Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Hardback suggestion
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:31:31 -0400
Here is a suggestion for the hardbacks that one of you that has an
"in" with FASA should forward to them:

I have heard a lot of grumbling about the availability of the
hardback, which makes me think there is a demand for it. I tend to
think, however, that this demand doesn't extend too far beyond the
die hard membership of this list.

It is for that reason that I think that FASA should come up with some
kind of special offer for list members. I don't have any suggestions
for the logistics, I'll leave that for the marketing professionals at
FASA.

It doesn't even have to be a special price or even regular price; I'm
sure most would pay a little extra just to have guaranteed
availability.

I think that the fanaticism of this list is a known commodity at
FASA, and highly regarded, so much so that we are graced with members
that have written or contributed to sourcebooks and novels (Hi,
Steve, John, and Jak!) who often ask for our input, and allow us to
ask questions of them.

It is a no brainer to me for FASA to give a nod to their biggest fans
and supporters, namely this list, in the form of some type of special
hardback availability.

Just an idea. I look forward to the thoughts on this.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 2
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:27:03 -0400
At 04:31 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Here is a suggestion for the hardbacks that one of you that has an
>"in" with FASA should forward to them:

<friendly radio voice>
Tim, I'm listening.
</friendly radio voice>

>I have heard a lot of grumbling about the availability of the
>hardback, which makes me think there is a demand for it. I tend to
>think, however, that this demand doesn't extend too far beyond the
>die hard membership of this list.

You'd be surprised. I know a few folks off-list that are a mite pissed
about the turn of events.

>It is for that reason that I think that FASA should come up with some
>kind of special offer for list members. I don't have any suggestions
>for the logistics, I'll leave that for the marketing professionals at
>FASA.

I'm a PR professional and I can't say I much like that idea. Comes off
looking very selfish and elitist for RN.

FASA's reasoning is two-fold for this move that they are doing. One is the
obvious business/economic/cost side of things. The other is that they wish
to retain a certain amount of "cool" factor for the GenCon hardbacks. If
their special GenCon hardbacks are suddenly widely available, they aren't
so special, now are they?

They are also resistant to selling the hardback direct, via their website,
because they (justly) fear that doing so would undercut and upset the
retail channel. Don't won't to piss off the folks selling your books.

But you don't want to piss off the folks buying your books either, and
therein lies the tricky part of this equation, coming up with a solution
that makes everyone happy.

I've sent a proposal (yesterday) to FASA and am currently awaiting a
response on an idea that get's around all the negative points and turns
what is a public relations problem into a win-win situation for all sides.
I basically laid out an argument for a special, limited-time offer to sell
a limited quantity of hardbacks via their web site. An offer strictly for
the hardcore fans, many of whom are on this list.

As soon as I hear any additional news, I'll let the list know. And while I
laid out my proposal in a convincing and logical fashion, that's obviously
no guarantee they'll accept my logic.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 3
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:33:03 -0400
On 14 Jul 98, at 17:27, Erik Jameson wrote:

> I've sent a proposal (yesterday) to FASA and am currently awaiting a
> response on an idea that get's around all the negative points and turns
> what is a public relations problem into a win-win situation for all sides.
> I basically laid out an argument for a special, limited-time offer to sell
> a limited quantity of hardbacks via their web site. An offer strictly for
> the hardcore fans, many of whom are on this list.

Hey, 'nuff said, and end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks, Erik.

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 4
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:28:29 +1000
>>It is for that reason that I think that FASA should come up with some
>>kind of special offer for list members. I don't have any suggestions
>>for the logistics, I'll leave that for the marketing professionals at
>>FASA.

Great Idea!!!

>I'm a PR professional and I can't say I much like that idea. Comes off
>looking very selfish and elitist for RN.
>
>FASA's reasoning is two-fold for this move that they are doing. One is the
>obvious business/economic/cost side of things. The other is that they wish
>to retain a certain amount of "cool" factor for the GenCon hardbacks. If
>their special GenCon hardbacks are suddenly widely available, they aren't
>so special, now are they?

Cool Factor! You can't be serious can you.
It's all well and good if you can get in your car
and drive a couple of hours to get to GenCon,
even if you have to fly across country but what
about people who live _outside_ continental USA?

What I'm sick to death of is the GenCon cool factor.
I'd kill you all in an instant to go but for me it would
cost upwards of $10-15,000 to go to GenCon so I
suppose you can see why I'm a little pissed of with
GenCon special offers. Give everyone a fair go for once
and not just bloody Americans and people with strong
exchange rates. :)

>They are also resistant to selling the hardback direct, via their website,
>because they (justly) fear that doing so would undercut and upset the
>retail channel. Don't won't to piss off the folks selling your books.

Easy solution. Get the folks selling your book to sell the hardback as
well. It seems that alot of other game systems are moving their core rules
into hardback, why not Shadowrun. Let the consumer decide. Everyone
I know would go for the hardback seeming as we're looking at a cover
pricew of $65-70 anyway for a kruddy softback in Australia.

>I've sent a proposal (yesterday) to FASA and am currently awaiting a
>response on an idea that get's around all the negative points and turns
>what is a public relations problem into a win-win situation for all sides.
>I basically laid out an argument for a special, limited-time offer to sell
>a limited quantity of hardbacks via their web site. An offer strictly for
>the hardcore fans, many of whom are on this list.

This would be like the Awakening in significance for international gamers
if they went ahead with it. It's not like the foreign purchasers would've
bought
from a US store anyway.

>As soon as I hear any additional news, I'll let the list know. And while I
>laid out my proposal in a convincing and logical fashion, that's obviously
>no guarantee they'll accept my logic.
>
>Erik J.

I'd like to thank Eric for giving this a go. I hope that you succeed omae.

Cheers,
Tim Burke

Brisbane, Australia
ranger@********.com.au
Message no. 5
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:04:48 -0400
Again, quoter's barfed. But still...THANKS ERIK!!!!<leashes the dogs that
were previously running loose, directs them at FASA...>Maybe this'll be
enough pressure. Maneating piranha poodles.:)

John

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 6
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:51:18 -0400
<Snipped cuz quoting BARFED>
Erik, great idea. One problem though is with GMs like me, who don't have
Credit cards(age), and are otherwise restricted in our spending by higher
authorities(AKA parents...mine don't trust me to spend $5, so.....).
Thankfully, it's a once-every-few-years purchase, so it's justified,
given how it'll LAST(Example:A friend's hardback AD&D books have lasted
for 2 years. Softbacks fall apart in 6 mos. with our group(he DMs, will
play in my group).

John

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:07:26 -0400
At 09:33 PM 7/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On 14 Jul 98, at 17:27, Erik Jameson wrote:
>
>> I've sent a proposal (yesterday) to FASA and am currently awaiting a
>> response on an idea that get's around all the negative points and turns
>> what is a public relations problem into a win-win situation for all sides.
>> I basically laid out an argument for a special, limited-time offer to sell
>> a limited quantity of hardbacks via their web site. An offer strictly for
>> the hardcore fans, many of whom are on this list.
>
>Hey, 'nuff said, and end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
>Thanks, Erik.

As I said yesterday, FASA is now aware of the problem. They sort of got
taken by surprise by the reaction and are currently considering their
options. What that means is totally up in the air.

So stay tuned; I've been working with FASA to try and get at least some
hardbacks available for non-GenCon attendees and they seem to at least be
listening to me.

Erik J.

-now with no blink tags!-

http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 8
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:08:02 -0400
At 10:28 PM 7/15/98 +1000, you wrote:

>>FASA's reasoning is two-fold for this move that they are doing. One is the
>>obvious business/economic/cost side of things. The other is that they wish
>>to retain a certain amount of "cool" factor for the GenCon hardbacks.
If
>>their special GenCon hardbacks are suddenly widely available, they aren't
>>so special, now are they?
>
>Cool Factor! You can't be serious can you.

Totally serious. It was intended as a special GenCon promotional item.
Part of their resistance is they don't wish to detract from the "coolness"
of getting something special at GenCon.

>It's all well and good if you can get in your car
>and drive a couple of hours to get to GenCon,
>even if you have to fly across country but what
>about people who live _outside_ continental USA?

I totally agree with you. Generally, poor planning on the part of FASA,
but it's something a *lot* of companies are guilty of. They focus in one
one trade show/convention and put all their promotional effort/money into
one show, when that time and money really could be better served in other
ways.

>What I'm sick to death of is the GenCon cool factor.
>I'd kill you all in an instant to go but for me it would
>cost upwards of $10-15,000 to go to GenCon so I
>suppose you can see why I'm a little pissed of with
>GenCon special offers. Give everyone a fair go for once
>and not just bloody Americans and people with strong
>exchange rates. :)

I'm an American, as are most people on this list, and we are upset also.
Not everyone can either afford or get time off from work to attend. Comic
Con is my big vacation, and it doesn't even involve time off.

>Easy solution. Get the folks selling your book to sell the hardback as
>well

That would involve printing more hardbacks. Removes the specialness of the
GenCon edition and costs mucho grande cash. Both of which FASA is
resistant to.

>It seems that alot of other game systems are moving their core rules
>into hardback, why not Shadowrun

Actually, many are moving towards the less expensive softback books. FASA's
books have had a poor reputation for their binding however, since day one.

>This would be like the Awakening in significance for international gamers
>if they went ahead with it. It's not like the foreign purchasers would've
>bought from a US store anyway.

They don't want to upset any part of their channel, which they are aware of
includes the foreign markets also.

>I'd like to thank Eric for giving this a go. I hope that you succeed omae.

For all of your sake, I hope so too. I've taken care of myself (thanks
Mike!) and I'm doing this work for you folks and for FASA's public image.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 9
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:11:47 +0200
Tim Kerby wrote:

> It doesn't even have to be a special price or even regular price; I'm
> sure most would pay a little extra just to have guaranteed
> availability.
>
> I think that the fanaticism of this list is a known commodity at
> FASA, and highly regarded, so much so that we are graced with members
> that have written or contributed to sourcebooks and novels (Hi,
> Steve, John, and Jak!) who often ask for our input, and allow us to
> ask questions of them.
>
> It is a no brainer to me for FASA to give a nod to their biggest fans
> and supporters, namely this list, in the form of some type of special
> hardback availability.

Will there be Hardbacks of the German version? If so, will this version be
published at the same time or noticeable later?

Blix
Message no. 10
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:01:26 -0400
At 06:11 PM 7/15/98 +0200, you wrote:

>Will there be Hardbacks of the German version? If so, will this version be
>published at the same time or noticeable later?

I have no clue. I believe that would be up to the folks that hold the
German license for Shadowrun.

I would suggest trying to get a hold of the folks that did Deutschland in
den Schatten and asking them. It's almost certainly in their hands.

But don't expect a new German edition anywhere near the same time as the
English one. Gotta be translated you know.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 11
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Hardback suggestion
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:06:09 +0200
Erik Jameson wrote:

> But don't expect a new German edition anywhere near the same time as the
> English one. Gotta be translated you know.

My shadowrun shop told me that it would be out by decembre. (Yoopieh!!!)

Blix

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Hardback suggestion, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!