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Message no. 1
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:16:05 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>

>row. You could also place it on stand-by for the next 50 years, then
>call it up and ask it to perform a service for you, after which you
have 4
>services left.
>=================================================


Gurth, is your mailer doing weird things? When I reply to messages
from you, I get no '>' marks to show your message, and manually have
to add >>>>> <<<<< marks. Apparently so does Katt here.

Or am I imagining things?

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 2
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:33:36 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of NightRain
Sent: April 27, 1998 5:16 AM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Gurth's weird mailer


Gurth, is your mailer doing weird things? When I reply to messages
from you, I get no '>' marks to show your message, and manually have
to add >>>>> <<<<< marks. Apparently so does Katt here.

Or am I imagining things?
================
Nope, not in my case. I have setup my mailer so it does not add those
anoying brackets in front of quoted lines. Which is why I always use
============= to separate the part I am quoting from the reply, as I did in
this post.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:00:15 +0100
And verily, did Katt Freyson hastily scribble thusly...
|Or am I imagining things?
|================
| Nope, not in my case. I have setup my mailer so it does not add those
|anoying brackets in front of quoted lines. Which is why I always use
|============= to separate the part I am quoting from the reply, as I did in
|this post.

Sorry to say this, but the '>' or '|' or whatever symbols DO make things
more readable....

It also makes things easier on us when you have things like....

> Quoted text...

Response

> Quoted text...

More response....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:47:10 +0100
NightRain said on 19:16/27 Apr 98...

> Gurth, is your mailer doing weird things? When I reply to messages
> from you, I get no '>' marks to show your message, and manually have
> to add >>>>> <<<<< marks.

I'm using the same mailer I've been using since 14 december 1997 12:43:57
(at least, that's the date on the zip), and I haven't made any changes to
its settings since forever. If you're having some kind of trouble with my
posts that you didn't have before, my guess is that it's on your side, not
mine. Of course, with you using Outlook Express, anything could be
possible *grin*

> Apparently so does Katt here.

All of Katt's messages are quoted in that weird way, whether they're
replies to posts I made or posts by someone else.

> Or am I imagining things?

You must be imagining things :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:44:09 EDT
In a message dated 4/27/98 6:28:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU writes:

> Gurth, is your mailer doing weird things? When I reply to messages
> from you, I get no '>' marks to show your message, and manually have
> to add >>>>> <<<<< marks. Apparently so does Katt
here.
>
> Or am I imagining things?
>
> NightRain.
>
I seem to get the >>> when I quote to Gurth's...but then my ability to set
them is limited to only two choices...makes it easier that way I guess.

-K
Message no. 6
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:50:20 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of Spike
Sent: April 27, 1998 1:00 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer

Sorry to say this, but the '>' or '|' or whatever symbols DO make things
more readable....
==============My Response=============

Does this help? I dislike the use of those brackets and other symbols. I
find it much nicer to simply separate the quoted text from the response. One
of the major problems with the other way, is text line wrapping badly and
peopple who don't know how to post. So you end up with a really shitty
formatted text, and you have a problem knowing what is quoted and what is
not. EG:

===========Example start===============
>This is a test, this is a test this is a test
test this is.....
>More quoted text, more quoted text.

===========Example end=================

See? Now lets say that I added a response between the two lines [there are
only two lines but wrapping makes the appear to be three.

============Example start =================
>This is a test, this is a test this is a test
test this is.....
This is a response, repeat this is a response
>More quoted text, more quoted text.
===========Example end==============

See what I mean? It requires more indepth reading than it should to
differantiate between the quote and the response. Many posts are that bad.

=============Example start=================
>Quote,quote quote quote quote quote
>Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote
Quote Quote quote quote quote quote quote quote
>quotequotequotequotequotequotequotequotequotequote
>quotequotequotequotequotequotequotequotequotequote
>Response start. oh I am replying to what was written above,
but because I am lazy or just not thinking about it I did not make sure to
place a blank line between the quote and the response, so people are not
sure where the response is.
===================Example end==============

Whereas with my system, there is no doubt where the reply start, especially
since I will make it more obvious.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:04:18 -0600
Katt Freyson wrote:
/
/ -----Original Message-----
/ From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
/ Behalf Of Spike
/ Sent: April 27, 1998 1:00 PM
/ To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
/ Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
/
/ Sorry to say this, but the '>' or '|' or whatever symbols DO make things
/ more readable....
/ ==============My Response=============
/
/ Does this help? I dislike the use of those brackets and
other symbols. I / find it much nicer to simply separate the quoted
text from the response. One / of the major problems with the other
way, is text line wrapping badly and / peopple who don't know how to
post. So you end up with a really shitty / formatted text, and you
have a problem knowing what is quoted and what is / not.

You mean like when people use tabs to indent their emails? ;)

-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:17:23 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
Behalf Of David Buehrer
Sent: April 27, 1998 10:04 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer


You mean like when people use tabs to indent their emails? ;)

==============My Response ===========

I am sorry, I forgot that some people are still using antique eMail
readers and therefore should not use tabs. Consider it changed. Of course,
if someone had been decent and smart enought to have pointed it out to me
earlier, but no, it's saved for when one has nothing better to sling.

Katt
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:25 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 23:17/27 Apr 98...

> I am sorry, I forgot that some people are still using antique eMail
> readers

Just a little remark about this: it's all very well and fine you're using
Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0, but the things is that using
fancy features in email WILL cause incompatibility because those features
go beyond the standard protocols, so that mailers that do comply to those
protocols won't know what to make of them. Plain text is still the best
way to communicate via email.

That is the reason stuff gets messed up: because some people insist on
using mailers that want to do things _their_ way rather than the standard
way (and MS leads the pack in this field, IMHO). Point in fact: those
&$^*!#% binary RTF attachments MS mailers used to send a few years ago,
and sometimes still do.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:19:16 -0400
Katt Freyson wrote:
>Sorry to say this, but the '>' or '|' or whatever symbols DO make things
>more readable....
>==============My Response=============
[snip]
> See? Now lets say that I added a response between the two lines
>[there are
>only two lines but wrapping makes the appear to be three.

Well, I just checked and this isn't in the FAQ, but most people
are careful to limit their posts to <80 chars (I'm stuck using
Exchange with this account, so I set my font to fixed with and
make sure the window's small enough to not be 80+ chars).

It's pretty common netiquette.
>
>============Example start =================
>>This is a test, this is a test this is a test
>test this is.....
>This is a response, repeat this is a response
>>More quoted text, more quoted text.
>===========Example end==============
>
> See what I mean? It requires more indepth reading than it should to
>differantiate between the quote and the response. Many posts are that bad.

So leave a blank line or two in there - whitespace is even more
important than comments in programming...
>
> Whereas with my system, there is no doubt where the reply start,
>especially
>since I will make it more obvious.

Can you tell that this is my response? Anything with a > in front of
it, I didn't write - that leaves no doubt to me...

Basically, you're violating the standards of the internet because
you think that you have a better way that eliminates some problems.
OK, I can't fault you for thinking that. On the other hand, I
could make several arguments as to how I disagree and that would
just degenerate from there. So I won't.

The 'net prefers >-style quoting for a reason. I can't stop you
from posting using your method, but I suggest that you rethink your
reasons for doing so...

James Ojaste
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:57:50 -0600
Katt Freyson wrote:
/
/ -----Original Message-----
/ From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
/ Behalf Of David Buehrer
/ Sent: April 27, 1998 10:04 PM
/ To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
/ Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
/
/
/ You mean like when people use tabs to indent their emails? ;)
/
/ ==============My Response ===========
/
/ I am sorry, I forgot that some people are still using antique eMail
/ readers and therefore should not use tabs. Consider it changed. Of course,
/ if someone had been decent and smart enought to have pointed it out to me
/ earlier, but no, it's saved for when one has nothing better to sling.

I thought I had already bugged you about it. Must've been someone
else. I'm sorry if I came off as insulting. That was not my
intention.

And as for using an "antique" mailer :) I have no choice. Well,
that's not true. I suppose I could actually spend money and get a
private account with AOL or someone, but when I get net access for
free it goes against my grain to actualy pay money for it <shrug>.

-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 12
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:51 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: David Buehrer
Sent: April 28, 1998 10:58 AM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer

[David]
I thought I had already bugged you about it. Must've been someone
else. I'm sorry if I came off as insulting. That was not my
intention.

[My response]
No problem David, just tired of people picking on silly little things in
order to counter a point I am making.

[David]
And as for using an "antique" mailer :) I have no choice. Well,
that's not true. I suppose I could actually spend money and get a
private account with AOL or someone, but when I get net access for
free it goes against my grain to actualy pay money for it <shrug>.

email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

[My Response]
David, if you have a Geocities account, that allows you a POP3 eMail
account which you can use any eMail program to read. Just thought I'd
mention it.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
Message no. 13
From: scrose <scrose@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:27:31 -0500
Gurth wrote:
>
> Katt Freyson said on 23:17/27 Apr 98...
>
> > I am sorry, I forgot that some people are still using antique eMail
> > readers
>
> Just a little remark about this: it's all very well and fine you're using
> Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0, but the things is that using
> fancy features in email WILL cause incompatibility because those features
> go beyond the standard protocols, so that mailers that do comply to those
> protocols won't know what to make of them. Plain text is still the best
> way to communicate via email.

I recall many times where something new comes out and causes problems...
Fact is that plain text is universal. It has been that way for years and
years and is not going to change.
The new stuff might look nice but not everyone even people in the same
country are all going to use the apps.
I personally don't like MS outlook and won't use it. Pegasus and Eudora
very nice mail clients even if I use the one that comes with netscape
most of the time. :)

> That is the reason stuff gets messed up: because some people insist on
> using mailers that want to do things _their_ way rather than the standard
> way (and MS leads the pack in this field, IMHO). Point in fact: those
> &$^*!#% binary RTF attachments MS mailers used to send a few years ago,
> and sometimes still do.

The big thing on a list like this is that we have people from all over
the world using a wide range of hardware and software platforms. I hate
to say this but it is nothing short of rude to use things Rich Text
formating when one is on an international mailing list...
Message no. 14
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:53:05 -0600
Thus spake Katt Freyson:
>
> [David]
> And as for using an "antique" mailer :) I have no choice. Well,
> that's not true. I suppose I could actually spend money and get a
> private account with AOL or someone, but when I get net access for
> free it goes against my grain to actualy pay money for it <shrug>.
>
> [My Response]
> David, if you have a Geocities account, that allows you a POP3 eMail
> account which you can use any eMail program to read. Just thought I'd
> mention it.

I thought I should inject my 2 cents on this before this thread gets
axed. I use elm. That's right, elm. It's not far from as antique a
mailer as you can find, But, one advantage (among many, IMO) I enjoy by
using it is that I can read my email from any computer on (or off) the
planet that can connect to the Internet. Any computer: Un*x, PC or Mac
(or what have you), if it can conect to the world network I can read
and send email from it. I'll take this functionality over the ability
to hilight (and such) any day.

Give the ol' Netiquette RFC a good read and join the list.

http://sunsite.auc.dk/RFC/rfc/rfc1855.html

--
Mike Loseke | Unix: Best used by its freshness
mike@*******.com | date of January 19, 2038
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:11:40 +0100
Katt Freyson said on 12:22/28 Apr 98...

> [My response]
> No problem David, just tired of people picking on silly little things in
> order to counter a point I am making.

<punch below the belt>
Now you know how I feel...
</punch below the belt>

:)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Neighbors, let us join today in the holy love of God and money
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gurth's weird mailer
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:32:34 +0100
And verily, did Mike Loseke hastily scribble thusly...
| I thought I should inject my 2 cents on this before this thread gets
|axed. I use elm. That's right, elm.

Theers nowt wrong wit' elm...
It's a good little program. Well behaved, plenty of facilities.
The only time I use anything else is when I want to send something as a
non-uuencoded attachment....

It's not far from as antique a
|mailer as you can find, But, one advantage (among many, IMO) I enjoy by
|using it is that I can read my email from any computer on (or off) the
|planet that can connect to the Internet.

Yup. Well.... Almost....
I challenge you to write a version of elm for the Sinclair QL.....
:)

*HINT* It needs TCP/IP first....

|Any computer: Un*x, PC or Mac
|(or what have you), if it can conect to the world network I can read
|and send email from it. I'll take this functionality over the ability
|to hilight (and such) any day.

True...

| Give the ol' Netiquette RFC a good read and join the list.

Excellent idea...
I only wish more people would....
Even I might browse it.... Possibly.... Well, maybe... ish....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

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