why the corps tend to leave
magical lighting to the sorcerer adepts.)<<<<<
-Lady Sally
In my games you can, I know it's a personal preference, but... this line
tends to support it.
:)
-Court


/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was thinking, that it might do some good
If we robbed the cynics and took all their food
That way what they believe will have taken place
And we can give it to people who have some faith
-Jewel
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 18
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:19:30 EST
On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 23:13:18 -0600 Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
writes:
>On page 37 of the Corp. Sec. book they mention grounding through
>spells.
>First of all, I'd like a little disclaimer. It is a comment written
>in
>by a decker. I know this isn't an official ruling, but....

Far from it, in fact.



<snip Quickened light spells>
>The disadvantage is, an intrduer
>can ground through the spells. That's why the corps tend to leave
>magical lighting to the sorcerer adepts.)<<<<<
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


> -Lady Sally
>In my games you can, I know it's a personal preference, but... this
>line
>tends to support it.
>:)

As has been stated, Shadowtalk isn't too reliable and this decker doesn't
seem to know exactly what she's talking about, anyway: Sorcerors can't
Quicken spells.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 19
From: Toaster <Toaster@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:43:49 -0800
> This is not what the rules say, sadly.
> Which part?
and where is it?
Message no. 20
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:49:59 +0000
On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Court Schuett wrote:

> On page 37 of the Corp. Sec. book they mention grounding through spells.
<snip>
> In my games you can, I know it's a personal preference, but... this line
> tends to support it.

But then this is the same Corp Sec book which allowed Watchers to
physically manifest and push big red buttons :)

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 21
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:19:37 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "LC" == L Canthros <lobo1@****.com> writes:

LC> As has been stated, Shadowtalk isn't too reliable and this decker
LC> doesn't seem to know exactly what she's talking about, anyway:
LC> Sorcerors can't Quicken spells.

Exqueeze me? Since when has an initiate Sorcery Adept been unable to
quicken spells?

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
Message no. 22
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 19:02:39 +0000
|
|-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
|>>>>> "LC" == L Canthros <lobo1@****.com> writes:
|
|LC> As has been stated, Shadowtalk isn't too reliable and this decker
|LC> doesn't seem to know exactly what she's talking about, anyway:
|LC> Sorcerors can't Quicken spells.
|
|Exqueeze me? Since when has an initiate Sorcery Adept been unable to
|quicken spells?

Since they were banned from Astral Perception???
i.e. Since they were invented in the good old days of SHI???
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 23
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:35:17 +0000
On 11 Mar 97 at 12:19, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> LC> As has been stated, Shadowtalk isn't too reliable and this decker
> LC> doesn't seem to know exactly what she's talking about, anyway:
> LC> Sorcerors can't Quicken spells.
> Exqueeze me? Since when has an initiate Sorcery Adept been unable to
> quicken spells?
*squeezes Rat* No, wait, that was wrong... erm. Sorry.
Grimoire, p. 44: "In addition, the magician must use astral perception
to 'keep the spell in sight' thw whole time he is sustaining it."

Before anyone asks: SRII, p. 124: "The principle [...] between a
magical adept and a full magician is that the adept has no access to
astral space. A magical adept cannot use astral perception or
projecting at all."


Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |'The rich control |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| The Government, |
| \___ __/ | | The Media, |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | And the Law!' |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - Queensryche |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 24
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:20:47 -0600
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Sascha Pabst wrote:

> *squeezes Rat* No, wait, that was wrong... erm. Sorry.
> Grimoire, p. 44: "In addition, the magician must use astral perception
> to 'keep the spell in sight' thw whole time he is sustaining it."
>
> Before anyone asks: SRII, p. 124: "The principle [...] between a
> magical adept and a full magician is that the adept has no access to
> astral space. A magical adept cannot use astral perception or
> projecting at all."
>
Okay, but what if, say the Sorcery Adept, was also a Shapeshifter? Would
they then be allowed to quicken spells? Or does the ability have to come
from the A in Magic?

-Court


/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
it's not important
this stuff that i'm afraid of
i've got a bugle someplace
let's get a parade up.
we're near the water
i know a guy, a guy with a boat
it doesn't have any motor
we could just sit
sit and float
-Too Much Joy
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 25
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:22:24 EST
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 12:19:37 -0500 Stainless Steel Rat
<ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET> writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>>>>>> "LC" == L Canthros <lobo1@****.com> writes:
>
>LC> As has been stated, Shadowtalk isn't too reliable and this decker
>LC> doesn't seem to know exactly what she's talking about, anyway:
>LC> Sorcerors can't Quicken spells.
>
>Exqueeze me? Since when has an initiate Sorcery Adept been unable to
>quicken spells?
>
Since it requires Astral Perception. The same reason a Physical Magician
w/o Astral Perception only has access to Centering and Masking: All other
forms of Metamagic require Astral Perception.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 26
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:00:56 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "SP" == Sascha Pabst
<Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
>>>>> writes:

SP> Grimoire, p. 44: "In addition, the magician must use astral perception
SP> to 'keep the spell in sight' thw whole time he is sustaining it."

Thank you. A Sorcery Adept, of course, cannot do this.

Oops.

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 27
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:38:55 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "CS" == Court Schuett <schuett@*****.ivcc.edu>
writes:

CS> Okay, but what if, say the Sorcery Adept, was also a Shapeshifter?

Shapeshifters are not human. Using the normal PC guidelines (which are for
humans) for critters is probably a risky proposition, especially for
magically active critters.

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ of skin.
\
Message no. 28
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:35:05 -0500
Stainless Steel Rat wrote,
>>>>> "SP" == Sascha Pabst
<Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
>>>>> writes:
>
>SP> Grimoire, p. 44: "In addition, the magician must use astral perception
>SP> to 'keep the spell in sight' thw whole time he is sustaining it."
>
>Thank you. A Sorcery Adept, of course, cannot do this.
>
>Oops.

Even while sustaing any/all Astral Sense/Analyze Magic/Detect Magic
spells if it detected the spell in question? I think it would be more
difficult for the adept but I would let him do it none the less.
And this is coming from the person who doesn't let non-spelltossing
adepts have force points from CharGen.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 29
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:51:18 EST
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:20:47 -0600 Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
writes:
>On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
>> *squeezes Rat* No, wait, that was wrong... erm. Sorry.
>> Grimoire, p. 44: "In addition, the magician must use astral
>perception
>> to 'keep the spell in sight' thw whole time he is sustaining it."
>>
>> Before anyone asks: SRII, p. 124: "The principle [...] between a
>> magical adept and a full magician is that the adept has no access to
>> astral space. A magical adept cannot use astral perception or
>> projecting at all."
>>
>Okay, but what if, say the Sorcery Adept, was also a Shapeshifter?
>Would
>they then be allowed to quicken spells? Or does the ability have to
>come
>from the A in Magic?
>
>-Court
Yes, they could do all the neat spell-casting stuff, then. The
requirement is astral perception, not Priority A Magic.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 30
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:44:47 +0000
| Even while sustaing any/all Astral Sense/Analyze Magic/Detect Magic
|spells if it detected the spell in question? I think it would be more
|difficult for the adept but I would let him do it none the less.

The rules on quickening are quite specific. They say you MUST assense and
keep the spell in sight (using astral perception) for the full duration.

No mention of spells.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 31
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:48:40 -0500
Spike wrote,
>The rules on quickening are quite specific. They say you MUST assense and
>keep the spell in sight (using astral perception) for the full duration.
>
>No mention of spells.

And no mention that the caster _has_ to be a full magician, hence
the debate. My opinion stands.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 32
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@******.GWEEP.NET>
Subject: Re: Grounding through Spells
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 18:23:52 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "M" == MC23 <mc23@****.net> writes:

M> And no mention that the caster _has_ to be a full magician, hence
M> the debate. My opinion stands.

To quicken a spell requires astral perception. A Sorcery Adept explicitly
does *not* have this ability. Therefore a Sorcery Adept cannot quicken
spells.

QED.

Some other adepts capable of casting spells do have the astral perception
ability. Those may be capable of quickening spells.

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--
Rat <ratinox@******.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.

Further Reading

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