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Message no. 1
From: VAEL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Hacking
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:49:12 +0000
The following has a slight vein of SR, and is of a subject matter
that I'm sure many have opinions and I just wanted to hear your side.

I sat down last night to browes the movie 'Hackers' and it
got me thinking. (Big surprise!)

For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
but I'm trying to make a point.)

To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
and altering present information inside the mark system.

Do then ends justify the means?

For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
just to get a visa card that you need?

And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

Vael


"One of the most terrible moments in a boy's life, is when he discovers
his father and mother are human beings who share a love that he
can never quite taste. It's a loss, an awakening to the fact that
the world is there and here and we are in it alone.
The moment carries it's own truth; you can't evade it."
- Duke Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:54:58 +0100
|Do then ends justify the means?

Sometimes, yes....

|For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
|system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
|the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

Borrow? Implying you'll give it back some day???
LOL

|Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft?

Can be. Some systems today have howling security holes in them....
Unix for example.
Also, it's quite possibly to create a virus tagged to a peice of software
that auto-mails you the password of the poor idiot using the infected
stuff.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:30:36 -0800
>The following has a slight vein of SR, and is of a subject matter
>that I'm sure many have opinions and I just wanted to hear your side.
>
>I sat down last night to browes the movie 'Hackers' and it
>got me thinking. (Big surprise!)

"Hackers" and think in the same sentence... Whoa. :) It's about
as hard as this "Paranoid Android" song on the radio...

>For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
>programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
>but I'm trying to make a point.)

Right. (I'm not a hacker, I just know some stuff, very little,
so brush me off if you feel the need.)

>To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
>and altering present information inside the mark system.

Pretty much.

>Do then ends justify the means?

It all depends on the person...

>For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
>system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
>the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

It's probably easier than shooting the place up and running off
with the server. :]

>Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
>brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
>and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
>just to get a visa card that you need?

There are probably easier ways of getting 'money' than that, but
getting a Visa card doesn't exactly get me off. <g>

>And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
>hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
>to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

I basically think that most "hackers" get off on breaking the system
that they have no access to. Doing an inside job just wouldn't
take as much skill, and wouldn't be as risky. The harder the
challenge, the bigger the thrill, I would think. I happen to
get off and racing people on the streets and getting away with
it, I'm sure hackers get off just as much by breaking a system,
and getting away with it.

Hackers do it because they love it, not because it's trendy or
cool, you know. Shadowrun hackers must get an extreme rush
after whooping a piece of Black ICE or cracking a big system.

-Skye
Message no. 4
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:23:43 -0500
> And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
> hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
> to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?
In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
extent.

losthalo
Message no. 5
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:49:29 -0600
At 01:23 7/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
>theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
>Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
>extent.

I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything. I
realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on peoples
desks.

-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Adam J said on 23:49/12 Jul 97...

> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
> supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
> is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything.

The "paperless office" was a prediction from the (early?) '80s, but it's
turned out that if you give people access to an easy means of
typing and editing text (a word processor) and a printer, they'll make
print-outs of everything...

> I realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
> computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on
> peoples desks.

Me too... The way I see it, people like to be able to take hold of
something they're reading, not having to push buttons or move a mouse.
Plus of course you can read those print-outs on the train home without
having to boot up a notebook, if you can afford one that is.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:03:54 -0700
> >For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
> >programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
> >but I'm trying to make a point.)

Not necessarily always intricate. 'Denial of service' attacks systems
that freeze out users after their password incorrectly x number fo
times; all you need is that particular phone number and a wardialer. Of
course, it's also chaotic, and not good in the long-term interest...

> >To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
> >and altering present information inside the mark system.

Or, use existing programs on the inside to access/edit data, or just
browse without altering. ("Real" hackers, whoever they are, get upset
when you say hackers alter stuff, since that's cracking, not hacking.)

> >For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
> >system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
> >the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

It's not like people just sit around eighteen hours a day doing 'normal'
stuff (eating, sleeping, jogging the dog) and then suddenly turn into
Matrix berserkers. You have to live and breathe this stuff. I see most
of a decker's time being taken up browsing through sleazy BBSes,
attending EFF meetings (g), that sort of thing. It's why there's a
Matrix Etiquette, y'know - completely different from Street Etiquette.

> >Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
> >brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
> >and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
> >just to get a visa card that you need?

...Which is, in itself, a hack on the system. But rather than
manipulate the computers directly, you manipulate the people operating
the computers.

> >And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
> >hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
> >to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

Isn't it easier to get a job at Fujitsu and retire from the biz? :)
Message no. 8
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:58:35 -1000
>You can't steal cash...
I think this is a bit on the wrong side. Cash is used in some places
still. It's not all credsticks.
Message no. 9
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:14:34 +0500
On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:

> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
> office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
> My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
> magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
> be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
> still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.

Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
pounds and pounds of hardcopy.

--

==DREKHEAD=======================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department

Message no. 10
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:24 +0100
> From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
>
> On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:
>
> > I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
> > office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
> > My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
> > magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
> > be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
> > still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
>
> Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
> pounds and pounds of hardcopy.
>
start message reply
start task "ramble"

Well, I think that it's easier to sit around phreaking somebody like Eddie
Bauer or some other catalog store and wait for the perople who kindly give
out their credit card numbers and expiration dates. Problem then is
hsipping, but if you try hard enough, somebody will ship to you without
asking questions. Not that I have the capability to do this, but hacking is
all in how you frame the goal. Is it to steal? or is it because you can.
Usually the latter.

end task "ramble"
end message reply

kim
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:58:31 -0600
Drekhead wrote:
|
| On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:
|
| > I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
| > office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
| > My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
| > magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
| > be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
| > still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
|
| Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
| pounds and pounds of hardcopy.

An then along comes Human Resources which increases the ammount of
paper by a factor of x10.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 12
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:42:54 -0500
#> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
#> office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
#> My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
#> magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
#> be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
#> still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
#
#Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
#pounds and pounds of hardcopy.
Sure, I use print outs all the time, but I also like to read online stuff,
it's easier to search for words than a hard bound RPG rule book :), I
imagine my kids would prefer to read online more than I, and their kids
will be the managers in the 2050s
;)


--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 13
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:45:10 -0500
At 07:03 AM 7/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
#> >To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
#> >and altering present information inside the mark system.
#
#Or, use existing programs on the inside to access/edit data, or just
#browse without altering. ("Real" hackers, whoever they are, get upset
#when you say hackers alter stuff, since that's cracking, not hacking.)
or knowing how to exploit existing services, for the real geeks on the
list, uch as sendmail, phf cgi scripts, etc.

#> >For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
#> >system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
#> >the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?
#
#It's not like people just sit around eighteen hours a day doing 'normal'
#stuff (eating, sleeping, jogging the dog) and then suddenly turn into
#Matrix berserkers. You have to live and breathe this stuff. I see most
#of a decker's time being taken up browsing through sleazy BBSes,
#attending EFF meetings (g), that sort of thing. It's why there's a
#Matrix Etiquette, y'know - completely different from Street Etiquette.
I spend very little time "hacking" but I know a few tricks to gain
SuperUser ccess on a lot of *NIX machines.

#> >And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
#> >hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
#> >to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?
#
#Isn't it easier to get a job at Fujitsu and retire from the biz? :)
one problem here, you also have a reputation to keep good.
If you did get the job @ Fujitsu and then stole info from them, odds are
hey're going to find out, unless you hack the system, using the knowledge
gained hacking the system.

anyone else see the catch-22 here?

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 14
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:00:44 -0700
Adam J wrote:
> >In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
> >theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
> >Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
> >extent.
>
> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
> supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
> is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything. I
> realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
> computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on peoples
> desks.

I have to agree with Adam on this one, I for one would always have paper
around, not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the feel
of a good book, or the ability to just lounge around and read on the
couch. Sure all of these things would be achieved with hand held
systems, but it's just not the same.

~Caric sans .sig
Message no. 15
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:13:46 -0500
At 02:00 PM 7/14/97 -0700, you wrote:

#I have to agree with Adam on this one, I for one would always have paper
#around, not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the feel
#of a good book, or the ability to just lounge around and read on the
#couch. Sure all of these things would be achieved with hand held
#systems, but it's just not the same.
#
what about the star trek-like handheld mini "tablets" they use for textual
purposes?
I could consider those to be much more useful than a book, especially if
they're waterproof.


--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:21:36 +0100
|what about the star trek-like handheld mini "tablets" they use for textual
|purposes?
|I could consider those to be much more useful than a book, especially if
|they're waterproof.

Usefull, maybe. But even Picard likes to pick up a real book to flick
through once in a while...

(I'll use the episode "Cause and Effect" as an example...)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 17
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:10:53 -0500
You wrote:
> Usefull, maybe. But even Picard likes to pick up a real book to flick
> through once in a while...

Picard is also an intellectual... the average person? Would they care if
books disappeared? I truly doubt it. Especially if they could still get
trashy romance novels and such on chip, for the same price. :)

losthalo
Message no. 18
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:33:03 +0100
In article <33CA937C.1F15@********.com>, Caric <caric@********.COM>
rambled on endlessly about Hacking
>Adam J wrote:
>> >In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
>> >theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
>> >Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
>> >extent.
>>
>> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
>> supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
>> is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything. I
>> realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
>> computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on peoples
>> desks.
>
>I have to agree with Adam on this one, I for one would always have paper
>around, not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the feel
>of a good book, or the ability to just lounge around and read on the
>couch. Sure all of these things would be achieved with hand held
>systems, but it's just not the same.


Agree with both Adam and Caric here. Print in Shadowrun is not nearly
dead, although books as such are possibly primarily the domain of the
well off. Newsprint is too useful to people to be totally phased out.
People still want to know the news, and if they can't afford a trid
account, or own a computer then it is unlikely that any profit oriented
organisation is going to ignore the need for print. Aside from which,
following the print is dead theme, how do the homeless and bums keep
warm on cold nights without card and newsprint. A less commonly known
fact is that newspapers are excellent insulation and will keep a person
warm on the coldest of nights. Aside from which what the heck would the
Brits wrap their fish and chips in? <g>


I still follow with a view that is present even in Anime, print is not
dead. Some people may access news-zines from a terminal, but may
request a print out of that data/news so that they can read it over
their morning coffee or whatever. Those who believe in total electronic
production are not only missing out on a great deal of relaxation, and
are possibly heading for myopic, but are also likely to be totally
oriented to electronic media, something beyond a large portion of the
populace.


Nope, sorry, can't accept that print is nearly or totally dead. it has
too may uses. Same as cash really, credsticks may be cool for some, but
what do the sinless or poverty stricken do. Welfare is likely to
continue in Shadowrun, for the simple expedient of making sure the
populace have something in their pockets rather than nothing and
plotting rebellion. I use money in my game in much the same way as
newsprint, it's a handy way of keeping the lower classes, in their
place. Not everybody is going to be able to use a credstick, or even
have access to one. Also, having a newspaper, gives the players
something to hide behind when they see a police officer they recognise.
<s>


One example of the paperless office is Microsoft. Mr Gates has a view
of the paperless office, and their offices are amazingly clear of the
stuff, incoming mail is allegedly sorted, scanned and mailed to the
staff, books (ie helpfiles etc) are electronically produced for rapid
access, but I reckon, in those briefcases and coats, there's not only
paper, but newspapers, letters, driving licence, insurance documents and
all manner of other printed materlal, which means even Microsoft have
failed to meet the designs of the paperless office. I would be more
than happy to have all my technical books on electronic media, it makes
it quicker to search for keywords etc, and also a damn sight lighter to
carry around. However, computers don't work everywhere, and even in
Shadowrun battery life is limited, there is too much in this world that
still relies heavily on paper, and that is likely to continue even into
Shadowrun. Paper books, news, magazines money, etc has been around for
a _very_ long time, and mankind is not that quick to change. And like
Caric says, there's nothing like curling up with a damn good book. And
let's face it, can you really imagine the future stock exchange hurling
little computer chips to the floor? It's so much more fun to throw
little pieces of paper. :) Kids... how do you substitute for a good
paper based spitball?


(My views although my own will, of course, upset somebody, somewhere.)
<g>


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 19
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:18:55 -0500
At 01:10 AM 7/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
#You wrote:
#> Usefull, maybe. But even Picard likes to pick up a real book to flick
#> through once in a while...
#
#Picard is also an intellectual... the average person? Would they care if
#books disappeared? I truly doubt it. Especially if they could still get
#trashy romance novels and such on chip, for the same price. :)
imagine all the books you could fit onto a single "tablet"

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 20
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:33:39 +0200
At 02:33 AM 15-07-97 +0100, you wrote:
>. Same as cash really, credsticks may be cool for some, but
>what do the sinless or poverty stricken do. Welfare is likely to
>continue in Shadowrun, for the simple expedient of making sure the
>populace have something in their pockets rather than nothing and
>plotting rebellion. I use money in my game in much the same way as
>newsprint, it's a handy way of keeping the lower classes, in their
>place. Not everybody is going to be able to use a credstick, or even
>have access to one. Also, having a newspaper, gives the players
>something to hide behind when they see a police officer they recognise.


>>>>>>>Someone who supports a mixed cash/electronic currency system!
I feel
that electronic money alone is vastly impractical. As was mentioned above
what about the poor and homeless? Are they going to be given credsticks?
No. They would sell them to stick sharks for almost nothing.
Having some cash around is also great for illegal deals and illicit
activities. Of course higher class establishment wont accept cash due to
risk/counterfeiting/image/exclusivity but thats why we have credsticks,
no?<<<<<<<<

Thats me Thanks

Bruce

PS What in the 6th world are "underworld markers" ? or just plain
"markers"
for that matter (i refer to a scenario in Sprawl Sites)
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:49:42 +0100
Bruce H. Nagel said on 1:10/15 Jul 97...

> Picard is also an intellectual... the average person? Would they care if
> books disappeared? I truly doubt it. Especially if they could still get
> trashy romance novels and such on chip, for the same price. :)

They'd be more expensive, because of the "new technology" involved. For
instance, CDs cost more than vinyl records for no real reason, and I
imagine books vs. chips would be the same.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Further Reading

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Thwap!