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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Tzeentch)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Mon Jul 23 20:20:01 2001
I've got some notes for this but I'm unsure of what you are looking for. The
only hard part is converting the magic system. Do you want to directly
convert the SR system over to GURPS terms or apply GURPS magic rules to SR
(using Archmagery an so on).


Kenneth Peters
Backup Lead Playtester for GURPS Transhuman Space: High Frontier
"...enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
- Army Officer's Guide ca 1874
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damian Sharp)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Tue Jul 24 00:40:01 2001
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Tzeentch wrote:

> I've got some notes for this but I'm unsure of what you are looking for. The
> only hard part is converting the magic system. Do you want to directly
> convert the SR system over to GURPS terms or apply GURPS magic rules to SR
> (using Archmagery an so on).

I worked on something like this for a while, and we worked spells to be
kinda like 'Supers' style powers. They got the varied disad, for
'Costs Drain', at different percents, depending on the amount, and
difficulty. This did make being a mage a bunch of points, but skills are
notably cheaper too. We tried it out for a while, and mages were still
definately effective, in comparison to cybered types. The point scale was
greatly increased, where we figured a standard Shadowrunner at 500 points,
and that scale seemed to get someone roughly equal a starting runner, SR
style. Point rewards for each session were increased, to about 10, which
let people notably increase themselves, but not in large, drastic ways.

There was a bunch of changes, if anyone's really interested, and called
shots to the eyes were quite deadly. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Graduate |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ridiculous Lucky Captain Rabbit King,
Lucky Captain Rabbit King Nuggets are for the youth."
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Tzeentch)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Tue Jul 24 01:05:02 2001
-------------------------------------
I worked on something like this for a while, and we worked spells to be
kinda like 'Supers' style powers. They got the varied disad, for
'Costs Drain', at different percents, depending on the amount, and
difficulty. This did make being a mage a bunch of points, but skills are
notably cheaper too. We tried it out for a while, and mages were still
definately effective, in comparison to cybered types. The point scale was
greatly increased, where we figured a standard Shadowrunner at 500 points,
and that scale seemed to get someone roughly equal a starting runner, SR
style. Point rewards for each session were increased, to about 10, which
let people notably increase themselves, but not in large, drastic ways.

There was a bunch of changes, if anyone's really interested, and called
shots to the eyes were quite deadly. :)
-------------------------------------

500 point characters? Damn, you been playing too much Black Ops?

The standard Fatigue system seems to work, especially if you have fatigue
subtract from HT at low amounts (1 fatigue). Use the Archmagery rules and
you might be set.

No limit to the levels of Magery.

Lesse. Drop the Critical Spell Failure Table. Crit failure means subtract
double normal fatigue cost directly from HT, do not pass go do not collect
$200.

Spells with fatigue costs above your Magery level subtract from HT instead.

SR is normal mana. Higher mana areas are possible but you still required the
Magery advantage (also requires Unusual Background: Awakened).

Recover Strength spell is not normally available.

You may burn HT as normal.

You may buy Extra Fatigue (Magery Only) per Myth.

Colleges dont matter.

Wands and staves dont add to touch distance. They don't exist anyways.

Powerstones not available. Foci require special rules.

No magic items other then foci. That is, the entire Enchantment College does
not exist. No teleportation spells.

Also see GURPS Technomancer for spells that make mages asskickers in a tech
setting. Put the fear of the Sixth World into the players with shaped charge
fireballs and particle beams ;)

Kenneth Peters
Backup Lead Playtester for GURPS Transhuman Space: High Frontier
"...enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
- Army Officer's Guide ca 1874
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damian Sharp)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Tue Jul 24 01:30:01 2001
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Tzeentch wrote:

> -------------------------------------
> I worked on something like this for a while, and we worked spells to be
> kinda like 'Supers' style powers. They got the varied disad, for
> 'Costs Drain', at different percents, depending on the amount, and
> difficulty. This did make being a mage a bunch of points, but skills are
> notably cheaper too. We tried it out for a while, and mages were still
> definately effective, in comparison to cybered types. The point scale was
> greatly increased, where we figured a standard Shadowrunner at 500 points,
> and that scale seemed to get someone roughly equal a starting runner, SR
> style. Point rewards for each session were increased, to about 10, which
> let people notably increase themselves, but not in large, drastic ways.
>
> There was a bunch of changes, if anyone's really interested, and called
> shots to the eyes were quite deadly. :)
> -------------------------------------
>
> 500 point characters? Damn, you been playing too much Black Ops?

Well, given that we also added to Stats, the costs kinda got high. We set
the point cost of everythng, then converted a couple characaters, and they
were all around 500 points, so that's what we went with.

> The standard Fatigue system seems to work, especially if you have fatigue
> subtract from HT at low amounts (1 fatigue). Use the Archmagery rules and
> you might be set.

We did have Drain do Fatigue, most of the time. I've never seen the
Archmagery rules, though.

We redid the magic system, for 2 main reasons.

1) The Gurps magic system is well done and all, but not really
Shadowrun-y. Spell pyramids, while logical in a magical system, are
notably absent from the Shadowrun style of magics. The methods of casting
spells without fatigue (i.e. Really high scores in them) as opposed to
Shadowrun's varied fatigue for stuff, etc all seemed different enough to
have a new system.

2) I play 90% of the Shadowrun mages here, and I don't like using the
Gurps magic system. :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Graduate |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ridiculous Lucky Captain Rabbit King,
Lucky Captain Rabbit King Nuggets are for the youth."
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Brian Sniffen)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Tue Jul 24 19:10:01 2001
I've had a great deal of success using the GURPS Psionics rules with
some suggested adaptations by Steve Kenson. They were published in
Pyramid, so if you want it in his words directly, you'll have to cough
up $15.

GURPS Psi rules have "Powers" and "Skills" -- Powers (Skills) are:
Telepathy (Receive Thoughts, Send Thoughts, Control Actions, Emotion
Control, more)
Psychokinesis (Pyro-k, Tele-k, Cryo-k, Levitation, more)
Healing (Sense Aura, Heal, Life Extension)
ESP (Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, Combat Sense, more)
Electrokinesis (Photokinesis, Break Equipment, Confuse Neural Activity
Astral (Perception, Projection)
Teleportation (nixed this one)

I nixed Teleportation as not appropriate for the universe, threw out a
bunch of Electrokinesis, and added a Spirit power with skills in
Summoning, Banishing, Control, and Watcher Manipulation.

GURPS Psi charges points per level of Power, and then you buy skills
like any other skill. It has the concept of "enhancements" and
"limitations" -- like Edges and Flaws for Edges and Flaws.

So you might take Telepathy at Power 10 for 50 points, then add a
level of Increased Range for 10% and take a side effect Requires
Preparation for -20%. 10-20=-10, so you get a 10% discount and pay 45
points.

The idea that makes this all *feel* like SR magic is this:
add a 75% limitation (making Mages /much/ cheaper) which gives a -15
penalty to all skill use. This penalty can be offset by any of:

Concentration: 1 for the first second, 2 for the next, 4 for the next...

Preparation Rituals: 1 for the first hour, 2 for the next....

Ritual: 1 for gestures, 1 for words, more for particularly cool ritual

Symbolism: 4 for the presence of the target, lesser amounts for symbolic
presence (e.g. voodoo dolls, hair clippings)

Location: 0 for unconsecrated middle-of-nowhere combat-casting. More
for Circles, Lodges, and whatnot.

This is a broad enough sweep that a skilled GM and rules hacker can
put together something workable and probably even similar to the
original; if you don't feel up to that, I suggest looking at the
article linked to off of http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid. Search on
Kenson's name.

-Brian
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (C J Tipton)
Subject: GURPS Shadowrun
Date: Tue Jul 31 16:40:01 2001
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:15:58 -0700 "Tzeentch" <tzeentch666@*********.net>
writes:
> I've got some notes for this but I'm unsure of what you are looking
> for. The
> only hard part is converting the magic system.

Umm...yes,well. It seems I converted the entire Shadowrun magic system to
a usable GURPS format yesterday morning. Not that difficult, you just
have to begin by recognizing that the GURPS magic rules,
and the psionic rules, won't work at all well for a Shadowrun mage. As a
result, I simply affected a direct conversion of the magic system, which
I subsequently tested and revised exactly twice.

When I asked about GURPS conversion materials, it was a general request
for information. There were a dozen ways I looked at to do a conversion,
and mostly It just boiled down to finding what I wanted the system to do.
I have most everything converted. What I'm really interested in is
something to contrast/compare against. I think (as do my players) that my
conversion works well, but I'd like to see if I'm missing anything.

Thanks for the help so far.

Cowboy(tips his hat)
CJ
Arkades@****.com
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