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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:26:56 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 04:09 PM 7/9/98 -0500, D.Ghost wrote:
>Ok I just called up my local store (Phoenix Comics & Games), and this
was
>what they had to say:
>
>1) that they get 1 HB per 24 ordered (ie the 25th is the HB)

I seriously hope that this is not how FASA is going to handle the
hardbacks. My local store does not have the customer base to deal in
that sort of volume, and I am one of at least two rabid SR players who
would not settle for a flimsy paperback.

The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for that
edition.

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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:27:50 +0100
Paul Gettle said on 17:26/9 Jul 98,...

> The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
> number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for that
> edition.

That's exactly what happened with the first and second editions.
SRII hardback is 7900 while the softback is 7901, and the
hardback cost US$5 more, IIRC. I bought my SRII hardback in
early 1993 at a con, from a stand that only sold hardbacks when
it came to SRII (or so they told me at the time).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"That's IT, lunchbox!!! We'll go to Shermer, Illinois!"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:00:28 -0400
At 05:26 PM 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:

>>1) that they get 1 HB per 24 ordered (ie the 25th is the HB)
>
>I seriously hope that this is not how FASA is going to handle the
>hardbacks. My local store does not have the customer base to deal in
>that sort of volume, and I am one of at least two rabid SR players who
>would not settle for a flimsy paperback.

As I understand it, that's rather common practice actually. Hardbacks cost
more to produce, which get's passed along to the consumer. A LOT of SR
folks will be more than happy to pay ten bucks LESS for the same book in
softback.

I'd push to know a bit more about the gaming stores distributor. It is
entirely possible, if the use a distributor, that this company will order
say, 100 copies of SR3. That means four hardbacks. Your gaming shop
should be able to put in a request or something to get those four hardbacks
shipped to them instead of being spread out amongst the various stores the
distributor services. Can't hurt to ask anyway.

Either that or find someone going to GenCon and convince them to pick up a
copy for you for $30.

Erik J.

URL to go here soon...
Message no. 4
From: peterottwell <peterottwell@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:06:14 -0700
> At 04:09 PM 7/9/98 -0500, D.Ghost wrote:
> >Ok I just called up my local store (Phoenix Comics & Games), and this
> was
> >what they had to say:
> >
> >1) that they get 1 HB per 24 ordered (ie the 25th is the HB)
>
> I seriously hope that this is not how FASA is going to handle the
> hardbacks. My local store does not have the customer base to deal in
> that sort of volume, and I am one of at least two rabid SR players who
> would not settle for a flimsy paperback.
>
> The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
> number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for that
> edition.


Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
I know the bookstores around here dont even have shadow run books, kinda
stinks.
Message no. 5
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:40:48 -0500
At 10:00 AM 7/10/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote:
# I'd push to know a bit more about the gaming stores distributor. It is
# entirely possible, if the use a distributor, that this company will order
# say, 100 copies of SR3. That means four hardbacks. Your gaming shop
# should be able to put in a request or something to get those four hardbacks
# shipped to them instead of being spread out amongst the various stores the
# distributor services. Can't hurt to ask anyway.
actually, a store like Borders that carrys game products might get a whole
slew of them also.

but I know that I am low low man on the totem pole at the local borders and
gaming store, but I really want the hard back version, anyone willing to
pick me up one?
from the central Indiana area?

Justin
--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 6
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:15:52 EDT
Greetings!!!

It was my understanding that the first run was going to be a Hard Back Edition
and would sell for $25, the second run was not a hard bound and would be
released at $30. (Though the pricing on this is mind boggling)

My distributors did not say anything about 1 hardbound copy per 25 that you
order and I really do not think they would try to pull something like that. It
was a pain to deal with the black and white versions of In Nomine.

I will talk to bothe FASA and my distributors about this and see if I can find
answers :)

-El bandit
Message no. 7
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:02:13 EDT
In a message dated 7/10/98 9:37:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Either that or find someone going to GenCon and convince them to pick up a
> copy for you for $30.
>
> Erik J.
>
Oh yeah, that is possible Erik, sure it is. I can see the time coming now.
Just how many hardbacks are going to for sale at Gencon??? All that are going
to be printed. I have counted almost 30 from just the purchasing between this
list, the GC planning list, and the AOL GIX chat room...

-K
Message no. 8
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:36:12 +0200
peterottwell wrote:

> Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
> I know the bookstores around here dont even have shadow run books, kinda
> stinks.

Same with me...I always order online because to go to the next store it
would be one hour by car...life is unfair ;-)

Blix
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:12:11 -0400
At 04:02 PM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 7/10/98 9:37:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM
>writes:
>
>> Either that or find someone going to GenCon and convince them to pick up a
>> copy for you for $30.
>>
>> Erik J.
>>
>Oh yeah, that is possible Erik, sure it is. I can see the time coming now.
>Just how many hardbacks are going to for sale at Gencon??? All that are
going
>to be printed. I have counted almost 30 from just the purchasing between
this
>list, the GC planning list, and the AOL GIX chat room...

No, not all of the hardbacks printed will be at GenCon. Otherwise, they
wouldn't be able to ship them out to distributors (remember the 1 for every
24 ordered bit?). And they will do what they can to sell those that they
do bring with them, which shouldn't be a problem.

Having *worked* trade shows, you desperately want to get rid of as much of
what you brought with you as possible. You just don't want to carry that
stuff *back* with you. You think it's tiring attending a show? How about
working one.

As I reported to the list earlier, people will be allowed to purchase
multiple copies of SR3, as long as they don't get ridiculous and try to buy
20 or something.

Erik J.

Who's getting very sick of this whole thread...
Message no. 10
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:31:13 -0400
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At 09:06 PM 7/9/98 -0700, peterottwell wrote:
>> The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
>> number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for
that
>> edition.
>
>Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!

Maybe, but since the hardback will apparently have the same catalog
number and ISBN as the softcover, if I order online there's no
guarantee that I'll get the hardback.

If FASA is really is going to distribute this with a 24:1 ratio of
softcover to hardback, under the same ISBN, that'll be a royal pain.
White Wolf is handling the release of the new edition of Vampire: The
Masquerade much better. There is a limited edition version hardcover
with a leatherette cover, silver foil designs, a blood red cloth
bookmark, a supplemental art book, all in a slipcase.

This item is White Wolf Catalog Number 2299, and is a distinct and
seperate product from the unlimited version of the new Vampire
edition, which is catalog number 2300. It's true that you pay $69.95
for the limited edition version, as opposed to $29.95 for the
traditional red rose on green marble unlimited edition, but for people
who want the higher quality, they can specifically request it.


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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 11
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:36:46 -0400
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At 11:27 AM 7/10/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Paul Gettle said on 17:26/9 Jul 98,...
>
>> The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
>> number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for
that
>> edition.
>
>That's exactly what happened with the first and second editions.
>SRII hardback is 7900 while the softback is 7901, and the
>hardback cost US$5 more, IIRC. I bought my SRII hardback in
>early 1993 at a con, from a stand that only sold hardbacks when
>it came to SRII (or so they told me at the time).

Yeah. That system worked great. Does anyone have any hard dirt on the
status of hardcovers, or is it all just rumors an speculation?
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:55:54 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:00 AM 7/10/98 -0400, Erik J. wrote:
>As I understand it, that's rather common practice actually.
Hardbacks cost
>more to produce, which get's passed along to the consumer. A LOT of
SR
>folks will be more than happy to pay ten bucks LESS for the same book
in
>softback.

Yes, and I would rather spend that extra $10 to have a book that the
binding won't disintegrate on after a year of use. What I don't
understand is why FASA would apparently lump the hardcover and
softback under a single catalog number, making it that much harder for
those of us who WANT to give _MORE_MONEY_ to FASA for one of the
hardcovers to be able to request one.

Maybe this is just my own personal point of view, but after having
several core rulebooks for several different game systems, I've
consistantly found that softbacks just aren't durable enough for the
type of use a corebook sees.

>Either that or find someone going to GenCon and convince them to pick
up a
>copy for you for $30.

I've already put in a request with my local gamestore for a hardcover
version, and I feel oblgated to him to wait and see if he can get one
for me. After all, aren't game companies always encouraging us to
"Support Your Local Retailer"? Then FASA turns around and (seemingly)
makes it very hard to get the product I want through my local
retailer, almost forcing me to secure it through other channels.

Does anyone have any hard, specific information on the status of the
hardbacks? A seperate catalog number, or ISBN?
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
Message no. 13
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:33:35 -0400
> At 09:06 PM 7/9/98 -0700, peterottwell wrote:
> >> The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
> >> number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for
> that
> >> edition.
> >
> >Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
>
> Maybe, but since the hardback will apparently have the same catalog
> number and ISBN as the softcover, if I order online there's no
> guarantee that I'll get the hardback.

I called a game shop a few seconds after I read the first message I got
on this thread, and he said they were gunna be getting two or three
copy. I reserved one already, and the dude said he'd call me as soon as
they came in. Seem like the way to go to me...
Message no. 14
From: KzDruid <quicksilver82@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:07:23 -0400
At 10:00 AM 7/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 05:26 PM 7/9/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>>1) that they get 1 HB per 24 ordered (ie the 25th is the HB)
>>
>>I seriously hope that this is not how FASA is going to handle the
>>hardbacks. My local store does not have the customer base to deal in
>>that sort of volume, and I am one of at least two rabid SR players who
>>would not settle for a flimsy paperback.
>
>As I understand it, that's rather common practice actually. Hardbacks cost
>more to produce, which get's passed along to the consumer. A LOT of SR
>folks will be more than happy to pay ten bucks LESS for the same book in
>softback.
<snip about distributers>
>Erik J.

Well, from the looks of the release dates fasa has up at their site for SR3
its going to be a price raise anyway, and i qoute Fasa's release page
<http://www.fasa.com/RelSchedule.html>;
Shadowrun, Third Edition

The popular fantasy cyberpunk game gets updated, revised and improved!
Shadowrun, Third Edition features a
completely new look and feel for today's science-fiction and fantasy fan.
The core rules remain essentially the
same, but are presented in a more user-friendly style that will help new
players understand the game and give
experienced players a fresh angle on their ongoing games. Current
sourcebooks and adventures will be compatible
with Shadowrun, Third Edition. This revision also updates the Shadowrun
timeline, so that the core rulebook is
the only book new players need to begin playing Shadowrun.

Note: The price will change to $30.00 after the first printing.

Stock - #7001
Price - $25.00


----------------------------------------
KzDruid
----------------------------------------
"Behold the power of cheese!"
The dairy farmers association.
----------------------------------------
quicksilver82@*********.com
----------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:26:09 -0300
At 19:36 10/07/98 +0200, you wrote:
>peterottwell wrote:
>
>> Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
>> I know the bookstores around here dont even have shadow run books, kinda
>> stinks.
>
>Same with me...I always order online because to go to the next store it
>would be one hour by car...life is unfair ;-)
>
>Blix
>

I can only get the books from online stores in other countries... It
seems to
me that I have to repeat the word "Shadowrun" three times before the
salesmen understand what I want and sey they don't have it... And that is
in specialized
gaming stores.

Bira
Message no. 16
From: peterottwell <peterottwell@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:55:38 -0700
> > Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
> > I know the bookstores around here dont even have shadow run books,
kinda
> > stinks.
>
> Same with me...I always order online because to go to the next store it
> would be one hour by car...life is unfair ;-)
>
> Blix



What part of the country do you live in. I know that in some citys across
this country have only houses. To shop you have to go hundreds of miles.
Although I live in CT, 8 Large citys and Metros with in 2 hours from my
house, most with in 1 hour. Although I do alot of mailorder .... I couldnt
live with out UPS, is there a UPS in 2058?
Message no. 17
From: peterottwell <peterottwell@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:13:26 -0700
> >> Well, it looks like its time to order from online bookstores!
> >> I know the bookstores around here dont even have shadow run books,
kinda
> >> stinks.
> >
> >Same with me...I always order online because to go to the next store it
> >would be one hour by car...life is unfair ;-)
> >
> >Blix
> >
>
> I can only get the books from online stores in other countries... It
> seems to
> me that I have to repeat the word "Shadowrun" three times before the
> salesmen understand what I want and sey they don't have it... And that is
> in specialized
> gaming stores.
>
> Bira

Salesmen, HA!! Do you know what they get paid! I got the same thing with
the manager of a Book store in a large mall. Had to say Shadow Run 2 to 3
times. After the 3rd time I get tired of asking and Spelled it!
Message no. 18
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:50:13 +0200
peterottwell wrote:

> Salesmen, HA!! Do you know what they get paid! I got the same thing with
> the manager of a Book store in a large mall. Had to say Shadow Run 2 to 3
> times. After the 3rd time I get tired of asking and Spelled it!

That's hard. ;-) The shop I order my shadowrun stuff online at is the same
that's about one hour by car away, but they have just *everything* that has to
do something with role play plus always the newest games there are on the
market! And you don't have to pay postage when ordering per eMail!

Blix
Message no. 19
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback Rant [was: Release date for SR3]
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:42:51 -0500
>>
>>1) that they get 1 HB per 24 ordered (ie the 25th is the HB)
>
>I seriously hope that this is not how FASA is going to handle the
>hardbacks. My local store does not have the customer base to deal in
>that sort of volume, and I am one of at least two rabid SR players who
>would not settle for a flimsy paperback.
>
>The least they could do is give the hardback a different catalog
>number and ISBN, even if it meant they'd have to charge more for that
>edition.
>


FWIW, The Armory has the HB listed at a price of $25 US, though not yet
available, or no cover picture. (www.thearmory.com)

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...

Further Reading

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