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Message no. 1
From: 92804168@***.UWPLATT.EDU
Subject: Gun Cameras
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 09:50:00 CST
Someone asked if it would be possible to have a micro camera mounted onto a
gun, connected to a smartgun link, thereby allowing the person to fire the
gun around corners, behind his back, etc. My ideas are:

The camera would probably cost as much as a cybereye camera, with no
significant weight (maybe .25 or so).

The smartgun link would have to modified for more sophisticated wiring, so
double the cost and add .05 to the essence cost, making it .3 instead of .25

The character would have to have at least one eye modified to be able to be
switched between normal sight and the camera view. Not sure what price or
essence cost would be on that one.

Firing the weapon while using the camera view would be at a penalty to hit,
probably +2 or so, due to the one-dimensional view the camera would give you.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Hope this helps.


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Message no. 2
From: Todd Montgomery <tmont@****.WVU.WVNET.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 21:21:01 CET
There was a mention of something like this in the last book of the
first Trilogy of Shadowrun books. Never Deal with a Dragon, Find Your
Own Truth, ... The ones with Sam Verner. I think it was the last book
in the beginning around page 10.

FLASHBACK with Music.......

Sam and some muscle were in Australia...
They were searching for some strange magical duhicky.
And well the street sam, some Indian dude who was nothing like Ghost,
gets mad at Sam and pulls a gun on him while he, the sam, is looking
somewhere else. They make mention that the sam was as deadly with his
cybernetic enhancements without even being able to see his target with
his meat eyes. I took this to mean that he could sight his target much
like a camera with his smartlink.

Back to present reality.....

Well that is how I remember it. It has been at least since the book
was released. And I don't have a copy of the book with me. I usually
don't take the books seriously for rules, though. But this might spark
some more briliant insights.

-- Quiktek

Henry: "OK Gladis, ... How many times have you shot a Panther Assault
Cannon?"
Gladis: " NONE. "
Henry: "Then let an expert shoot the Cyborg from the Sewer."

Excert from: Henry's Dinner, Episode 23, Spetember 2051.

Cast:
Gladis -- Troll Kitchen Helper
Henry -- Skrawny Elf Cook

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Montgomery Concurrent Engineering Research Center
CERCnet Administrator Drawer 2000
E-mail: tmont@****.wvu.wvnet.edu P.O. Box 6506
Telephone: (304) 293-7226 West Virginia University
ext. 166 or 225 Morgantown, WV 26506
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: MHILLIARD@******.BITNET
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 21:44:00 EDT
The smartgun does not automatically contain an imaging system (although some
do). Mine uses a tunable laser sight mounted on the weapon as part of the
smartgun modification. Linked to the headware via the induction pad on my palm,
it measures range and bearing, etc, of the target, and automatically triggers
my brain to fire the weapon, all in a picosecond (or some other ridiculously
small amount of time). An imaging system would work the same way, I imaging,
and would not provide any advantages. A gun-camera, on the other hand, is a
device which takes a photo of what the gun is pointed at when the trigger is
pulled. Back around the turn of the century, it was required for legally
purchased handguns to have a gun-camera, for evidence purposes (proving a self-
defense plea, etc.). Of coure, nowadays, that's bunk.

Raven
Message no. 4
From: David Loewenstern <loewenst@*********.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 93 22:35:28 GMT
... On Thu, 14 Jan 93 21:44:00 EDT, MHILLIARD@******.bitnet said:
[...]
} Linked to the headware via the induction pad on my palm,
} it measures range and bearing, etc, of the target, and automatically triggers
} my brain to fire the weapon, ...

Uh huh. You're joking, I hope.

Quincunx
Message no. 5
From: MHILLIARD@******.BITNET
Subject: Re: RE: Gun cameras
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 12:26:00 EDT
} uh huh. You're joking, I hope.

Why would I be joking? Upon rereading my posting I see it suggests that
there is no concious decision to fire the weapon as part of the process. I
apologize for my lack of clarity. The concious decision to point a weapon at
someone and blow them to kingdom come is what sets the descibed process in
motion. If your objection is to some other part of the process, please clarify.
Raven
Message no. 6
From: David Loewenstern <loewenst@*********.RUTGERS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 13:16:50 GMT
>>>>>[
Why do I think you should be joking?

1. Why bother with a trigger? If the gun can tell _you_ when to fire,
why not just have it fire itself?
1a. If the gun, not the gunner, determines when to pull the trigger,
then what does firearms skill do?
1b. Fire blind. Walk into a room full of opponents _with your eyes
closed_ and tell the gun to shoot everyone. After all, it doesn't
need you to aim. And those guys with flashpacks thought they were so
smart...
1c. Even if you bought the idea that you would trust a gun to fire
itself, why on earth would it trigger your brain to fire itself? Does
an autopilot work by triggering your brain to turn the wheel?
2. What level of AI would a gun need to determine which of the 2000
things in the room is the target?
3. What the heck do you do if the gun targets the wrong person?
3a. Great line for the gun-control folks: "The gun automatically
triggers his brain to fire the weapon. Who is really in charge?" 8^)

]<<<<< Quincunx <loewenst@****.rutgers.edu> (Fri Jan 15 13:16:23 EST
1993)
Message no. 7
From: Neil Smith <NSMITH@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Gun cameras
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 10:43:02 GMT
A question that might be answered in the LS book:
Is it standard issue for cops to have cameras on their guns, so that
Internal Affairs can see exactly what people were shooting at? I
would imagine the cameras would be very small, secure to alteration,
and would also allow posthumous ID of criminals

Neil.
Message no. 8
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:03:35 BST
> Is it standard issue for cops to have cameras on their guns, so that
> Internal Affairs can see exactly what people were shooting at? I
> would imagine the cameras would be very small, secure to alteration,
> and would also allow posthumous ID of criminals


It is, answer in the LS book, They put them on SWAT long-riles, and the LR's
didn't like it, they got really pararnoid when they knew that some pen-pusher
was going to go over every move they made, and possibly destroy their
career because they didn't make the textbook move at the right time, so
funnily enough the SWAT boys set up in places where 'freak RF fields cut off
the camera fields' or something like that.

Real world: anything that adds weight to your pistol slows up your draw/aim
time and can get you killed, post-humous criminal ID, check his teeth, and if
that doesn't work, assign him a SIN for his short trip down to the morgue.

I read over on Rec.Guns that NYPD officers don;t use laser sights, because the
user is to busy looking for the little dot on their target, to just point the
thing and shoot, wierd huh?


MY PC's love gun camera's, when they have space on their guns, they're dumb
enough to have home movies of the Universal Brotherhood run.

MST#K :- 'Oh, and hear comes Bod.'
'Oh, and hear comes the insect queen, do you think Bod's seen her?'
'Watch out Bod, she's behind you!'
'Don't woryy Bod, I willsave you head from the jaws of the ravenous
beastie by hosing down the corridor with my fully automatic weapon
until the clip is empty'.

Etc, Ad Nauseum.


Runs-With-The-Pack
Who's broken free of player domination and wants to rule the world!
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:33:04 +0200
>Is it standard issue for cops to have cameras on their guns, so that
>Internal Affairs can see exactly what people were shooting at? I
>would imagine the cameras would be very small, secure to alteration,
>and would also allow posthumous ID of criminals

Not that I know of. I don't think the LS book says anything about gun
cameras being issued at all to anyone.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...the insects are huge and the poison's all been used...
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 10
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:45:03 +1000
Gurth writes:

> Not that I know of. I don't think the LS book says anything about gun
> cameras being issued at all to anyone.

They do on the SWAT snipers, someone else posted this just recently. If I
remember rightly, the snipers themselves hate it, and choose places with EM
interference to set up shop, so that the images do not get sent through to
the recorder.

--
Damion Milliken Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

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Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gun cameras
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:35:21 +0200
>They do on the SWAT snipers, someone else posted this just recently. If I
>remember rightly, the snipers themselves hate it, and choose places with EM
>interference to set up shop, so that the images do not get sent through to
>the recorder.

Yep. Forgot about that one. The other members of SWAT teams don't get
cameras, and neither does anyone else. They already have to cope with thsoe
lifesign monitors of which many officers think they're Big Brother beacons,
so I think they'd protest quite a lot if cameras would become standard issue...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
he's not trying to catch your eye; he's just trying to get a life
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P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)

Further Reading

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Thwap!